Info TRUTHS ABOUT THE HIDDEN GENE WOMA THAT ARE IN DIRECT CONFLICT OF KEVIN MCCURELY(NERD)

[mountain top]

considering I was the owner of a pastel woma and womas from outback reptiles. as well as having seen every single picture including the founding dam that producedjoe's pewter hgw. so I'm sorry I do not agree. KM
ps those of you making rude comments let's keep it on topic. and as always I only say it as I see it.

 

[Cp3_Pythons]

well I don't know what all the ruckus is about. what I see is that a pewter hgw that has produced a pewter soul sucker, and several other gorgeous animals that I can only hope to be able to afford as the inferno ball, soul sucker, and the angel of death morphs are my favorites of all ball pythons. all I can do is thank joe and clark for their full disclosure and honesty and fair pricing. I will not tell you that I always agree with joe. but joe tells me the truth when he sells me a snake or anyone else for that matter. so enough already. k. matthews

Please tell me you didn't buy the NORMAL pewter woma for 17.5k???
If you did Joe didn't disclose the truth to you...

Seems they need help to move their clutches... because when it's time for babies to start hatching they usually post a thread on another breeder and a morph their working with trying to dis credit said breeder and the morph their working with...

Is business that slow Joe & Clark? That you really have nothing better to do than sit around and brainstorm idea's on who to attempt to bash and how to do so?? In an attempt to sell animals you produce as something else when there really not what you say they are??? A bit Unethical wouldn't you say??

Do us all a favor... go ahead let the truth come out that you are in fact lying and have done so throughout this entire thread... because in all honesty that's the only real truth I have seen in these 20 some page's of well garbage Nothing you've said or attempted to say or make us think has had a positive outlook for you nor PHR... I must say Clark hasn't posted on this thread often... Maybe he knows your running circles and your mouth? and nothing more

 

[Cp3_Pythons]

considering I was the owner of a pastel woma and womas from outback reptiles. as well as having seen every single picture including the founding dam that producedjoe's pewter hgw. so I'm sorry I do not agree. KM
ps those of you making rude comments let's keep it on topic. and as always I only say it as I see it.

KEY WORD WOMA'S you don't sate you owned a HG Pastel Woma or even a HGW you state WOMA'S not from either of the parties involved in this thread but outback reptile's... Last time I checked I haven't seen Outback Reptiles offer a HGW for sale... ( although I could have missed the ad )
What does " as well as having seen every single picture including the founding dam " mean We seen that picture too she's in post one in this thread... we've already came to the conclusion that it's a Normal Woma nothing more... except for the fact she's in shed... so you've seen plenty of woma's from what your saying yet you say nothing about seeing a HGW or dealing with them...

 

[Suncoast Herpetological]

You know I am amazed that after 25 pages no one has made a simple observation that would have limited this thread to a handful of posts.

It was started by Joe Capone...is anyone actually taking it seriously?

 

[gsrept]

you should direct that to JOE its his thread that holds no water. He is the one that brought this to the BOI to try and hurt another breeder and help himself out. He will dodge that to. this is my last post on this matter.

To Kevin see you around as always and wish you and your staff the best as always.
PHR good luck selling your fake knockoffs. as the old saying goes Karma is a B%^&$

 

[Cp3_Pythons]

You know I am amazed that after 25 pages no one has made a simple observation that would have limited this thread to a handful of posts.

It was started by Joe Capone...is anyone actually taking it seriously?

 

[Get Sum]

The "truth" is Joe and Clark are running circles playing he said she said proof this truth that we have it yet Nothing either of them said has a leg to stand on.. the truth is that Joe and Clark must both eat their own words as there OWN WORDS made them liars... so many lie's they can't even keep them straight... with that 17.5k you SCAMMED out of someone that probably doesn't know any better you should go buy a pencil and paper and start writing your lies down so you can keep track of them...

