Inquiry Mitch Behm (global captive breeders)

[Behmfamily]

Thanks Mike. Same from this end.

Mitch

 

[Melinda]

I bought a MBK a couple years ago and it is one of my favorite snakes. Healthy, great eater. Shipping and communication were great too.

 

[Behmfamily]

Thank you Melinda

Mitch

 

[SirenSanJose]

I bought a third KSB at the Super Show in August to add to the two I bought earlier this year. Lovely little snow female. She's beautiful, healthy, and thriving for me. The staff again put up with me badgering them with questions about genetics and sexing. I'm thrilled to death with my sand boas, and Global Captive Breeders has been wonderful to me.

 

[Behmfamily]

Thank you Diana.

Mitch

 

[nickstone]

I did a trade with Mitch at the Sacramento show a few weeks ago. The monitor I got from him ended up dying a few days later. I understand the risk in getting imported animals, but sent him an email to see what his policy was. I was totally shocked when he replied he would be happy to replace it.

He's always answered my emails promptly and returned my calls. I've also spoken with an employee named Daniel a few times and he has always been very polite, professional and more than willing to help in any way he could.

It's very easy for people to get good feedback when no issues pop up in a transaction, but in my opinion it speaks volumes more about somebody when something goes wrong and they take care of the situation the way that Mitch and Daniel did with my recent transaction.

I would not hesitate to do business with Global Captive Breeders in the future, and am actually looking forward to it. Thanks again guys. Nick Stone

 

[Eric Walker]

thanks everyone for the input

hay mitch, still no website for GCB ?

 

[Behmfamily]

Thanks Nick. The GCB website is a major undertaking, some 30,000 pages. We took some facilities pics yesterday.

Mitch

 

[pch101]

Pygmy Blue-tongues? Nowthat's just going too far.

Back in July a friend sent me a photo of some Melanistic Blue-tongued Skinks, and told me that Global Reptile Breeders had them up for sale. It turns out that they are located about 1 hour away from me. I called Mitch on the phone to find out more. When we talked, I told him I was interested in the project, and asked for any details. He told me that he has Melanistic, Leucistic, Albino, and Caramels (not to be confused with the caramel Northern line I started years ago) Blue-tongues, and that they are all $10,000 a pair. He said they are of Indonesian origin, but alluded to them being bred here in captivity. That being said, he was very vague, and he did not seem to very interested in providing breeding background on the animals or any other information about them, nor did he seem to know any anything at all about the Taxonomy of the Tiliqua in Indonesia, just that they were from Indonesia (making them Indonesians in his mind). In addition, he was actually quite rude, and when I asked for photos of the parents and for photo examples of the other morphs he claimed to have, he abruptly interrupted me, saying that he is from the east coast, and he does not want to mess around. He said that he was not interested in talking about them if I was not going to buy any. He also said he was not interested in sending any photos to "photo collectors". What a nice guy...Right??? Anyway, after assuring him that I was serious, he agreed to send me photos. That being said, the photos were never sent, and now that the initial excitement over these skinks has passed, I am glad that I did not deal with him. There were just way too many red flags with that conversation. Especially for a first contact.

Anyway, someone else just recently brought these animals to my attention again wanting to know more about them. I responded with what I knew, and I then went to the Global Reptile Breeders website to see if I could get any more information. I went to “Reptiles” and then clicked on “skinks”, only to see a coming soon list. See the following link: http://globalcaptivebreeders.com/Skinks.html
While many of the Australian species and subspecies that were listed there might seem pretty suspicious in regard to their legality, there is one listed there that really stuck out. The Pygmy Blue-tongued Skink (Tiliqua adelaidensis) was considered to be extinct by the early 1960s, and was only recently rediscovered approximately 30 years later on Oct. 14, 1992 when two Biologists, conducting a fauna survey near the township of Burra, found a large adult male in the stomach contents of a road-killed Eastern Brown Snake (Pseudonaja textiles) that they were examining.

I am sure many of us here know that many rare Australian reptiles eventually make it into the reptile trade by being smuggled into Europe (often Germany) and then being "legalized" by claiming they are captive bred from stock that traces back to wild collected stock that was imported BEFORE the early 1970s Australian wildlife importation/exportation ban went into effect. Sadly, this happens quite often, as it is relatively easy to create papers and receipt trails to support the fake claims. Proving these cases is not easy, and often not a priority, as it is not a serious crime in many European countries, making it well worth the while for those involved. In short, this is basically a shady loophole that is often used to get sought after Australian Reptiles into the European market and then on into the US hobby.

So what exactly is so different about the situation with the Pygmy BTS? The answer is simple. There is simply NO WAY anyone can claim that any specimen of Tiliqua adelaidensis, currently in captivity outside of Australia, traces back to captive stock that was legally collected and exported out of Australia before the early 1970s import/export ban, because they were thought to be extinct for over 10 years before the Australian import/export ban ever went into effect. They were not rediscovered until 1992 (20 years after the ban), removing the benefit of the doubt that is so often given to the many European dealers that offer us all of the other sought after Aussie herps that we love so much here in the US. This proves without a doubt, that any specimens of the Pygmy BTS (Tiliqua adelaidensis) offered for sale are illegally obtained smuggled animals that are impossible to "legalize" in the way that is so often done with other high dollar Australian reptiles. In short, the game does not work with these guys. If Mitch really is getting Pygmy BTS, then he will have illegal black market animals, and that should be enough to scare any sensible perspective buyers running in the other direction.

 

[Behmfamily]

James,

That section that you looked at is for species identification and care sheets, not animals for sale. Animals for sale are listed in the Store or in Kingsnake.com ads. I'll chalk this up to too much St. Patrick's Day celebrating.

