Inquiry is usark scamming the reptile industry

[rodneynboalich]

the title of this thread is. is usark scaming the industry. lets look at the ban.
1 the ban was passed with snakes on the list that make no sense for being on the list at all.
2 usark tried to claim a victory when that was roundly rejected by most of the reptile community they took 3 days to response because they didnt know what to say.
3 when they did respond they said they were going to look into how to fight this. they should done that a long time ago. they knew that this bill was going to pass and they didnt even begin to try and prepare for it if it did pass.
4 so after they tell us they will try to fight it but first they will need $150,000 to do so and they said this right after they said they would look into fighting it.

they asked for $150,000 before they even offered up a game plan. who dose that. who says give me a $150,000 and we will start looking into things. when your asking for that kind of money you better have some kind of plan to offer up to get support for you endeavor.

5 the email that started my battle with usark. they sent us an email saying dangerous animal legislation in the following states PA OH and 4 or 5 more.

ok they didnt come out and say there was any proposed legislation but it was implied. and they used zainsville situation as a scare tactic for ohio and all the states right around it to get people to donate from those states.

the thing is there is no proposed anti reptile legislation in PA my state. i checked. only two people trying to set up a bill to propose and their biggest allies( the fish and game) said they want nothing to do with them.

usark used the zainsville incident and an email implying anti reptile legislation to scare people into donating

it just amasses me that you all are so unwilling to question usark. they didnt even think to at least think up a plan or what to do if the ban passed and your all ready to give them $150,000 so they can look into the matter. really.

what if they try to fight it and it dosnt work and then they need to try something else. will they need another $150,000 to do so.

where dose it end and where do some good planning begin.

pijac already said they do not plan to fight the python ban. if you dont believe me feel free to look into it.

keep in mind usark needs to raise that $150,000 and get an injunction file to stop the bill from taking affect, and they only have 60 days.

it took them 12 months to raise $300,000 and $100,000 came from zoo med.

im just pointing out everybody is saying we need to give $150,000 usark when they didnt even think to plan for something that was very foreseeable.


and why $150,000. are they out of money. what about all the money that has been donated in the last 3 months. is it spent already. is it all gone. is usark are broke.

i find it hard to believe usark dosnt have any money reserved to get things rolling on this right away. considering they were one of first to know it got passed.

they should have came out that day and with a plan for the fight in court and instead they claimed a 5 out 9 victory

 

[minguss]

You may not like USARK, but unfortunately $150,000 dollars to "start" a lawsuit isn't going to get raised by any other reptile organization and even if someone out of nowhere could raise that kind of money would they even know where to start navigating a case like this?

Take your choice:
A. Do nothing and let the bill go into affect
B. Join USARK and donate to let them try and fight this
C. Join rodney in ranting and raving to other herp people about how bad USARK is (ultimately option A, but you'll get a huge post count boost!)

Even though it would have little affect on me personally at this point I'm going with Option B.

I choice B
I ahve said in other forums I am moving forward wiht my projects and continue to support USARK.
I jsut renewed my member ship.

the title of this thread is. is usark scaming the industry. lets look at the ban.
1 the ban was passed with snakes on the list that make no sense for being on the list at all.
2 usark tried to claim a victory when that was roundly rejected by most of the reptile community they took 3 days to response because they didnt know what to say.
3 when they did respond they said they were going to look into how to fight this. they should done that a long time ago. they knew that this bill was going to pass and they didnt even begin to try and prepare for it if it did pass.
4 so after they tell us they will try to fight it but first they will need $150,000 to do so and they said this right after they said they would look into fighting it.

they asked for $150,000 before they even offered up a game plan. who dose that. who says give me a $150,000 and we will start looking into things. when your asking for that kind of money you better have some kind of plan to offer up to get support for you endeavor.

