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Bad Guy TIBOR PAPP DEAL BREAKER


This deal was flat out dishonest. What is worse, is that a lot of effort is being made toward cheap damage control ($35) like this big corporations that screw the little guy and then the corporation goes merrily on its way.
If this person was an honest breeder, he would realize that this was wrong and offer a similar lot of snakes at a similar price, or something to make this innocent buyer happy. It speaks volumes that nothing is being done.

And no one is addressing the hanky panky in the timeline post either. This whole thing stinks.
 
[

As for the snakes, they are already sold and have been for over a week now, so unfortunately I cannot offer them to him. I'm sorry.[/QUOTE]

So that even makes it worse. The snakes were already sold and he tried selling them again? What was he really planning on doing with the money??

he did get the check. Was he going to cash it and keep the money and he had a change of heart? it now even sounds more fishy. When we spoke on the phone he stated his painting busieness wasn't doing very well.

As far as me not loosing anything I lost time aggrevation and money. I also lost a litter from him that I was looking forward to getting. I was showing off the photos that he sent me on Sunday of what I had coming.I also lost a couple of other litters that I passed on because I thought I was getting the litter from him and the funds were sent.
The right thing to do was first off don't offer a litter that was sold.
the other right thing to do was sell me the litter we had a deal with for the full price on which we agreed on, and payment was sent and sell the other person the other litter(the one I passed on) at the discounted price seeing how I was paying full price for the one litter. Both parties would have gotten snakes and both parties would be satisfied and all this could have been avoided.
What you did was just plain unethical and unprofessional and wrong!!!
 
Tibor will ALWAYS have a GREAT reputation to me and to everyone else that knows him. He may not have handled this deal to everyones liking, but please dont call this a "disaster" sheesh. Like others have said, probally one of the most honest, straight forward people I know period. His animals are second to none.
Todd Dyer

What good are his animals if he dosen't uphold his end of a deal and you don't get them??
 
so sorry Joe..selling online is tuff..when he low balled me..I looked else where to sell my own cb boas...thats really the bottom line...and had many interested parties..and some that wanted both...is it not my decision whom I sell to?..as long as I had not used their $$....I'm honest, I can sleep @ night.
really its not worthy of a boi thread.

I tried to negotiate with you and at the end we agreed on the original asking price. When you agreed to sell them to me and agreed to take a check that was it. DEAL DONE. I kept in close contact with you with updates all the way through. You offered me the snakes(I accepted)you sold the snakes then when they couldn't come up with the money sold to me again. Why did you keep looking after we had a deal?? How many other people sent you payment ??
 
Seems to me this thread is justified .
1, seller offered to sell already sold animals.
2,seller wasted buyers time costing the buyer a 20.00 stop fee for the check.

while 2 is minimal, 1 is a big deal , while people who's reputations i highly respect in this business chimed in for the seller i still feel this warning thread has been justified and regardless of past deals for someone to take offers and payment for already sold animals is a HUGE red flag for me and countless others.

as for a member insisting the other buyer send the animals to the slitted party , i disagree with this , why is it his responsibility for the mis deeds of the seller?
 
We are also overlooking the fact that he lied to me. He origanally told me that he didn't sell them to me because he couldn't ship them. He said he didn't have enough snake bags. Then he states he sold them to some one else. He must have made poor judgement on this also.
 
Guys Tibor is one of the most genuine people in the business. He is easily one of the best guys around and I have been doing business with him for years now.

I am the one who bought the boas and I made Tibor an offer on them before anyone else knew they were available. I had already purchased his other litter from him earlier in the year and had been in talks since then about the others he was going to have to offer.

I'm not saying his decision to shop the litter was the best idea after he and I had talked, but the bottom line is he had my money in his hand before any other checks arrived because he called me when it did arrive and told me of his dilemma, so I simply agreed to raise my offer to meet him in the middle because he expressed to me that he needed more money for them since he had this other offer on hand for part of the group I was buying. So, actually he still took less money overall, but since he and I already had a deal prior to this other offer he agreed to honor it and I agreed to raise my offer slightly to compensate him accordingly.

You also must understand that he is not the type of guy who has the hobby's best interests at heart so take it easy on him. He is a genuine guy and I am not saying that because I got his animals in the deal, I am saying that because he is a friend and I think many others that know him feel the same way. He may have made a poor choice in the way things were handled, but he like most of us is just trying to put food on his families plates as best as possible.

