Bad Guy Perfect Predators..unreliable

[Amelanistic Orca]

I just banged my knee for being mean to ya on my desk... In all seriousness; chill out and enjoy all your new animals dude. Just QT 'em, I'm sure you know that with 30 in! Be good!

 

[meowmeowkazoo]

I tried to explain my reasoning, and I get attacked for it. Repeatedly. Apex, I've had a lot of respect for you in the past, but it's obvious any attempt on my part to explain further is going to result in further attacks from you. A person shouldn't be attacked just for daring to disagree with the popular opinion.

 

[reticguy76]

This thread is killin me ! Honesty, integrity and proper ethics/morals are very retro now days, and rare.

 

[Fangthane]

I tried to explain my reasoning, and I get attacked for it. Repeatedly. Apex, I've had a lot of respect for you in the past, but it's obvious any attempt on my part to explain further is going to result in further attacks from you. A person shouldn't be attacked just for daring to disagree with the popular opinion.

I think your reasoning has already been thoroughly expounded upon. I just vehemently disagree with you. And, apparently, I'm not alone. If you're trying to imply that I'm in any rush to fall in line with the popular opinion, and that I let others' opinions dictate my own, I'd have to suspect that you haven't seen a whole lot of my posts.

Keep harping on my supposed "attacks". Say it enough times and maybe it'll suddenly become true. Good luck with that. You seem to want to make this into something personal, however, it's not. When I log off, you cease to exist. You presented your case, I disputed it. No more, no less.

 

[meowmeowkazoo]

I stand by my opinion that the behavior in this thread toward PP has been far harsher than warranted by the crime. I'm not trying to imply or insinuate anything else. If that makes me "as bad as the seller" then so be it.

 

[ShadowAceD]

I stand by my opinion that the behavior in this thread toward PP has been far harsher than warranted by the crime. I'm not trying to imply or insinuate anything else. If that makes me "as bad as the seller" then so be it.

You're really taking opinions that differ from yours too personally. This has nothing to do with how anyone feels about you, Manny or anyone else, it has everything to do with people being handed the details to a situation and using their own deductive reasoning skills to come to an educated conclusion on how they feel about the situation.

I feel that there is no excuse for a seller to consistently fail to fulfill their end of a deal when they promise to ship over and over again. I also feel there is no excuse for a seller's story to change pertaining to said animals that are to be shipped from day to day.

Some people think the OP should have just took their refund and left. Some do not.

Even if this was based on principle alone, I agree with it.

Had Manny not promised to ship and then failed and had he kept his story straight on whether the animals fed or not, this would be a whole situation together. Also, if Manny had chosen to be more mature about the situation once posted on the BOI, the situation could have changed as well. But that did not happen. In fact, Manny blames everything on the OP postponing shipping for two weeks which he feels justifies his failure to follow through following it. Manny seems to think "eye for an eye" is how this works and if that is his business model, I will gladly steer clear.

I fail to see the logic behind the mentality that "the whole situation goes away if the person is refunded", because that is not really what this is about. Manny offered the refund to make it go away, but it does not excuse his overall negligence in the matter.

 

[meowmeowkazoo]

You're really taking opinions that differ from yours too personally. This has nothing to do with how anyone feels about you, Manny or anyone else, it has everything to do with people being handed the details to a situation and using their own deductive reasoning skills to come to an educated conclusion on how they feel about the situation.

I feel that there is no excuse for a seller to consistently fail to fulfill their end of a deal when they promise to ship over and over again. I also feel there is no excuse for a seller's story to change pertaining to said animals that are to be shipped from day to day.

Some people think the OP should have just took their refund and left. Some do not.

Even if this was based on principle alone, I agree with it.

Had Manny not promised to ship and then failed and had he kept his story straight on whether the animals fed or not, this would be a whole situation together. Also, if Manny had chosen to be more mature about the situation once posted on the BOI, the situation could have changed as well. But that did not happen. In fact, Manny blames everything on the OP postponing shipping for two weeks which he feels justifies his failure to follow through following it. Manny seems to think "eye for an eye" is how this works and if that is his business model, I will gladly steer clear.