5 the email that started my battle with usark. they sent us an email saying dangerous animal legislation in the following states PA OH and 4 or 5 more.

ok they didnt come out and say there was any proposed legislation but it was implied. and they used zainsville situation as a scare tactic for ohio and all the states right around it to get people to donate from those states.

the thing is there is no proposed anti reptile legislation in PA my state. i checked. only two people trying to set up a bill to propose and their biggest allies( the fish and game) said they want nothing to do with them.

usark used the zainsville incident and an email implying anti reptile legislation to scare people into donating

it just amasses me that you all are so unwilling to question usark. they didnt even think to at least think up a plan or what to do if the ban passed and your all ready to give them $150,000 so they can look into the matter. really.

what if they try to fight it and it dosnt work and then they need to try something else. will they need another $150,000 to do so.

where dose it end and where do some good planning begin.

pijac already said they do not plan to fight the python ban. if you dont believe me feel free to look into it.

keep in mind usark needs to raise that $150,000 and get an injunction file to stop the bill from taking affect, and they only have 60 days.

it took them 12 months to raise $300,000 and $100,000 came from zoo med.

im just pointing out everybody is saying we need to give $150,000 usark when they didnt even think to plan for something that was very foreseeable.


and why $150,000. are they out of money. what about all the money that has been donated in the last 3 months. is it spent already. is it all gone. is usark are broke.

i find it hard to believe usark dosnt have any money reserved to get things rolling on this right away. considering they were one of first to know it got passed.

they should have came out that day and with a plan for the fight in court and instead they claimed a 5 out 9 victory

We already know where te expanses go. there tax document has already been posted. Layers cost money.Simple case can run run a few thousand dollars. Big cases like this is big money. I am sure it will be milllions before it is done. Sad that they have raised so little money in the last year. If we as a comminty pull together, the 80,000 some of us here all donate just $10 that is over $800K. Now if we can do that monthly in a year we would raise over $9.5 million. Now that would be awesome and let us really compete with the AR wakos, HSUS and the like.

 

[EvilLost]

please people stay on topic if you want to tell me im and idiot or call me any other names that you cant on here feel free to do so on my facebook page. you can say whatever you want to me on there. facebook unlike fauna still supports the 1st amendment

loooool.....

if you wish to assert your rights, maybe you should learn what they are first?

this is a private forum and if you want to post here you have to abide by the private rules...there is no first amendment here.

 

[bobtard]

loooool.....

if you wish to assert your rights, maybe you should learn what they are first?

this is a private forum and if you want to post here you have to abide by the private rules...there is no first amendment here.

Pretty sure Facebook is a private website too, no first ammendment rights there, either. They can kick you off whenever they please.

 

[crotalusadamanteus]

Show me where USARK was compromising.

I'll tell you where I think they compromised. They've received over 100k from us so far, and yet only NOW that it's gone National do they talk about needing another 150K for a law suit. For what? They have no more evidence now, of the feds not following their own laid out rules, and due process, then they had when the ruling was made in Florida. Why wasn't that money put towards initiating a lawsuit back then? I'll tell you why. They compromised. Figuring, it only effects Floridians, the rest of you won. Did we?

If a law suit is warranted NOW then it was warranted back then also. Some of us asked for financial reports, what we got was numbers reflecting how much was donated, but I still don't see anything showing what that money was spent on.

People want to say " so what if he pocketed a little for himself, he's the only fight we have". Well, until I see just HOW MUCH was pocketed, vs HOW MUCH went to fight this, then I myself can't agree with that. That's like saying, " we rallied 200K for this fight. Go ahead and pocket 150K of that for your efforts, and use the rest to fight with". Until we see those numbers, we DO NOT know, and are ALL assuming.

And THAT is my beef. I don't keep burms or any of the others that this effected. I also don't need to sell, because this is my hobby and I work for a living. All I have donated, and all the time spreading the word was for those of you that DO keep them, which happens to include some close friends of mine, who now DO NOT have the means to feed their families or pay their mortgages.

