I think this has gone on long enough...but how long has it been?

[hhmoore]

A while back, one of my BPs dropped some eggs. It wasn't a total surprise, as I'd paired her briefly with a male - but I'd long since pulled him because I was leaning toward selling the majority of my snakes.
Anyway, there were 3 slugs + 2 eggs that I wasn't convinced were viable. The only veining showed in a small section at one end of each egg - otherwise, when candled, they glowed yellow. (Oddly enough, these two eggs were not wrapped by the female, who was coiled around the 3 slugs.) The eggs didn't look promising, I wasn't sure I wanted to deal with babies, and I was incredibly busy...so I pulled the slugs, and put the female over the two eggs; thinking that I'd deal with them in a couple days.

Time has passed, and - surprisingly - the eggs still look good. I haven't lit them up to see if there is more veining, but they haven't discolored or collapsed. I'm of a mind to pull them and put them in the incubator...but I sort of feel like I should leave well enough alone. If they're meant to be, they'll hatch. Besides, a change in environment at this point could turn out to be harmful.
My level of distraction and disinterest was high enough that I didn't bother recording the lay date...but now - since the eggs should have crapped out if they were no good - I'm getting intrigued.
I'm thinking that they're probably about halfway through incubation - could be a little more, could be a little less...but probably not more than a week in either direction.

Throw them in the incubator, or leave them with mom? (I'm actually more interested in the rationale behind any responses)

 

[pythonpaintjobs]

I think you should leave them with mon for 2 main reasons. First you didn't really want the hassle of setting them up in the incubator. If you do this you have a more vested interest in the outcome and may be tempted to check on them periodically ect which would add more things to do to an already busy schedule. Second these eggs probably would have already fizzeled out if they were in an incubator instead of with mom. She seems to know what she's doing so why screw up a good thing? Good Luck Harold and let us know how it turns out!!

 

[hhmoore]

The incubator just got turned on for another clutch...and I'm pretty good at resisting the temptation to look.
I've incubated eggs like that before and I don't think any have survived....but I just checked them - fully veined, but tending toward the dry side. She must have worked some serious Mom Magic on those eggs. My biggest concern at this point would be the danger of over hydrating them; but I'm usually pretty good with the mixing, and would start on the dry side with those and increase the humidity over time IF I end up throwing them in the 'bator. If I keep them with her, I'll switch her tub over to damp vermiculite today.
I do think mom is looking a little more thin than I would like, so I may give in to the urge to incubate for that reason (I've tried offering her f/t mice a few times, but she hasn't taken them). I'll weigh her later, when I'm working up there.

Thanks for the input, Chris.

btw - the incubator lives in my office, and really isn't a hassle in any way. I'm mostly over the urge to do a total sellout, and not feeling anywhere near as negative about the idea of having a small number of babies to deal with this summer. In fact, I think it would be good for me...I think losing all those eggs last year without any explanation took more of a toll on my outlook than I wanted to admit.

 

[snakesRkewl]

I would say that's a personal decision based on what you'd like to do, not on what we think should be done.
I don't think incubating them yourself would alter anything, they are either good or they are not.
I also think if the mom has incubated them this long that she obviously has things under control, and as long as the humidity stays up where it should be she'll do just fine.

Your call

 

[hhmoore]

The main hazard of switching to the incubator would be the alteration of the moisture levels. Eggs can survive in a wide range of conditions, but sudden or drastic changes in those conditions can be lethal. Right now, as stated, the eggs are definitely on the dry side...enough so that I feel compelled to change something, even if it is just to put moistened vermiculite in her tub.

I think you know me well enough to know that I'm going to do what I want, lol; I was just interested in the REASONS for whatever people suggested.

 

[radera5]

Leave them with mom because if it aint broke...don't fix it. Just mist the inside of the cage a couple times a day. That will surly be enough to raise the humidity, and not near enough to cause RI or anything.

Good luck with these Harald.

Totally off topic but I never say "aint", it's just more recognizable here.

 

[Rock Star Reptile]

I think your dang lucky to not have them mold. So I would just leave them and let it play out. I hope it goes well either way you decide on.

