Bad Guy DubiDeli - Live Arrival Guarantee??

[JCarter]

I ordered some bugs from dubideli and granted it was a small order, I am totally displeased and frustrated with the transaction. The estimated count for my order was 200 + overcount. What I received was approx. 80-100 and all of them arrived dead. I immediately made contact with dubideli to try and resolve this issue and Rob agreed to send a 2nd package to satisfy the live arrival guarantee. 2nd package was supposed to be here on 3/22/12, but has yet to arrive. I've explained to dubideli that after this latest debacle I would like a refund and he agreed, but only if I send the 2nd package back. Kind of hard to do beings that I never received that 2nd package.

I've attached a screenshot of the tracking information.

Email traffic (read from the bottom up):

From: [email protected] [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2012 22:18:21 -0400
Subject: Re: Recent Order

Yes you did say you would pay return shipping if I would agree to send it
back. I did agree:

"On Sun, Mar 18, 2012 at 11:00 AM, [email protected] <
[email protected]> wrote:
*Yes. We can do that.*

On Sat, Mar 17, 2012 at 5:03 PM, Robert Riesenman
<[email protected]>wrote:

> Since they are all dead we can ship you out another order. I would like
> to inspect the order. We will pay you to ship the product back to us. Can
> you do that?"


You never again mentioned anything about me returning the package to you or
making arrangements for me to do so. You chose to send out a 2nd package in
order to make it right and it would have IF we would ever received the 2nd
package and the bugs were alive, but judging by our only experience with
you I doubt they will be.

As for whether or not it's your fault, that remains to be seen considering
you admitted "They died because something happened during shipping not due
to time of shipping." I don't know what you mean by something happened
during shipping, but you offer a live arrival guarantee and the bugs
arrived here dead. Sounds to me if it's not due to time in transit it would
have to be how they were shipped which is the shipper's responsibility.

As for the tracking information it does not say it was delivered on
3/22/12. It says that it went out for delivery on 3/22/12 and hasn't been
updated since. Last time I checked delivery confirmation means that
delivery would be CONFIRMED, not not updated.

As I said before, I would love to send the 2nd package back and will do so
if and when they get here, but in the mean time I would appreciate a prompt
refund of my money. If you don't intend on making good on a live arrival
guarantee then I would recommend you not offer such a policy.

Jonathan




On Fri, Mar 23, 2012 at 9:49 PM, <[email protected]> wrote:

> I'm really not sure why you are upset with us. I agree something happened
> to your order and we sent you out a new one free of charge. Every other
> breeder would charge the shipping cost, we don't. The first package I
> wanted you to ship back so I could look at it and figure out what went
> wrong. I can't tell that without the package and bugs in hand. I was
> even going to pay for it, I told you this.
>
>
> I can't call the PO today because they are already closed by the time you
> notified us. You are 3 hours ahead so I didn't want to get up at 5am to
> make the call, but I will now. I will call them tomorrow. This is not
> our fault but you are treating us like it is. This I don't understand. You
> can tell from the shipping that it was shipped and looks to have been
> delivered but I won't know until I talk to PO tomorrow. How is this our
> fault?
>
> I never refused to give you a refund. When did I say that? I said, I
> will give you a refund when I get the second package back that is somewhere
> on the east coast and according to the information on the tracking was
> delivered on 3/22/12.
>
>
> Rob,
> www.dubideli.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: Recent Order
> From: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
> Date: Fri, March 23, 2012 5:31 pm
> To: Robert Riesenman <[email protected]>
>
> I can call the post office tomorrow. I've attached a screenshot of the
> tracking info.
>
> This is getting to be a bit ridiculous. As I said before, I just want my
> money back. You said you will refund me after I ship the roaches back to
> you, but if they don't arrive it's kind of difficult for me to do that
> wouldn't you say?
>
> When I ordered from you I thought it would be an easy transaction. I pay
> you, you send me some roaches. What has happened thus far has proven to be
> anything but easy. The first shipment arrived with under half of what the
> estimated count was supposed to be and they were all dead as well. You
> shipped a second order, but they apparently have been lost in the mail and
> it's up to me to contact the post office to investigate? I ask you for a
> refund as I am totally displeased with your product and you refuse to give
> me a refund until I return some dead roaches and a 2nd package that as yet
> has not arrived?
>
> I feel that I have been patient throughout this whole transaction, but am
> beginning to lose what little patience I have left. Without some sort of
> resolution I will file a complaint with paypal and post a thread on the BOI
> on Fauna.com. I'm not out to intentionally bash you or tarnish your
> reputation/name. I only want my money back as I have not received what I
> paid for and am uncertain that I will.
>
> Thank you for your time,
>
> Jonathan
>
> On Fri, Mar 23, 2012 at 7:49 PM, Robert Riesenman <[email protected]>wrote:
>
>> Can u call your PO? What does tracking say?
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mar 23, 2012, at 2:34 PM, "[email protected]" <
>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> They still did not arrive today.
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 23, 2012 at 1:13 PM, Robert Riesenman <[email protected]>wrote:
>>
>>> They died because something happened during shipping not due to time of
>>> shipping.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mar 23, 2012, at 7:12 AM, "[email protected]" <
>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>> If the first shipment were all dead after 3 days of shipping, how do you
>>> think this one will survive 5 days of shipping? This is ridiculous.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 9:24 PM, Robert Riesenman <[email protected]>wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Jonathan,
>>>>
>>>> Your package was sent out on the 19th. And from the tracking
>>>> information you should have gotten it today. That is what it states. I'm
>>>> sorry you are upset with our service but we can't control the mail. I
>>>> would suspect you will get them tomorrow. I have enclosed the tracking
>>>> information and am sending you a separate email showing the information.
>>>> Understand if you would like to take your business else where. Sorry we
>>>> failed to met your expectations. If you would like a refund, please send
>>>> me back the shipment and we would be more than happy to refund your money.
>>>>
>>>> USPS: 9101785091401594315102
>>>>
>>>> Rob
>>>> www.dubideli.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> On Mar 22, 2012, at 2:11 PM, "[email protected]" <
>>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> We never even received this shipment. I think we just need our money
>>>> back and we will do business elsewhere.
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Mar 18, 2012 at 11:00 AM, [email protected] <
>>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Yes. We can do that.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, Mar 17, 2012 at 5:03 PM, Robert Riesenman <[email protected]>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Since they are all dead we can ship you out another order. I would
>>>>>> like to inspect the order. We will pay you to ship the product back to us.
>>>>>> Can you do that?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mar 17, 2012, at 1:37 PM, "[email protected]" <
>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > I ordered 1/4oz 1/4" on 14 March 2012. They arrived today at
>>>>>> 4:20pm. I opened the package and was pretty disappointed to say the least.
>>>>>> Your estimated count for 1/4oz 1/4" is 200 + over count. There are only
>>>>>> approx. 80-100. They all also arrived dead. Not a single dubia was alive.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > I tried calling the phone number listed on your website and got a
>>>>>> voicemail for someone named Susan Harrington?
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > I appreciate your time and assistance in this matter.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Jonathan Carter

 

[dubideli]

Hi all. I am not really sure why Jonathan is so upset. If anyone reading this post has any thoughts on this matter, I would like to hear as I am at a loss. In short, we sent him out a second package that the PO shows as a delivery on 3/22/2012. (we have no control over the PO and something apparently happened to cause the first shipment to be DOA, and now an apparent lost second package). See his post for the picture of tracking information on second package.

I think it is reasonable to get the second package back before we give a refund or have a conversation with the PO to see what happened to it (he might get the package tomorrow). He has not allowed us time for either option and has demanded a refund before we can investigate the issue.

I'm really not sure why he won't accept the second package (the DOA was not our fault) when we shipped it after we were notified of the DOA. We acted quickly and he wants a refund for a delivery that is a day late when we have no control over the delay. So he started this BOI.



For more details, please see his post of our conversations.

Sincerely,
Rob
www.dubideli.com

 

[AGoodwin]

actually it does NOT show as being delivered. If you have ever used USPS tracking before you would know that it says "DELIVERED" when it has been so. In this instance, it shows "Tracking Not Updated" which to me indicates some kind of problem.

As for him not accepting a second package, how can he? He has NOT received it. And how can you say that the DOA was not your fault? You do not know that. I know how much abuse these things can take, so I find it hard to believe that ALL of them died just from being thrown around a bit in the shipping box.