People have a right to question. They have a right to be angry. Some may very well LOSE THEIR HOMES over this blatant misuse of the system by the feds. They also have the right to question whether or not USARK actually did all they could do with OUR hard earned money, or whether they compromised with the fascist officials on the hill, just to make a show.

I for one WILL NOT sit blindly and accept everything at face value. Lobbyist are just that, lobbyist. There is big money in it, or they wouldn't be there.

 

[hhmoore]

I may be mistaken, but I don't believe there was any grounds for a lawsuit until there was an official action (ie, adding the snakes to the injurious wildlife list). The action by the State of Florida was in response to an actual problem - no need for science...manufactured, or otherwise - and the State's action wasn't really an inappropriate one, regardless of how much we hate the government restricting our hobbies/business.
I'm all for some financial disclosure, but with USARK not participating in this thread, it's unlikely that we'll see it. Has anybody even advised them of this thread? I suspect that the USARK representatives come, post their updates in the legislative section, and go on their way.

 

[Robert Potts]

The amount of money being suggested is almost a waste. May I remind you we're playing the game on the same level as companies who have hundreds of billions of dollars in revenue therefore think nothing of throwing $25-$35-$50 million dollars at certain elected officials in Washington to get their way. Literally hundreds of millions of dollars are in constant motion and that's what actually gets things accomplished. So by default the elected officials who actively participate in the system won't get off the crapper for less than $10 or $20 million. Start waving that kind of incentive around the great halls of Washington and in no time you'll have about dozen or more Congressman and 2 or 3 Senators lapping at your heels. Hell throw enough money and I bet we can get a law passed making it mandatory to own at least two reptiles.

 

[rodneynboalich]

I may be mistaken, but I don't believe there was any grounds for a lawsuit until there was an official action (ie, adding the snakes to the injurious wildlife list). The action by the State of Florida was in response to an actual problem - no need for science...manufactured, or otherwise - and the State's action wasn't really an inappropriate one, regardless of how much we hate the government restricting our hobbies/business.
I'm all for some financial disclosure, but with USARK not participating in this thread, it's unlikely that we'll see it. Has anybody even advised them of this thread? I suspect that the USARK representatives come, post their updates in the legislative section, and go on their way.

usark isnt going to come on here when im on here they dont want to have to deal with what im saying and the worse part is they dont think they need to answer anybody, not just me, its the whole reptile industry they are ignoring us all.

im all for working with people to try to set up a game plan on the state level. i think the industry needs a national organization like usark,but run better. but the truth is usark and andrew wyatt cant be everywhere at once. if one of the mods would like to start a thread to really try to get some ideas together i will be happy to help and get as many people involved as possible and i promise ill behave.

look whats going on in VA and usark is nowhere to be found. people need to stop depending on usark to solve all their problems

 

[AW2EOD]

usark isnt going to come on here when im on here they dont want to have to deal with what im saying and the worse part is they dont think they need to answer anybody, not just me, its the whole reptile industry they are ignoring us all.

I'm pretty sure it's just them, not wanting to waste their time, on a laughable waste of space like yourself Rodney.

A large number of us have talked to Andrew in the last week. He's busy with things that make sense...there's no point in taking the time to read your thread, where you have done nothing but ramble and hide, when asked for evidence.

For the third time, I'm going to ask this question.

Rodney Boalich...are you planning on attending NARBC, in Tinley Park, in March???

As I've already stated...you're leading the witch hunt, against USARK. You say you have better ideas. Well, I've already told you who will be attending (the major players in this hobby) and what better way to get us all to sit down and get a game plan together? Whadda ya say?

 

[crotalusadamanteus]

I may be mistaken, but I don't believe there was any grounds for a lawsuit until there was an official action (ie, adding the snakes to the injurious wildlife list). The action by the State of Florida was in response to an actual problem - no need for science...manufactured, or otherwise - and the State's action wasn't really an inappropriate one, regardless of how much we hate the government restricting our hobbies/business.
I'm all for some financial disclosure, but with USARK not participating in this thread, it's unlikely that we'll see it. Has anybody even advised them of this thread? I suspect that the USARK representatives come, post their updates in the legislative section, and go on their way.