IMO anything the either of you produce will always be a KNOCK OFF of the real Morph it is said to represent... similar to that of fake Gucci bag's as personally I believe that you take an already named morph mix it in a little and then claim it to be yours and start a thread on who ever currently has that morph stating how yours is so much better and how yours is the real deal That may work once maybe ( although no one really bought your story then either similar to now as well ) no ONE is buying this " the truth " you keep saying and speaking of as you have failed and miserably I might add at providing any real evidence just broken emails and parts of emails nothing that proves any of the claims you've came here to state. The only truth is BY YOUR OWN WORDS IN A PREVIOUS POSTED EMAIL THAT YOU ARE IN FACT A LIAR...

Clarence...Buddy... Please, Please, Please do MOST of us a favor and place everything that you have on your mind and care to share in (1) single post!! How many times of you posted reply's on this single thread? This thread is not about you...and Thank You in Advance!

Am I good close friends with Clark Tucker, absolutely. He is a very good friend of mine, though I do not know Joe Capone. IMHO, I do see alot in common with both Joe's snake and Kevin's snake. Am I certain they are the same, No.

The Bottom Line is: Everyone is speculating their opinions based on the results of only (1) clutch. Not all combos of any mutation look exactly the same, some have more blushing, color, pattern ect.. (Just look at the available HGW's for sale on NERD's website) Look how different they look from each other.

I personally think MOST of us should wait to see the results of Joe and Clark's upcoming clutches that were sired by their Pewter HGW, then base our opinions and final judgement.

Joe said what he wanted to say, Kevin said what he wanted to say, Clark said what he wanted to say....The way I see it, this thread is over until future clutch's hatch out and pictures of the new animals are posted.

 

[Ghi Reptiles]

considering I was the owner of a pastel woma and womas from outback reptiles. as well as having seen every single picture including the founding dam that producedjoe's pewter hgw. so I'm sorry I do not agree. KM
ps those of you making rude comments let's keep it on topic. and as always I only say it as I see it.

Hey Kevin,

As a producer of many hidden gene womas and hidden gene woma combos...take my word for it...the animals Joe are posting have no hidden gene woma in them. They are very cool looking like everyone is saying but the truth is the truth...sorry.

 

[Cp3_Pythons]

Clarence...Buddy... Please, Please, Please do MOST of us a favor and place everything that you have on your mind and care to share in (1) single post!! How many times of you posted reply's on this single thread? This thread is not about you...and Thank You in Advance!

Am I good close friends with Clark Tucker, absolutely. He is a very good friend of mine, though I do not know Joe Capone. IMHO, I do see alot in common with both Joe's snake and Kevin's snake. Am I certain they are the same, No.

The Bottom Line is: Everyone is speculating their opinions based on the results of only (1) clutch. Not all combos of any mutation look exactly the same, some have more blushing, color, pattern ect.. (Just look at the available HGW's for sale on NERD's website) Look how different they look from each other.

I personally think MOST of us should wait to see the results of Joe and Clark's upcoming clutches that were sired by their Pewter HGW, then base our opinions and final judgement.

Joe said what he wanted to say, Kevin said what he wanted to say, Clark said what he wanted to say....The way I see it, this thread is over until future clutch's hatch out and pictures of the new animals are posted.

1st... I'm not your "buddy" so please don't refer to me as I am... To the best of my knowledge I've never spoken to you... Never had any transaction with you so where so you come up with the idea I'm your buddy?
Because we share an interest in the same hobby?
2nd since you seem to want to single me out whats the point in that?... although several people have made multiple comment's on this thread... How many time's have several other people posted their comment's on this thread? Why not ask them the question you've asked me? Who said I wanted this post to be about me? where did I imply that? by stating my own opinions on the matter at hand? Don't get uptight because your " good " friend is at it again not him per say but is Power House Reptile's that Joe Capone does represent correct? Instead of trying to single me out out maybe you should have posted:

" Joe why would you come to the BOI with a post like this with no evidence to back it up? Why jump the gun with clutch? And to go up against NERD without providing hard evidence or the emails you stated to have is plain absurd... this thread was over before it was finished being written because it was being written by Joe Capone "

I personally think if it wasn't for PHR own Joe Capone jumping the gun and starting this thread before the rest of the clutches hatched I along with others wouldn't be here posting what where posting on this matter would we?