Yes, maybe he is a bit premature in opening this thread, but still, it is not his fault either that the packaged has not arrived. That, paired with the fact that something obviously went very wrong with the first package. Although, that may not be your fault, there is also the claim of the count being significantly short on the first package which IS your fault.

Yes, he started this BOI thread, but that is what it is here for. So potential customers can learn about how you do business. If you right this situation, then you have nothing to worry about. So rather than spending your time on here defending yourself, why don't you figure out what went wrong and fix it? That would say a lot more for yourself.

 

[dubideli]

Just wanted to add...

The package was sent out on 3/19/12 not 3/22/12 as Jonathon states. 3/22/12 was supposed to be the delivery day (yesterday). See the tracking post in his complaint.

We were notified 3/17/12 of the DOA and responded to him in 3 hours. The Monday following Saturday we sent him out a second package. This was before he wanted a refund.

Our packaging is awesome and our service is even more so! We just can't please everyone. Just see our reviews on www.beardeddragon.org or www.facebook.com/DubiDeli

We can't explain what happened to cause all the bugs to die in shipping (which he believes is our fault) but anyone in the live shipping business knows that packages could arrive DOA.

I guess he takes "live arrival guaranteed" to literally mean just that. Hence the BOI. All we mean by this is that we will replace your shipment at no charge to you. Not even shipping (which most do). This is in line with almost every other insect breeding company.

Sincerely,
Rob
www.dubideli.com

 

[dubideli]

Amanda, we ship all the time. This is actually the first all DOA for us. Like I said we have not had time to look into this and without the package we have no idea what happened (most likely froze due to cold weather sitting outside too long). It is only a day late, most likely will be there tomorrow. Yes, first package was short, we would send out another package even if all alive. We made a mistake it happens and we corrected it by sending out a new package as fast as we could. How do you think we could have done better?

 

[dubideli]

Amanda, I didn't say it was delivered on 3/22/12. I said the PO shows as a delivery on 3/22/2012.

 

[chadharper]

I've seen that happen before, the status not updated. It was caused by a refused package and returned to sender...

 

[AGoodwin]

Amanda, I didn't say it was delivered on 3/22/12. I said the PO shows as a delivery on 3/22/2012.

But that is not true. The tracking does not say "Delivered".

Also, if the bugs died from being too cold, then yes, that IS your fault. If temperatures were going to be that cold, then a heat pack should have been provided. I have gotten orders of roaches in the middle of winter and NOT ONE was dead. Why? because they were properly packaged.

And what do you mean you "we have not had time to look into this". Customer Service should be your number one priority. Oh, and you have plenty of time to post here.

 

[dubideli]

Thank you Chad, so he just refused shipment. Are you sure this is what it means? If that is the case, I can give him a refund once I get the package back.


Amanda, it says "expected delivery March 22, 2012" (again I never said delivered) in the upper right hand corner. I can only go by what it says without talking to someone at the PO. Yes, CS is our priority. We got back to him 3 hours after he emailed us. We sent out a new packing as soon as we could no questions asked. How is this not good CS?


Amanda, how did you know there was no heat pack in the box???? That is not mentioned anywhere in any posts and you put that out there as fact not speculation or asking but fact. Your writing (and your stance) in my opinion is similar to Johnathon. I think you are the same person.

The fact that you told me "Oh, and you have plenty of time to post here" You sound mad when you are supposed to an unbiased reader going off the facts as you have no stake in this. From your passion about this, you seem to. This jab you took only makes me think more that you are Johnathon.

I think there is enough information here for others to make their own opinion.

 

[Lucille]

I think there is enough information here for others to make their own opinion.

My opinion is that a reported undercount of 50% is a serious quality control issue. While sending out a replacement package is a good move, this is an opportunity for this company to assure that they will double check and make sure of the count prior to shipping.

 

[chadharper]

Thank you Chad, so he just refused shipment. Are you sure this is what it means? If that is the case, I can give him a refund once I get the package back.


Amanda, it says "expected delivery March 22, 2012" (again I never said delivered) in the upper right hand corner. I can only go by what it says without talking to someone at the PO. Yes, CS is our priority. We got back to him 3 hours after he emailed us. We sent out a new packing as soon as we could no questions asked. How is this not good CS?