 

[hhmoore]

I checked through some PMs, hoping to identify the date they were laid - the closest I could come was a message on May 3, telling somebody that females she was awaiting news on had finally stopped eating (one of those laid last night). I'm pretty sure I found these eggs right around that time...if not that same feeding, just a few days later; so I'm fairly comfortable guesstimating that it has been about 4-5 weeks, confirming my previous thought that they were around halfway through cooking.

I think it's mildly broke, so I've got to fix it....that doesn't necessarily mean switching, though.
I don't mist - I gave that up years ago, when I stopped keeping things I liked a whole lot more than ball pythons, lol. If I've got to mist to give them a chance, they've got to go in the incubator.

And, yes, I'm VERY surprised that these eggs survived - there wasn't enough veining in them to justify any real hope that they would. I'm giving Mom full credit on this one.

 

[hhmoore]

So, here's the thing with these eggs....they are from a 2 trait sire x a 2 trait dam, giving the following odds (statistically).

6.25% (1/16) Normal
12.5% (2/16) trait 1
12.5% (2/16) trait 2
6.25% (1/16) combo 1
6.25% (1/16) combo 2
25.0% (4/16) combo 3
12.5% (2/16) combo 4
12.5% (2/16) combo 5
6.25% (1/16) combo 6

Assuming, now, that they both survive; anybody want to cast a vote on the outcome, just for giggles?

 

[radera5]

I checked through some PMs, hoping to identify the date they were laid - the closest I could come was a message on May 3, telling somebody that females she was awaiting news on had finally stopped eating (one of those laid last night). I'm pretty sure I found these eggs right around that time...if not that same feeding, just a few days later; so I'm fairly comfortable guesstimating that it has been about 4-5 weeks, confirming my previous thought that they were around halfway through cooking.

I think it's mildly broke, so I've got to fix it....that doesn't necessarily mean switching, though.
I don't mist - I gave that up years ago, when I stopped keeping things I liked a whole lot more than ball pythons, lol. If I've got to mist to give them a chance, they've got to go in the incubator.

And, yes, I'm VERY surprised that these eggs survived - there wasn't enough veining in them to justify any real hope that they would. I'm giving Mom full credit on this one.

I had only suggested that because many of the threads I have been reading on MI, (maternal incubation) have been talking about misting.

I guess if you don't want to do that though, but you think they look like they are on the dry side, the only logical answer would be to get them in the incubator

I understand you might not be relying on this clutch or even really care, but to let eggs go bad when you already had the feeling they were going bad just seems silly to me. That is certainly not saying there aren't other solutions. I guess it comes down to how much effort you want to put into them.

Good luck either way, please keep us posted on what you decide to do and how the eggs are.

As far as your odds go, I'll guess that each egg is a combo, but not the same combo.

 

[hhmoore]

While I was joking about the Mommy Magic, I seriously didn't have any hope of those eggs surviving...if I had already had the incubator set up, I might have put them in it (and I still think they would have turned to crap if I had). To understand that, you would really have to have seen them when I found/candled them.
At this point, halfway through the incubation, I think they look promising...and I think they'll do okay in the incubator or where they are. That doesn't mean that leaving them where they are won't require some changes.

I understand you might not be relying on this clutch or even really care, but to let eggs go bad when you already had the feeling they were going bad just seems silly to me. That is certainly not saying there aren't other solutions. I guess it comes down to how much effort you want to put into them.

I don't really understand what you are trying to say. I almost threw those eggs away, but opted to leave them with Mom and give them a chance.

 

[AbsoluteApril]

6.25% (1/16) Normal

25.0% (4/16) combo 3


Assuming, now, that they both survive; anybody want to cast a vote on the outcome, just for giggles?

I say you get the two above. If I'm right do I get one? I always wanted a normal male.