That, IMO, depends on what they use as a reason for the law suit. So far over the years it's been all about accusing them of not following guidelines laid out by themselves, ie, scientific evidence presented, and used against us, that hasn't undergone proper scientific review, as required by they themselves.

If that's the case, the reason for the lawsuit has been there the whole time.

Now however, there is a bit of a new twist because of it going National. Now they are violating peoples rights under the constitution. The federal government does not have the authority to regulate anything interstate, unless it involves COMMERCE. They have no interstate authority beyond that, under the tenth amendment.

I could be wrong too. But this is how I understand it to be.

 

[paulWTAMU]

hmm....you know this is settled case law right?

Seriously. The commerce clause has been the subject of probably more SCOTUS cases than any other part of the Constitution. Under Wickard v Filburn (1942) activities with a substantial impact on interstate may be regulated under the commerce clause EVEN IF no interstate commercial transaction can take place. This has been upheld several times, most recently in Gonzales v. Raich. It's hard to argue that the ability to move things between states doesn't substantially impact interstate commerce, even without a commercial transaction--it'll have an impact on supply and demand after all.

 

[paulWTAMU]

You might also look at the Migratory Bird Act and Missouri v Holland for precedent in how environmental law has been handled with the Commerce Clause...

 

[WebSlave]

Well, yeah....

If we go by the government's own preferred definition of the commerce clause, it goes something like this:

"Since any and every citizen has the ability to travel across state lines to engage in commerce, or sell commercial goods across state lines, or in any way influence any and all aspects of other citizens' interstate commercial activities, then the power granted to us via the US Constitution allows us to control absolutely every aspect of every citizen's lives."

 

[crotalusadamanteus]

Well, yeah....

If we go by the government's own preferred definition of the commerce clause, it goes something like this:

"Since any and every citizen has the ability to travel across state lines to engage in commerce, or sell commercial goods across state lines, or in any way influence any and all aspects of other citizens' interstate commercial activities, then the power granted to us via the US Constitution allows us to control absolutely every aspect of every citizen's lives."

 

[Metachrosis]

 

[paulWTAMU]

I'm just pointing out settled case law. Hoping to get this overturned on the grounds it violates the Constitution is tilting at windmills and a waste of energy and effort that could go towards things that at least have a snowballs chance in hell.

 

[HerpVenue]

absolutely no problem.

Now where was your solid proof that

1. USARK threw us under the bus
2. USARK was scamming people
3. USARK compromised on this ban
4. USARK compromised one animal for another in their model legislation
5. USARK was pushing the idea of compromising one animal for another in the months leading to the ban
6. USARK was scamming the industry
7. USARK is trying to get animals banned in Ohio

You see Rodney. This is what I am talking about. I asked for an example of how USARK threw us under the bus. YOur answer is because there are snakes on the ban that should not be there.

Didn't we already discuss this? Do you read anything? Do you comprehend anything? Do you retain anything in that head of yours? We fought the ban in its entirety. I included links to their positions papers and links to the e-mails that you yourself signed. Did you not read what you signed? I included links to the oposition thingking that USARK was going to be successful in fighting the WHOLE ban. I say again. Even our enemies thought we were going to be successful in fighting the whole thing.

So I will not even address the rest of your post. You keep spewing the same thing.

You had a question. You were answered with the truth. But you did not like it. Why? Because you are really here to try and get members from USARK over to your little group that did nothing to fight this ban. It is quite obvious.
All your questions have been answered but you still prefer not to see them. You ask why the 4 animals were banned. We gave you links as to why. You said you will read it. 5 hours later you ask the same question again. Here we are 2 days later and the still have the same questions as to why the 4 animals were banned

You are nothing but a TROLL
You are nothing but some guy trying to break USARK up
You are nothing but a guy who uses FAUNA for his own purposes and then complains about it.
You are nothing but a guy who asks questions and then when someone answers he whines that he is getting attacked.