Amanda, how did you know there was no heat pack in the box???? That is not mentioned anywhere in any posts and you put that out there as fact not speculation or asking but fact. Your writing (and your stance) in my opinion is similar to Johnathon. I think you are the same person.

The fact that you told me "Oh, and you have plenty of time to post here" You sound mad when you are supposed to an unbiased reader going off the facts as you have no stake in this. From your passion about this, you seem to. This jab you took only makes me think more that you are Johnathon.

I think there is enough information here for others to make their own opinion.

I wont say 100% for sure but the same thing occurred on a transaction for me last year. I would certainly contact the shipping company and see if they can confirm this or not.

 

[Focal]

Can we see pics of the first dead order?

 

[dubideli]

Lucille, actually we do double check. We sell by weight not by count. Our weight is correct that is double checked so he got what he paid for even if the count was not what he wanted.

Also, he didn't ask for the refund immediately. He didn't' ask for a refund until 3/22/12, the day the package was to arrive (or did). Looks to be refused by receiver but don't know for sure. Why did he wait so long to want a refund and have us ship the package?

Also, when he sent me the DOA notice on 3/17/12, he said it was approximately 80-100 instead of 200. Obviously he didn't' count if he provided a range. 1/4" is very small and it doesn't look like a lot. Visual inspection is not a count, which we don't guarantee. We guarantee the weight. I believe he got exactly what he ordered.

There is nothing wrong with the order we sent except for some reason it was DOA. This has not been proven. It is very odd that he would cancel the second shipment so late. This whole things smells fishy to me.

Regardless, he will get his money back. Should charge him for the second package shipped since he choose to ask for a refund 5 days after notice of DOA! We are not going to do that.

Paypal allows us 30 or more days to do a refund so we are well within Paypal policies.

 

[Lucille]

Lucille, actually we do double check. We sell by weight not by count..

I'm surprised that roaches of a certain stated size can weigh so much that the count can be half of the approximate count given. Perhaps, so that buyers have an idea that their count might be lower than what they expect, you could give more of a range in the approximate count. It might be that you sell by weight, but the customer buys by count, so a range might be helpful in those cases. Here, an example from your ad:


First column: Weight in ounces
Second column: Approximate count
Third column: Price (shipping included)


Size: 1/4"

0.031 25 $11
0.063 50 $12
0.125 100 $13
0.188 150 $15
0.250 200 $17
0.375 300 $20
0.625 500 $30
1.250 1000 $55

 

[JCarter]

I've seen that happen before, the status not updated. It was caused by a refused package and returned to sender...

No, may have happened that way to you before, but I assure you I did not refuse delivery of the 2nd package. I did contact the PO today. They gave me a case # and said they would look into the matter. Very helpful, but at least they weren't as pretentious as you and claimed that I refused delivery.

Thank you Chad, so he just refused shipment. Are you sure this is what it means? If that is the case, I can give him a refund once I get the package back.


Amanda, it says "expected delivery March 22, 2012" (again I never said delivered) in the upper right hand corner. I can only go by what it says without talking to someone at the PO. Yes, CS is our priority. We got back to him 3 hours after he emailed us. We sent out a new packing as soon as we could no questions asked. How is this not good CS?


Amanda, how did you know there was no heat pack in the box???? That is not mentioned anywhere in any posts and you put that out there as fact not speculation or asking but fact. Your writing (and your stance) in my opinion is similar to Johnathon. I think you are the same person.

The fact that you told me "Oh, and you have plenty of time to post here" You sound mad when you are supposed to an unbiased reader going off the facts as you have no stake in this. From your passion about this, you seem to. This jab you took only makes me think more that you are Johnathon.

I think there is enough information here for others to make their own opinion.

If that was the case why wouldn't I just tell you that I sent it back? Why would I deny it and then ask for a refund if your demand is for me to return the 2nd package in order to get a refund. That doesn't make any sense does it.

And just to clarify, no, I am not posting as 2 separate people. Amanda just seems to have some sense to her.

And no, there were no heat packs in the 1st package.

 

[AGoodwin]

WOW, now you are accusing me of being someone else. Yeah, I am sure Jonathan made a second account as a 25 year old girl from NH and made more than 150 posts on that account JUST so he could come on here and defend himself to you. Get over yourself.