Mitch

 

[Wilomn]

James,

That section that you looked at is for species identification and care sheets, not animals for sale. Animals for sale are listed in the Store or in Kingsnake.com ads. I'll chalk this up to too much St. Patrick's Day celebrating.

Mitch

You can chalk it up to whatever you like; however, James is one of the most knowledgeable Blue Tongue keepers and breeders in the USA.

How about you post up some of those photos of all the morphs you purport to have? And even if they've been sold, I'd still like to see the pictures you no doubt took at some point during their stay in your care.

Some of remember what a high falootin snob you were a few years ago who then, as well as now apparently, thought laws didn't apply to you because of all the cash you had to throw around. Weren't you going to be doing some fantastic things with Eastern Indigos? What ever happened with that, by the way?

 

[Behmfamily]

Wes, its been a while. Did you just get released? Welcome back. Money bothers you, doesn't it? Try working for a living instead of reaching 7,000 posts.

 

[Wilomn]

Wes, its been a while. Did you just get released? Welcome back. Money bothers you, doesn't it? Try working for a living instead of reaching 7,000 posts.

How about answering the questions you've been asked? I can't find anything even remotely resembling an answer. I see two really stupid questions and a couple of statements that have nothing to do with various legal issues you may or may not have, but that's it.

Are you declining to answer? And if so, why?

 

[pch101]

That section that you looked at is for species identification and care sheets, not animals for sale. Animals for sale are listed in the Store or in Kingsnake.com ads.Mitch

Who in the world would ever need care sheets or species identification on Tiliqua adelaidensis? Last time I checked there were only seven specimens in captivity, all of which are in Australia (1 at the South Australia Museum and 6 at the Adelaide Zoo), and I am pretty sure they have a handle on the husbandry and identification.

Anyway, you just keep sticking to that story, and in the mean time maybe you will consider treating prospective buyers with some appreciation instead of like dirt.

I'll chalk this up to too much St. Patrick's Day celebrating. Mitch

I guess that could be the case if you set up your website on a previous St. Patrick's Day.

PS. I personally do not care where you are from, but last time I checked lake Elsinore was in So-Cal on the west coast. Ever hear the saying: "When in Rome..." ?

 

[Behmfamily]

Have you seen my facility in Lake Elsinore or my personal collection? When I needed info on rare species, do you think that anyone outside of this small Fauna universe knows that James Wilson knows everything about one or two Genus? Or that Wes is the FWC King?Where is the central source? None exists. As far as treating you like dirt, I can smell know-it-alls and troublemakers within 2 minutes on the phone. As I did with you. Did I hurt your feelings? I must have, if you took the time to write that long post and accuse me of being a smuggler?

Mitch

 

[pch101]

Have you seen my facility in Lake Elsinore or my personal collection?Mitch

I am not interested in importers... Especially smug delusional ones.

When I needed info on rare species, do you think that anyone outside of this small Fauna universe knows that James Wilson knows everything about one or two Genus?Mitch

This makes no sense? Try again. In addition, do not presume to know anything about me. Because you don't. That being said, there are many circles outside of Fauna that know me well enough, and if you were half as smart as you think you are you would do what you could to avoid popping up on their radar.

Or that Wes is the FWC King?Mitch

Once again, what??? How can you start a sentence with the word "Or"?

What are you talking about? You are seriously starting to sound confused..

I think that you were more likely smelling the dead and dying wc imports from your facility that you try to pass off as captive bred. I must say you calling me calling me a know it all or a trouble maker is pretty ironic. It sure made for a good laugh though. Thanks for that.

No, you kept me from making a huge mistake, and in the process, you saved me a large amount of money. I sincerely thank you for that. I guess I owe you.

Do not flatter yourself. Also, please take note that I never called you a smuggler. I simply said if you had any Pygmy BTS, that they would have to be illegal black market animals, and there is no debating that.

 

[Behmfamily]

I think that anyone who reads your long point-by-point posts understands what your about. "Circles outside of Fauna..." are you kidding. Are you talking about the other 4 people that know where every Pygmy BTS that ever lived, resides? You're too funny...

Mitch

 

[Wilomn]

Yo mitchy the kid, you seem to be reluctant to answer some very simple questions. What's up with that? Have you told some lies? Well, we know you have in the past, I suppose I should be asking if you've told more lies.

So, how about it there mitch. Have you been stretching the truth a bit? Or maybe done something a tad illegal? What ever did happen to your grand indigo plans? And what's the deal the the tiliqua?

 

[Behmfamily]

Ok Wes, I decided that mass production of Indigos were extremely difficult. In fact, I believe that they require too much maintainence for the average keeper. So, I decided on GTPs instead. Last year alone, I sold almost 800 baby GTPs at prices considerably lower than anyone else. Now, selling more animals than anyone at any West Coast SHow, there seems to be very little negative feedback except for dirtbags like you and your jealous friends.

Face it Wes, you're the King of Reptile Mites, annoying but easily neutralized. As to the Tiliqua, as James said, there's only a few in existence and he knows where they all are. Usually, the people pointing the finger are the offenders. What are you and James hiding?

Mitch

 

[Wilomn]

Face it Wes, you're the King of Reptile Mites, annoying but easily neutralized. As to the Tiliqua, as James said, there's only a few in existence and he knows where they all are. Usually, the people pointing the finger are the offenders. What are you and James hiding?

Mitch

Ohhhh mitchy, is that the best you can do?

I suppose I should tell you to put up or shut up, but I can't seem to muster the energy.

Then again, since you made the aquisition, put up or shut up. I'm also sort of skeptical that you sold that many chondros. Of course, me personally, knowing you as well as I do, just from the forums, think you're a total lying ...guy.

You go right ahead and do your little dance. I pull the strings and you dance dance dance. Same ol same ol.