Last but not least NOT one of my post here was off topic nor did it violate any rules or regulations on this site as If I did I'm sure a Mod wouldn't have a problem giving me an Infraction or a temp ban... ( If one is thought to be needed because of this post I'll take it... although I'd feel it was unwarranted... I'll take it )
Now I'm done with this thread similar to the way the industry is done with PHR and the scandals they use to market the animals they produce which are at best bad Knock Off's of the animals their said to represent... I think I know who got taken for 17.5k...

 

[mountain top]

Hey Kevin,

As a producer of many hidden gene womas and hidden gene woma combos...take my word for it...the animals Joe are posting have no hidden gene woma in them. They are very cool looking like everyone is saying but the truth is the truth...sorry.

matt no disrespect brother but you need to post pictures for me to understand or to take it for anything else other than just you talking. and if this is the case why are they not on the world ball python? just asking a question not making a comment. thank you, K. Matthews

 

[Ghi Reptiles]

Hey Kevin,

I have posted pictures in my recent posts. There's a comparison shot of Joe's pewter woma and BHB's pewter woma. They are mirror images of each other. To date there has been no woma combo that looks like the hidden gene woma combos. I've posted a pastel HG woma and compared it to Joe's pastel woma...no comparison. Not sure if any of mine are on the WOBP site but here are a few for you to look at, compare, and please post pics of any woma combos that resembles them.

Woma enchi

Hidden gene woma enchi

Woma yellow belly

Hidden gene woma yellow belly

Here are a few more hidden gene woma combos I have produced.

Hope this helps a bit to distinguish the differences.

 

[SERPENTS DEN]

Hey Kevin,

I have posted pictures in my recent posts. There's a comparison shot of Joe's pewter woma and BHB's pewter woma. They are mirror images of each other. To date there has been no woma combo that looks like the hidden gene woma combos. I've posted a pastel HG woma and compared it to Joe's pastel woma...no comparison. Not sure if any of mine are on the WOBP site but here are a few for you to look at, compare, and please post pics of any woma combos that resembles them.

Woma enchi

Hidden gene woma enchi

Woma yellow belly

Hidden gene woma yellow belly

Here are a few more hidden gene woma combos I have produced.

Hope this helps a bit to distinguish the differences.

Damn, you're killing me, those HGW crosses are so much different than Womas.

 

[bxjoon]

Damn Matt, those hgw's scream compared to regular womas, very nice animals

 

[Snake-Queen]

this thread is like a chicken with its head cut off its going nowhere

While I have learned quite a bit about ball python genetics and morphs, that is it. Well and to never buy from PHR.

 

[mountain top]

Matt, It obvious to me that they aren't going to make the exact crosses as your Granite Hidden Gene Womas. The fact of the matter is, Kevin acknowledged a Super Pastel Hidden Gene Woma last year on WOBP from PHR. Kevin also acknowledged and changed his sterling HGW this year because of PHR's Sterling HGW. This is a fact proven in correspondence. Stop trying to say their animal isn't a Hidden Gene Woma. It is just different from the Granite Hidden Gene Woma and that is what they are saying. You are posting nice Granite Hidden Gene Woma crosses but they are going to be different then the PHR's Original Hidden Gene Woma Crosses. I am not taking anything away from your snakes as they are nice. But the crosses are going to be a little different period. You guys just need to accept that and get over it. The truth is PHR's Original Hidden Gene Woma looks much closer to Kevin's Original Hidden Gene Woma picture he posted. They are both regular looking womas with flames. No other regular looking Womas have flames. Some of PHR's crosses are different then yours but they should be as your Granite HGW is different then the Original Hidden Gene Woma. Just accept that there is two types of Hidden Gene Womas as Kevin showed in the pic of the founding animal which definitely was not looking like your Granite Hidden Gene Womas. PHR also made the Pewter Soul Sucker since Kevin acknowledged the other crosses proven in correspondence. Kevin's admission in his correspondence is all the proof PHR needs. They don't need to make any animals to prove to anyone anymore. This is over Matt. You just need to accept it as Kevin did in his correspondence with the WOBP over a year ago.
K. Matthews (a proud buyer of phr ball pythons)

 

[Discojaguar]