I fail to see the logic behind the mentality that "the whole situation goes away if the person is refunded", because that is not really what this is about. Manny offered the refund to make it go away, but it does not excuse his overall negligence in the matter.

Well, my post was largely in reference to Apex saying that me "defending" the seller made me as bad as he was. It's possible I'm taking things too personally, though I try not to.

I am not trying to defend Manny's behavior so much as I was shocked by the language being used, such as saying that Manny "gleefully lied" about the snakes.

The way I see it, he had multiple het pieds. Some were eating, some were not. He failed to communicate that clearly, which led to the assumption that he was lying about whether or not they were eating.

It seems silly to me to accuse him of lying about this, because he deals with animals that are worth tens of thousands of dollars. What would he gain from lying about some low end ball pythons?

I was trying to counter what seemed to me to be an extreme bias against the seller. There were some ugly words being used to describe him.

I wasn't trying to say that Manny was guiltless here. Just that there was practically a lynch mob forming over a relatively harmless issue.

I'm not friends with Manny, and I don't know him personally. This isn't the first time I've gotten in trouble for defending someone I don't know, so I suppose in the future I should just keep my mouth shut.

 

[ShadowAceD]

Well, my post was largely in reference to Apex saying that me "defending" the seller made me as bad as he was. It's possible I'm taking things too personally, though I try not to.

I am not trying to defend Manny's behavior so much as I was shocked by the language being used, such as saying that Manny "gleefully lied" about the snakes.

The way I see it, he had multiple het pieds. Some were eating, some were not. He failed to communicate that clearly, which led to the assumption that he was lying about whether or not they were eating.

It seems silly to me to accuse him of lying about this, because he deals with animals that are worth tens of thousands of dollars. What would he gain from lying about some low end ball pythons?

I was trying to counter what seemed to me to be an extreme bias against the seller. There were some ugly words being used to describe him.

I wasn't trying to say that Manny was guiltless here. Just that there was practically a lynch mob forming over a relatively harmless issue.

I'm not friends with Manny, and I don't know him personally. This isn't the first time I've gotten in trouble for defending someone I don't know, so I suppose in the future I should just keep my mouth shut.

In the e-mails posted by the OP's boss' wife, Manny stated that he would not ship on Monday, I believe it was, because the BPs had full bellies. He did not denote, at all, that any of the BPs were failing to eat in that instance, but later comes back to say that not everyone is eating. So, yes, it does appear to be dishonest.

Just because someone deals with animals worth 10K or more and just because someone has a "big name" does not excuse them from basic mistakes or human error. No, it may not be logical for Manny to not be straight forward with these things, but just because something is illogical does not mean it will not or cannot occur. That was the point I was making earlier. Just because you have a "big name", you are not excuse from neglecting "simple" mistakes. In fact, if it was such a "simple" issue, then Manny should not have made such a big deal about it being brought to the BOI.

There are numerous instances of Bad Guy Threads being started that ultimately turn into Good Guy Threads in the end. The icon color on a thread is not an end all be all. It is how you deal with it that matters in determining if the thread is "valid" or not.

 

[reticguy76]

I think the point is that, whether an animal is 10 bucks or 50,000, customer service and ethical selling should be straight across the board. I believe it was said earlier, if he has too many animals and is too busy to keep contact and such, then he needs to hire more people or slim down his stock. If he has enough people and the ball is just getting dropped, then he needs to let the ones he has go and get better communcators in. Its a customer service hobby/business, that should be the MAIN priority.

 

[meowmeowkazoo]

In the e-mails posted by the OP's boss' wife, Manny stated that he would not ship on Monday, I believe it was, because the BPs had full bellies. He did not denote, at all, that any of the BPs were failing to eat in that instance, but later comes back to say that not everyone is eating. So, yes, it does appear to be dishonest.

Just because someone deals with animals worth 10K or more and just because someone has a "big name" does not excuse them from basic mistakes or human error. No, it may not be logical for Manny to not be straight forward with these things, but just because something is illogical does not mean it will not or cannot occur. That was the point I was making earlier. Just because you have a "big name", you are not excuse from neglecting "simple" mistakes. In fact, if it was such a "simple" issue, then Manny should not have made such a big deal about it being brought to the BOI.