You are so lucky. If I was mod I would have just banned your butt? Would I ban you for censure? Heck no. I would ban you for the obvious troll and the obvious scourge to the reptile communty that you are.

You keep asking the same questions. We keep answering. over and over and over.

Do yourself a favor. Read this whole thread from the first post to the last. When you have a question, you will find the answer somewhere in there.

I am okay with you claiming things against USARk. But for goodness sake, bring some facts. Hard cold FACTS. NOT you twisted interpretation of what happened.

 

[HerpVenue]

I'll tell you where I think they compromised. They've received over 100k from us so far, and yet only NOW that it's gone National do they talk about needing another 150K for a law suit. For what? They have no more evidence now, of the feds not following their own laid out rules, and due process, then they had when the ruling was made in Florida. Why wasn't that money put towards initiating a lawsuit back then? I'll tell you why. They compromised. Figuring, it only effects Floridians, the rest of you won. Did we?

If a law suit is warranted NOW then it was warranted back then also. Some of us asked for financial reports, what we got was numbers reflecting how much was donated, but I still don't see anything showing what that money was spent on.

People want to say " so what if he pocketed a little for himself, he's the only fight we have". Well, until I see just HOW MUCH was pocketed, vs HOW MUCH went to fight this, then I myself can't agree with that. That's like saying, " we rallied 200K for this fight. Go ahead and pocket 150K of that for your efforts, and use the rest to fight with". Until we see those numbers, we DO NOT know, and are ALL assuming.

And THAT is my beef. I don't keep burms or any of the others that this effected. I also don't need to sell, because this is my hobby and I work for a living. All I have donated, and all the time spreading the word was for those of you that DO keep them, which happens to include some close friends of mine, who now DO NOT have the means to feed their families or pay their mortgages.

People have a right to question. They have a right to be angry. Some may very well LOSE THEIR HOMES over this blatant misuse of the system by the feds. They also have the right to question whether or not USARK actually did all they could do with OUR hard earned money, or whether they compromised with the fascist officials on the hill, just to make a show.

I for one WILL NOT sit blindly and accept everything at face value. Lobbyist are just that, lobbyist. There is big money in it, or they wouldn't be there.

Instead of trying to reason it out. Instead of using the proper steps in addressing government concerns, you just want to skip everything and go straight to a lawsuit which will cost more?

I say lawsuits are a last resort. We are now on our last resort.

As far as wanting to know what was spent and where. I think someone already posted the links in this thread.

Oh yeah. the correct keywords and you can see which members of congress USARK has met with and when etc etc etc etc.

 

[HerpVenue]

http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h2811/money

Specific Organizations Opposing H.R.2811

California Reptile and Invertebrate Society
Pet Industry Joint Advisory Council (PIJAC)
pethobbyist.com
Responsible Exotic Animal Ownership
united states association of reptile keepers

Where is Terry and his cohorts?

 

[crotalusadamanteus]

Instead of trying to reason it out. Instead of using the proper steps in addressing government concerns, you just want to skip everything and go straight to a lawsuit which will cost more?

I say lawsuits are a last resort. We are now on our last resort.

As far as wanting to know what was spent and where. I think someone already posted the links in this thread.

Oh yeah. the correct keywords and you can see which members of congress USARK has met with and when etc etc etc etc.

In this case Richie, YES. I believe in due process, BUT, when the federal government ignores it, why should we follow it to try and stop them? Fight fire with fire, fight terrorism with terrorism, fight the US government with the same tactics they use, which is finding a way around the rules.

Perhaps I'm just a little biased though, because personally, I am sick of their intervention in matters that they should have no say so in, and I'm willing, able and ready for the needed revolution that it will take to stop them, and get things back to the basics.