 

[radera5]

While I was joking about the Mommy Magic, I seriously didn't have any hope of those eggs surviving...if I had already had the incubator set up, I might have put them in it (and I still think they would have turned to crap if I had). To understand that, you would really have to have seen them when I found/candled them.
At this point, halfway through the incubation, I think they look promising...and I think they'll do okay in the incubator or where they are. That doesn't mean that leaving them where they are won't require some changes.


I don't really understand what you are trying to say. I almost threw those eggs away, but opted to leave them with Mom and give them a chance.

I was trying to say that since you made the choice to keep them early on, do anything you can to help them now.

Unless you are doing this for research or out of curiosity of MI. I didn't think that is what you were doing though, so I still say help them any way you can.

I'm not trying to be rude or anything, I'm just conversing

 

[hhmoore]

I fully plan on doing my best to make sure those eggs survive at this point - whether that means putting them in the incubator, or leaving them with Mom. I haven't weighed her yet, but that will likely be the deciding factor - she's more important to me than the eggs, even if I didn't think they'd survive in the 'bator (which I do, now).
Not really sure where you got the idea that I was going to let them go bad, now...but maybe that's just me being dense tonight - it happens.
FWIW, just leaving them with the mother & rarely checking on them might have seemed like a crappy approach...but, as I suggested earlier, I had kind of a crappy outlook for a while. I went through the motions briefly, but separated most of the pairs fairly early on because I just wasn't into it. Them surviving, contrary to appearances & against the odds, has sparked my interest in them.

All I was doing with this thread was making conversation - I'm going to do whatever I'm going to do (Jerry was right about that). I wasn't so much interested in the opinions (on whether to continue with maternal incubation or move them into the regular incubator) as I was with people's reasons for their recommendation.

 

[radera5]

The incubator just got turned on for another clutch...and I'm pretty good at resisting the temptation to look.
I've incubated eggs like that before and I don't think any have survived....but I just checked them - fully veined, but tending toward the dry side. She must have worked some serious Mom Magic on those eggs. My biggest concern at this point would be the danger of over hydrating them; but I'm usually pretty good with the mixing, and would start on the dry side with those and increase the humidity over time IF I end up throwing them in the 'bator. If I keep them with her, I'll switch her tub over to damp vermiculite today.
I do think mom is looking a little more thin than I would like, so I may give in to the urge to incubate for that reason (I've tried offering her f/t mice a few times, but she hasn't taken them). I'll weigh her later, when I'm working up there.

Thanks for the input, Chris.

btw - the incubator lives in my office, and really isn't a hassle in any way. I'm mostly over the urge to do a total sellout, and not feeling anywhere near as negative about the idea of having a small number of babies to deal with this summer. In fact, I think it would be good for me...I think losing all those eggs last year without any explanation took more of a toll on my outlook than I wanted to admit.

I completely missed this post in the beginning. I apologize as it sounded to me like you didn't want to incubate at all and I didn't see your vermiculite idea. I really thought you were thinking of just leaving them with her as they are and not trying to help the humidity issue.

It all makes sense now

I'd say leave them with mom with the few minor changes you mentioned.

 

[hhmoore]

Gotcha

April's in with a regular and a #3 combo...anybody else? (for the record - that is a reasonable, but uninspired answer...I could get those from the clutch that was laid today. What I can't get are the following combinations, as listed above: #1, #4, #6. I don't really care about #1, and #6 is too much to hope for from a 2 egger, so I guess I'm crossing my fingers for a #4.)

 

[Snake-Queen]

I'm with most here, id leave them with mom provided her weight is ok & you put her on some vermiculite.

But what do I know. I breed mostly boas & they give live birth. LMAO

I do have a pair of Macklot's pythons, the first clutch she laid died (I wasn't expecting eggs so I let her incubate), second cluch lived with 11 (I put those in the incubator).

So basically, do what you feel is best.

 

[Snake-Queen]

12.5% (2/16) trait 2

6.25% (1/16) combo 6

My picks.

 

[hhmoore]

You caught me editing/updating my post.

 

[AbsoluteApril]

that is a reasonable, but uninspired answer...

well it doesn't have to be inspired, it just has to be right.


sticking with it but I'll cross my fingers that you get #4 and #6 combos