There are numerous instances of Bad Guy Threads being started that ultimately turn into Good Guy Threads in the end. The icon color on a thread is not an end all be all. It is how you deal with it that matters in determining if the thread is "valid" or not.

I actually didn't disagree with anything you posted earlier. I was mostly disagreeing with the way that the OP and Apex were handling things.

I completely agree that dealing with expensive animals or having a big name doesn't excuse anyone from neglecting customer service or making simple mistakes.

Manny absolutely should have noted that the ball pythons were not eating in the ad. I suppose the fact that he did not could be considered dishonest, but saying that he gleefully lied about things is far too extreme. It makes him sound like a petty criminal that took great joy in yanking the customer's chain, which makes no sense based on the evidence presented. If anything, he seemed eager to be rid of the customer.

I also have no problem with the OP making a "bad guy" thread about this, though in my opinion this is a borderline bad guy thread at best. It would have worked as an Info thread as well, but that was the OP's choice.

It seems that people are reading a great deal into my posts that isn't necessarily true or accurate. I do feel like I'm being treated like a "bad guy" by Apex just because I disagree with what he's posting. It does hurt to have someone I admired talk to me like that when I feel was being respectful. It feels like people are assuming that I'm defending Manny so that I can get a special deal, or because I'm stupid. All of that is pretty easy to take personally.

But all that aside, I'm not trying to say that this thread is invalid or that the OP's complaint is invalid. I'm not trying to say that at all. I was only bothered by the extreme accusations going on. But Manny doesn't seem bothered by them so I suppose it doesn't really matter in the end.

 

[meowmeowkazoo]

I think the point is that, whether an animal is 10 bucks or 50,000, customer service and ethical selling should be straight across the board. I believe it was said earlier, if he has too many animals and is too busy to keep contact and such, then he needs to hire more people or slim down his stock. If he has enough people and the ball is just getting dropped, then he needs to let the ones he has go and get better communcators in. Its a customer service hobby/business, that should be the MAIN priority.

I completely agree.

 

[Fangthane]

I actually didn't disagree with anything you posted earlier. I was mostly disagreeing with the way that the OP and Apex were handling things.

And it seems like you've gone pretty far out of your way to focus on everyone BUT the person that was responsible for this thread having been posted. Not Apex, or the OP; but Manny, himself. His actions brought this whole thing about. Any small degree of responsibility that you've chosen to give Manny has basically been qualified with a "But..".

Manny absolutely should have noted that the ball pythons were not eating in the ad. I suppose the fact that he did not could be considered dishonest, but saying that he gleefully lied about things is far too extreme. It makes him sound like a petty criminal that took great joy in yanking the customer's chain, which makes no sense based on the evidence presented. If anything, he seemed eager to be rid of the customer.

You "suppose" that telling lies is dishonest? Really? Again, you're focusing on "gleefully", as if it's somehow important. I have to doubt that he cried about his conscious choices to lie, but whether or not regretted those decisions, he still willingly chose that path.

I also have no problem with the OP making a "bad guy" thread about this, though in my opinion this is a borderline bad guy thread at best. It would have worked as an Info thread as well, but that was the OP's choice.

Pointless and irrelevant semantics. You're free to choose to discount Manny's degree of guilt, or just how wrong his actions were. Clearly, the OP, any many others, don't agree with your perspective.

It seems that people are reading a great deal into my posts that isn't necessarily true or accurate. I do feel like I'm being treated like a "bad guy" by Apex just because I disagree with what he's posting. It does hurt to have someone I admired talk to me like that when I feel was being respectful. It feels like people are assuming that I'm defending Manny so that I can get a special deal, or because I'm stupid. All of that is pretty easy to take personally.

It wouldn't be the first, or last, time that people have had ulterior motives for their choice to back someone. Not that I buy into a "majority rules" mindset regarding BOI threads, but when pretty much everyone disagrees with you, it may be time to seriously rethink your stance.

