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Bad Guy Avangel Geckos

I'm glad he is going to come respond, no I can get an understanding of what he is doing. Like I stated before, this thread didn't need to happen, but chaz refused to conduct himself like a business man or an adult. He commented on his video that if I wanted to continue arguing to private message him. I messaged him saying that I'm not arguing but I'm trying to figure what he is talking about. He responded with the email I posted and refused to talk anymore..
 
bmr1052 said:
As far as anyone knows is there a dominant gene out there that affects the same chromosome that snow does?
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I am not aware of any gene that shares the same locus as Mack Snow.
Although, there may be a gene that mimics Snow. Plus, of course, there are genes that interact with Snow.

I just mentioned what he could have meant.

Now, if all he did was add another gene, to Mack Snow, then that would just make the critter a _______ Mack Snow or a Mack Snow ________.
I do not believe that this could be termed as one's "own line". For that, there would have to be some years of selective breeding as well.
 
Good afternoon everyone that has posted or has been watching this thread. I hope all had a good labor day. Instead of defending myself and my line, I would prefer you ask questions and I will answer them to the best of my abilities and knowledge, though I may not divulge everything in its entirety I hope I can give enough information to be able to put this topic of me being a "bad guy" to rest.
 
For the record I also dont think its worthy of a bad guy thread.

Were you wanting questions through PM's or here in this thread?
 
I originally started with the mack snow, which is true to what Byan said. As for the other morph it is called a Ray Hine. Which was thought to be a co-dom trait but with quite a few test breedings I am sure this is just a dominant trait.

As for how long I have been line breeding this trait it has been for about 5 yrs now.

The reason why I did not want to tell what the other gene is because he was not a customer. I was not actually selling them to anyone, but those that were interested in the crosses I may had up for sale, the information was given to them. He was more trying to attack my line and the other reason why it is not given out was because it was a need to know basis on who was sure they wanted to buy one. I did not want my style to be copied until I was so far along.

If you would like I can show pics of the generation phases they have went through.
 
Chaz, how was I trying to attack your line? I simply commented if this was a new line, and if so how does one create a new line? And I'm sorry but when you answered with a unclear answer, I asked you to further explain. Now you say you didn't tell me the info because its a need to know basis for people who want to buy? I'm sorry but before I hand over my hard earned money to anyone for anything I would like to know as much as possible as to what I'm buying. I tried to ask you in simpler words, how would you market the snow line.as far.as genetics go? You still kept with the whole its an avangel snow bit. yet you openly admit in your email and here that its base gene was Mack snow. Don't you think it is important to potential customers who plan on breeding that they have accurate info on the history of the animal? Nearly all my projects have snow in them and I wouldn't want to introduce say a line bred snow into the project and then not produce supers, which is my goal on my projects. I would invite everyone to go see our conversation on your video to see that I was asking you basic questions and it was you who became evasive and upset, but you erased all the comments.
 
Avangel Reptiles said:
I was not actually selling them to anyone, but those that were interested in the crosses I may had up for sale, the information was given to them.
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The crosses from the Avangel Snow were up for sale but not the Snows? I'm just trying to understand.
 
bmr1052 said:
I'm sorry but before I hand over my hard earned money to anyone for anything I would like to know as much as possible as to what I'm buying. .
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No one was holding a gun to your head requiring you to buy. If the answers were not to your liking you could have just given it all a pass. I think that a Bad Guy thread was not called for.

The answers you received may well have been how you framed your requests.
I courteously ask Chaz to show up and here he is talking away about something he obviously loves and has spent time doing..
 
Also, How does crossing 2 (apparently) co-dom traits and then line breeding the resulting animals create a new line? I just dont quite get how that works.. To me that is just a continuation of previously known genes. How does the "ray hine" gene (no sarcasm there in the quiotations) affect the mack snow gene?
 
When I first acquired the Ray Hine, I did a whole lot of researching on it because I at first did not know what it was doing when I crossed it to a tremper albino. Half the babies came out to be completely hypomelanistic and the other half was a completely normal gecko, no hypo'ing at all.