Hopefully, this helps clear the air with everything and we can leave this very private guy alone.

Thank You,

When did you give him the money?
 
as for a member insisting the other buyer send the animals to the slitted party , i disagree with this , why is it his responsibility for the mis deeds of the seller?

Because he appears, to some extent, to have been involved:

he had my money in his hand before any other checks arrived because he called me when it did arrive and told me of his dilemma, so I simply agreed to raise my offer

There is something fishy about the timeline. It looks like the other buyer actually had the critters sold while the seller was still trying to make deals with the OP.

On 5-28-2012 at 11:32 he e-mailed me again saying they could not come up with the money so the litter is mine again if I wanted it.
 
Tibor is one of the true good guys. I bought a pair of boas from him 6 years ago.
He is a rare genuine breeder that we don't see so much of in this hobby.

There is no way for Tibor to know that the OP wasn't bluffing about the check, heck, animals are bought and not followed through with the payment all the time. I don't see too many sellers coming here and whining that the check never arrived.

Jordan that's a real nice thing to do!

There were plenty of ways to no I was not bluffing. I offered him pay pal deposit or full purchase or even credit card. He new I was serious.
He then had check in hand and still didn't sell them to me.
 
1. The SELLER needs to send Joesph the money for the stop check fee.

2. If the snakes have already been sold for a week, then the SELLLER was selling snakes he no longer had possession of. To me that reeks of a scammer. Of course he "said" he sent the check back, but that cannot be confirmed at this point in time.

3. I will NEVER buy from someone who conducts hisself the way Tibor has. They had a deal/contract & he broke it, or sold snakes he no longer had. Either way, someone I will stay away from.
 
I sincerely hope Tibor finds a way to clear this up. He is a respected member of the boa community. I don't know him personally but I do own a longicauda he produced in 2009.

I agree with the OP's concerns....I would be very put out as well. I have also been on the receiving end of being "outbid" by another buyer and a seller. Come on, Tibor.
 
hmm ..getting drag thru the mud..throw the flag..back me up to the fifty..I'm guilty of not selling boas to Joe...oh geez really..come on.
his envolope came tuesday morning and I had an envolope written to mail right back.. right away..sorry it takes 4 days..you should have it in friday mail unopened.
At this point may have better I did not sell to him...get a grip Joe..this has happened to me at least a dozen times..if not more..things happen and stuff gets sold...my bad sorry again. btw there are even better than I made on RI..go for it!
ps thanks to all that know me and the kind words...last thing I want is to hurt anyone..
 
hmm ..getting drag thru the mud..throw the flag..back me up to the fifty..I'm guilty of not selling boas to Joe...oh geez really..come on.
his envolope came tuesday morning and I had an envolope written to mail right back.. right away..sorry it takes 4 days..you should have it in friday mail unopened.
At this point may have better I did not sell to him...get a grip Joe..this has happened to me at least a dozen times..if not more..things happen and stuff gets sold...my bad sorry again. btw there are even better than I made on RI..go for it!
ps thanks to all that know me and the kind words...last thing I want is to hurt anyone..

If its been done to you and you know the way it feels then why do it to someone else? Did you not learn from it happening a dozen times?
Its not about you not selling me the boas it is about breaking a deal. If you said no I will not take your offer then it would have been fine, but you made a deal got my money and reneged.
 
.last thing I want is to hurt anyone..

Well, you are doing a great job at hurting yourself.

YOU MADE A DEAL AND BROKE IT!

How hard is that to understand in the business world, you do not do things like that?

Also, your communication skills need some work, as I really didn't understand half of what you said.

I don't care how good your boas are... you have the ethics and morals of an alley cat.
 
hmm ..getting drag thru the mud..throw the flag..back me up to the fifty..I'm guilty of not selling boas to Joe...oh geez really..come on.
his envolope came tuesday morning and I had an envolope written to mail right back.. right away..sorry it takes 4 days..you should have it in friday mail unopened.
At this point may have better I did not sell to him...get a grip Joe..this has happened to me at least a dozen times..if not more..things happen and stuff gets sold...my bad sorry again. btw there are even better than I made on RI..go for it!
ps thanks to all that know me and the kind words...last thing I want is to hurt anyone..