Matt, It obvious to me that they aren't going to make the exact crosses as your Granite Hidden Gene Womas. The fact of the matter is, Kevin acknowledged a Super Pastel Hidden Gene Woma last year on WOBP from PHR. Kevin also acknowledged and changed his sterling HGW this year because of PHR's Sterling HGW. This is a fact proven in correspondence. Stop trying to say their animal isn't a Hidden Gene Woma. It is just different from the Granite Hidden Gene Woma and that is what they are saying. You are posting nice Granite Hidden Gene Woma crosses but they are going to be different then the PHR's Original Hidden Gene Woma Crosses. I am not taking anything away from your snakes as they are nice. But the crosses are going to be a little different period. You guys just need to accept that and get over it. The truth is PHR's Original Hidden Gene Woma looks much closer to Kevin's Original Hidden Gene Woma picture he posted. They are both regular looking womas with flames. No other regular looking Womas have flames. Some of PHR's crosses are different then yours but they should be as your Granite HGW is different then the Original Hidden Gene Woma. Just accept that there is two types of Hidden Gene Womas as Kevin showed in the pic of the founding animal which definitely was not looking like your Granite Hidden Gene Womas. PHR also made the Pewter Soul Sucker since Kevin acknowledged the other crosses proven in correspondence. Kevin's admission in his correspondence is all the proof PHR needs. They don't need to make any animals to prove to anyone anymore. This is over Matt. You just need to accept it as Kevin did in his correspondence with the WOBP over a year ago.
K. Matthews (a proud buyer of phr ball pythons)

Correspondence, you keep saying that word..i'm not sure you know what it means. To date, PHR reptiles has yet to post proof other than an in shed woma , there have been no emails, despite NUMEROUS people asking for them

Also, while they may not be -exactly- like matt's (which are extremely beautiful) they should follow a "breeding standard" of sorts, (which is how even the lowest grade pastel can be identified as such, and a normal never something more visually) Nothing PHR has posted comes close to Matt's (or other's that have posted their animals for debate).

However, PHR's balls are pretty, but it's kindof 'cocky' to call them -original- HGW.

I really hope your stance is based upon wanting to avoid finding out that any animals you bought from PHR may not be what you thought they were.

 

[Ghi Reptiles]

Matt, It obvious to me that they aren't going to make the exact crosses as your Granite Hidden Gene Womas. The fact of the matter is, Kevin acknowledged a Super Pastel Hidden Gene Woma last year on WOBP from PHR. Kevin also acknowledged and changed his sterling HGW this year because of PHR's Sterling HGW. This is a fact proven in correspondence. Stop trying to say their animal isn't a Hidden Gene Woma. It is just different from the Granite Hidden Gene Woma and that is what they are saying. You are posting nice Granite Hidden Gene Woma crosses but they are going to be different then the PHR's Original Hidden Gene Woma Crosses. I am not taking anything away from your snakes as they are nice. But the crosses are going to be a little different period. You guys just need to accept that and get over it. The truth is PHR's Original Hidden Gene Woma looks much closer to Kevin's Original Hidden Gene Woma picture he posted. They are both regular looking womas with flames. No other regular looking Womas have flames. Some of PHR's crosses are different then yours but they should be as your Granite HGW is different then the Original Hidden Gene Woma. Just accept that there is two types of Hidden Gene Womas as Kevin showed in the pic of the founding animal which definitely was not looking like your Granite Hidden Gene Womas. PHR also made the Pewter Soul Sucker since Kevin acknowledged the other crosses proven in correspondence. Kevin's admission in his correspondence is all the proof PHR needs. They don't need to make any animals to prove to anyone anymore. This is over Matt. You just need to accept it as Kevin did in his correspondence with the WOBP over a year ago.
K. Matthews (a proud buyer of phr ball pythons)

Hey Kevin,

I don't get what you guys are after. If all you want is for everyone to call Joe's normal woma a hidden gene woma I would say it's not going to happen. They are obviously two very different animals and in my opinion and the opinion of everyone here except you...a powerhouse customer...what he has is a normal woma. If you are stating that the gene that makes all of the insane combos associated with the hidden gene woma is the 'granite' gene and Joe's animal doesn't have it then it's not the same snake and the offspring from it shouldn't be in the same league price wise because they are all missing this very important gene. If everyone thinks that all normal womas should be called hidden gene womas...great. They should all still be the same price as they currently are. All we would be doing is adding that the important gene in the industry is the granite gene then. Make sense?