 

[JCarter]

WOW, now you are accusing me of being someone else. Yeah, I am sure Jonathan made a second account as a 25 year old girl from NH and made more than 150 posts on that account JUST so he could come on here and defend himself to you. Get over yourself.

Sorry to have him try to sling mud your way Amanda. As you pointed out earlier, he says he hasn't had time to investigate the DOA shipment, but he has obviously had plenty of time to come on here and make baseless accusations. Seems to me for someone who says customer service is his #1 priority he has an odd way of satisfying that particular claim.

 

[dubideli]

No, may have happened that way to you before, but I assure you I did not refuse delivery of the 2nd package. I did contact the PO today. They gave me a case # and said they would look into the matter. Very helpful, but at least they weren't as pretentious as you and claimed that I refused delivery.


If that was the case why wouldn't I just tell you that I sent it back? Why would I deny it and then ask for a refund if your demand is for me to return the 2nd package in order to get a refund. That doesn't make any sense does it.

And just to clarify, no, I am not posting as 2 separate people. Amanda just seems to have some sense to her.

And no, there were no heat packs in the 1st package.

I'm not sure why you are calling JCarter pretentious. He just give this opinion on what he thought was the case. Sounds like you thought I said that but I didn't. That was someone else.

There was no need for a heat pack in the package. As long as temperature is above freezing (which it was) they would be just fine. They are a durable bug and we have shipped all winter long without one heat pack and without one all DOA. If the temperature was too cold, we would have put a hold on the package. This is a first for us and we are skeptical given our volume. But we are all about CS so we sent you out a new package ASAP without delay or question. We didn't ask you for proof of what you claimed in other words.

We did not "demand" we asked you. It makes perfect sense for us to want the second package back before a refund or the first one for that matter. This is standard business practices anywhere. You asked for a refund 5 days after the DOA notification only to say you want a refund on the day it was to be delivered? That makes no sense at all. It is not our fault the PO delayed your shipment.

You notified us on a Saturday and we shipped out on the following Monday. That was the fastest we could do it. Why not just ask for a refund when you first contacted us about the DOA? Why not the day after? Why all of a sudden did you want a refund? Hmmm...


I asked for the first package back and you didn't send it to us. We ask, you said ok but no package came. We were going to reimburse you for the shipping cost which we told you. We took your word for it without proof of claim and sent you out another package immediately. To this point, we have no way to verify your claims that you were shorted or they were all DOA.

I don't see how I'm a bad guy here as you claim. We did everything we could to make this right without any proof of your claims.

 

[JCarter]

As has been said on Fauna so many times before, it's not the 100 transactions that go smoothly, it's the 1 that has issues and how the seller handles and responds to those issues that make a good guy vs. a bad guy.

Granted, Robert did send a 2nd package in order to satisfy dubideli's DOA guarantee. I admit this was a stand-up thing to do in order to fix an issue. Had that 2nd package arrived, the count been right and they were alive it would have fixed it. But, that hasn't happened.

Now Robert comes on here making baseless accusations:

1st he claims that it's fishy that I want a refund after the 2nd package has been lost. Yes, you are right. I do now want a refund, but more because of how you have conducted yourself as opposed to the 2nd package not arriving.

2nd, he says that he believes that I refused delivery. That is totally inaccurate and can be easily confirmed by USPS. It would say that I refused delivery on the tracking status.

3rd, from out of left field he says that I am double posting as Amanda. That is a total load of and I take offense to it as I'm sure Amanda does as well.

So to sum it all up, Robert has not conducted himself as a professional and I would just as soon do business with someone that is professional and treats customers with a bit of respect.

 

[deborahbroadus]

No, may have happened that way to you before, but I assure you I did not refuse delivery of the 2nd package. I did contact the PO today. They gave me a case # and said they would look into the matter. Very helpful, but at least they weren't as pretentious as you and claimed that I refused delivery.


If that was the case why wouldn't I just tell you that I sent it back? Why would I deny it and then ask for a refund if your demand is for me to return the 2nd package in order to get a refund. That doesn't make any sense does it.

And just to clarify, no, I am not posting as 2 separate people. Amanda just seems to have some sense to her.

And no, there were no heat packs in the 1st package.

Did you take pictures of the un-boxing (opening the box)? If so, please post.