There is that crappy attitude again to ice the cake with. Keep digging Tibor...:shootfoot
 
hmm ..getting drag thru the mud..throw the flag..back me up to the fifty..I'm guilty of not selling boas to Joe...oh geez really..come on.
his envolope came tuesday morning and I had an envolope written to mail right back.. right away..sorry it takes 4 days..you should have it in friday mail unopened.
At this point may have better I did not sell to him...get a grip Joe..this has happened to me at least a dozen times..if not more..things happen and stuff gets sold...my bad sorry again. btw there are even better than I made on RI..go for it!
ps thanks to all that know me and the kind words...last thing I want is to hurt anyone..


You don't seem to understand the difference between not selling to someone (or refusing to sell to someone) versus ~breaching a contract~. Nor does it seem you understand that, once a check is in the mail, the deal is sealed & contract terms are met by the buyer. The animals are sold right at the point that a check is dropped into the mail (before you receive the check).

There is a big difference between a buyer backing out, or a seller deciding not to sell to someone since they have not received payment in timely fashion (or the terms of a contract were not met), versus breaching a contract.

What is disturbing is that:
#1 - The animals were previously promised (sold?) to someone else (person A).
#2 - Then they were sold to another individual (person B). Which, if you did not have money from person A, is not wrong, per se, but would place you in a position of not being a man of his word. If you did have money, from person A, then it = Breach of contract with person A.
#3 - Then they were sold to yet another person (person C), when a contract was in effect with person B (and he had upheld his end), and person B was told that the animals were sold to someone else (during the time that the check, from person B, was in transit to you) = Breach of contract with person B.
#4 - Then, since person C could not come up with the money, person B was told that the animals could be his again (reenacting the contract).
#5 - Then the animals were sold to person A, with the requirement of his paying more than the price that was previously agreed upon, without the knowledge of person B.
#6 - Person B learns, after you receive his check, that the animals have been sold to someone else (someone else was person A) = Breach of contract, X2, with person B.
#7 - Reason/s, for not selling to person B, keeps changing. Full truth, and consistency, matters a lot and it is not being seen in this case.

I was perfectly willing to accept that, perhaps, this was just an error in judgment and that it would/could be learned from.
However, that does not seem to occurring and it does not seem that you have the least bit of remorse. :shrug01:
 
WHAT WE have here...is FAAAAILURE to communicate.....I don't like it any more than you......BUT....business wise, seller made a good move....ethic wise he made half a good move...in the sense he returned that check cause as we read on the BOI he could have cashed it....and never sent anything...or...sent 23-27 little critters which half would have croaked. (seeing in the email he wasnt so sure about sending them like that). Could be just an excuse anyways. But on a bad note. He kept people on strings to see who was bucking up the most. WHICH is not a bad move but he should have told the buyers i have people offering a little more then you. I have yet to meet a person who has ACCEPTED a deal without paypal clearing...or cash/check in hand and cleared. On ANY business level. Who knows. Few things here. MAIN thing. Check was returned. And im sure it was a hefty check. Seller should pay for bank check cancellation fee since seller went for a higher offer without notifying ALL parties there are multiple offers. WHICH is reasonable. Seller needed to inform first offer that there is a higher offer. OR if that shipping matter of a mass litter REALLY did bother him. Gotta give him kudos for that. SELLER should have accepted That paypal...unless he dont have an account. If not. GET ONE DUDE!!! Buyer should have sent it overnight....may not have even mattered but could have pursuaded the seller once check was in hand. Maybe not. Should have...could have...hes right...hes not right. Honestly....business ethics are fairly twisted....Can make an honest man crooked...Blame the seller for Greed? One of the greatest sins.....Good business bad ethics? Who knows. Unlikeable ethics but Great business? I remember taking an ethics class in College. In Greece. lol. Look where that Got them. Anyways....seems like huge failure of communicaton here. Or just plain greed. But in the end only 20 bucks lost.....seller should pay for cancellation of check.
 
..business wise, seller made a good move..

I think you did not read or pay attention to what has been written. The seller has permanently damaged his rep with many readers by making a deal and not honoring it. And the timeline shows some underhanded dealing going on.
 
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