 

[NewEnglandReptile]

Kevin Mathews,

I do not know what you are looking at when you say that I have agreed(admission???) to ANY of the things Joe and Clark are saying. I have NEVER seen these emails where I am saying any of this. I have NOT agreed with ANY of this on World of Ball Pythons, where do you see that I am agreeing to any of this? Why would I be ok with their animals being on the site when I HAVE ALL OF THE EXAMPLES in my collection? Clearly I do not, WOBP tries to manage all the morphs and it is not my job to go through each morph and correct them. Allan is doing his best and I appreciate what he does. I never told him that any of those snakes were that!

As far as saying that Matt's snake look different because there is Granite in them is a serious reach. Sorry, they don't look so different because of the Granite gene, they look different because of the REAL HG Woma gene!

Let's see how long their BOGUS morphs that are INCORRECT stay there now!

Also, if you think that the HG Woma(original) and Clark/Joe's snake look the same or similar then you should take another look.
Kevin

 

[Ghi Reptiles]

This also means that everyone who has what we term normal womas actually have hidden gene womas which don't carry the now all important 'granite' gene. So now by today's new standards male hidden gene woma babies should be about $100.00 and male hidden gene woma 'granite' babies should be about $5,000.00.

 

[ReptileJay]

Perhaps I'm reading this wrong... But in MY mind, THIS clears EVERYTHING up 100%...

[11/18/2011 12:11:31 AM] Allan Riis: Hello Clark
Are you 100% sure that there is a Hidden Gene Woma in the super pastel you sent me picture of. ?
[11/18/2011 8:12:32 AM] Clark Tucker: 100% sure that the Super Pastel Hidden Gene Woma is in fact a Super Pastel Hidden Gene Woma. My Hidden Gene Woma is not the same as 99% of the other Hidden Gene Womas that are out there these days. Most of the Hidden Gene Womas have the NERD Granite attached which makes them look very different. The granite travels with the HG Woma gene and is stuck to it like glue.
[11/18/2011 8:12:50 AM] Clark Tucker: Why do you ask that??
[11/18/2011 12:00:10 PM] Allan Riis: It was Kevin who said that it was not a Hidden Gene Woma .. which was used to create the morph ..
[11/18/2011 5:33:36 PM] Clark Tucker: Allan is that a fact?? Well Kevin doesnt know who has this mutation anymore and I am very sorry that he is mad that I did not have to pay him to get his morph. It is what it is and I should have a clutch from a 3500 gram Lesser Platinum from him very soon and when a Soul Sucker comes out of the clutch we will just see if it is or is not a Hidden Gene Woma.
[11/18/2011 8:34:29 PM] Clark Tucker: Allan, I know what is going on here. He saw that animal at the Tinley Park Show and didnt say anything about it. If you do not believe that the animal is a HG Woma that is fine you can pull the photo if you need to but the mother to this snake came out of Kevin's facility as a regular Type 1 woma and my friend has her now and this year he produced a pair of lethal gene hg woma/champagne babies. I can send you the picture of her 2011 babies if you would like to see them. The female baby died trying to shed and the male is still struggling to stay alive. They had horrible neurological problems and felt soft. Andy at NERD told my friend that he had produced the HG Woma Champagne and that the best he could ever do with them is keep them alive for 6 months. This animal is a HG WOMA I assure you!

If you can GUARANTEE 100% that the snake is a HGW, why on earth do you have to wait for a clutch that has not hatched yet in order to confirm it??

Like I said, maybe I'm missing something, but I have not seen a picture of a Soul Sucker, or ANYTHING visibly containing HGW in ANY of your pictures yet... How can you POSSIBLY guarantee something is a HGW if you have not proven it??? (not to mention it doesn't LOOK like a HGW)

I've seen this sort of thing before, and DOUBT it'll be the last time... but regardless of what ANYONE else has said, it looks like you're wrong... Kevin doesn't have to defend himself (or even say ANYTHING for that matter) since your statements and pictures say loud and clear that it's NOT HGW that you have...