So I asked Steve Sykes about it and what he said to me is that it is one of the oldest morphs of a guy by the name of "Ray Hine" in Germany I believe. The morph did not get its chance to really survive, (I do not exactly remember why) but it fell into my hands. Yet what I have seen this morph do to a numerous amounts of morphs is unbelievable.

Lucille, to answer your question...yes.
 
Lucille said:
No one was holding a gun to your head requiring you to buy. If the answers were not to your liking you could have just given it all a pass. I think that a Bad Guy thread was not called for.

The answers you received may well have been how you framed your requests.
I courteously ask Chaz to show up and here he is talking away about something he obviously loves and has spent time doing..
Click to expand...


You are right, no one was holding a gun to my head, but I doubt you buy all of your animals by simply looking at them , then instantly sending your money and address with no questions asked.

As a business, If chaz makes certain claims as to " new lines" I am certainly intrigued and feel I have the right to ask question on such claims. I was not the only one making comments and Chaz took the same approach with the other person.

Im glad you got Chaz to come here and speak. I wish I could have done the same however, as stated in my previous post, it seemed Chaz was incapable of having a conversation or conducting business professionally or even as an adult for that matter.

Maybe the bad guy thread isnt needed in your opinion, But Chaz claims to have a firm grasp of the genetics, which leaves me with the only other conclusion of misrepresenting the animal. Someone who does this, is a " bad guy " for purposes of business dealings.
 
None taken Paul Kent.

I am going to use a few examples if you do not mind. Most of the Tangerine morphs are crosses from other tangerine morphs, and once you get what you are looking for that is far different from the original parents is what makes it a new line. I never not one time called my snow "line" and new morph. A morph is considered blizzard, mack snow, or even bells. A line is considered sunsets ( tangelo crossed blizzards that cannot be separated because the gene is now one.) Blood's, electrics, etc...

I can even use another example...pit bulls. Pit bulls are a cross between a few different dogs bred together until that breeder made the dog they were looking for. i.e. the pit bull. How is mine any different. The genes on my morph can not be separated. When a "Mack" snow hits, yes it is a "Mack" snow, but when it does not hit, its a normal.

When my gene hits. It is an enhanced snow, which was, yes, derived from mack snow, but why call my quality work a mack snow, when my snows look far different from that of a mack snow. I crossed a blood to my snow. One of the darkest tangs and still my gene conquered. Turning the gecko in to a variance of colors (when the snow does not hit. I have gotten an excess of lavender, xanthic, green...) This is something I put pride into. I would not cheat someone else, but I would not call a white T-shirt that I got from Target, a target shirt if I put the design on it. Which now I can call it my clothing line, and not targets
 
Paul Kent said:
Also, How does crossing 2 (apparently) co-dom traits and then line breeding the resulting animals create a new line? I just dont quite get how that works.. To me that is just a continuation of previously known genes. How does the "ray hine" gene (no sarcasm there in the quiotations) affect the mack snow gene?
Click to expand...

This was precisely my point I was trying to make. I can make A super snow raptor and say " well I chose only the best albinos I had and the best super snows I had, then added my cream of the crop eclipse.... and created my new genetically different Super Raptor " No matter the line breeding for choice colors or features, at the end of the day the genetics are what I started with.
 
I am still confused about the Ray Hine. Ray Hine is a person who bred Leos. Thus, not a morph. However, there are Leos that are of the Ray Hine line. Do you know what the base morph is on the Ray Hine line Leos you are using (or have used)?
 
Avangel Reptiles said:
None taken Paul Kent.


... I would not cheat someone else, but I would not call a white T-shirt that I got from Target, a target shirt if I put the design on it. Which now I can call it my clothing line, and not targets
Click to expand...

So you buy a hanes shirt, add your design on front, and according to your logic, it ceases to be a hanes shirt?

The point I tried to make in my email to you was similar to your example... Why not just say they are mack snows that we put our pride and effort into to make the highest quality leo we could, and they are superior in quality to others on the market.... that would have been a good answer. But you are so adamant to distance yourself from mack snow.
 
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