We're all being judged by our posts; myself no less than you. If you think that people aren't constantly updating "The List", based even on posts by those who aren't direct principals in any given situation, you're fooling yourself. When people see someone backing a lame horse, they may be inclined to hold it against that person. I think you're just a bit thin-skinned.

 

[Lucille]

This isn't the first time I've gotten in trouble for defending someone I don't know, so I suppose in the future I should just keep my mouth shut.

Always say what you believe, and don't let trouble silence you.
But always be willing to go back for another look, sometimes, someone's post whether quiet or insistent, may shed new light on an issue, and may change how you view it.

 

[meowmeowkazoo]

Upon reflection I realize that I was a bit emotional when I originally posted in this thread. I believe that my gut reaction to defend Perfect Predators was in error. I'd like to apologize to the OP and everyone else for causing undue drama in this thread. Lucille is right, and after taking another look I can't continue to defend the actions of the seller.

 

[TexasSnake]

Respected Members -

I am new to this site/board/forum and am amazed at how much effort was put into this thread by the purchaser who was given the oppportunity for an immediately refund on common snakes...quick fix...problem solved. It also amazes me how many people strive off drama and spend so much time repeatedly posting opinions to problems that aren't even theirs....believe me, this will be my one and only post, merely to express my opinion and hopefully stimulate the minds of people with too much time on their hands, then I'm off to higher priority items (such as watching paint dry, performing Google searches for the type and size of Gourds tribesmen wear in the winter, hoping Obama doesn't get re-elected, and playing with my capuchin monkey...lol).

We're not talking super rare and exotic BP's that can't be purchased almost anywhere...we are talking about a low priced group sold for pocket change. I agree price shouldn't determine a positive buying experience but logic should kick in at some point if you are not happy with the situation and can get a refund on COMMON snakes

I recently had 2 negative buying experiences while stocking my boa collection and would have performed triple axle roundhouse backflips on ice with one broken ice skate if either seller would have offered me an immediate refund to avoid the hassels I had to endure.

In this case the seller should have taken the refund, while acknowledging he could buy those common snakes at almost any 7 eleven (faceciously spoken) at the first inclination of an issue (though I'm not convinced there was a legitimate issue), not wasted hours on end with redundant posts, and avoided slandering a businessman who has obviously engaged in tremendously more positive transactions than negative ones (which no one but the buyer and seller really even know the whole truth).

Also, keep in mind...the only way to know the whole truth is to be directly involved AND in addition have a logical mindset.

I feel this forum (my opinion) should be reserved for people trying to rip off others, not someone more than willing to offer a refund to an unsatisfied buyer (for whatever reason).

I will post a legitimate negative buying experience worth posting (after I take a break from this) so that no one deals with a real snake in the grass (Derril Geller from FL). There is another thread created by him I just noticed. This guy is a real scammer and sold me a deformed Moonglow and it was hell getting a refund until finally utilizing PayPal's claim protocol successfully...

For the record, I would purchase from Perfect Predators even after reading this thread because he tried to refund and all the responses I read were in a timely manner, even if not what the purchaser wanted to hear. Again why a refund wasn't accepted is beyond me if not happy with events...I can attest, when truly being taken advantage of, this would be considered a dream come true.

Good luck Perfect Predators with production and sales of many more first class morphs and to the buyer(s) with learning to differentiate between someone really out to take advantage of you and miscommunication (possibly coupled with impatience).

JW

 

[Bobby Douglass]

Justin, the op was lied to. Whether you think he should find that a big enough deal to post about or not is irrelevant. I appreciate having all the information I can about a seller.

 

[John Willis SOE]

nice of you to chime in on this and give so much opinion for your first post on the forum.

 

[ShadowAceD]

Respected Members -

I am new to this site/board/forum and am amazed at how much effort was put into this thread by the purchaser who was given the oppportunity for an immediately refund on common snakes...quick fix...problem solved. It also amazes me how many people strive off drama and spend so much time repeatedly posting opinions to problems that aren't even theirs....believe me, this will be my one and only post, merely to express my opinion and hopefully stimulate the minds of people with too much time on their hands, then I'm off to higher priority items (such as watching paint dry, performing Google searches for the type and size of Gourds tribesmen wear in the winter, hoping Obama doesn't get re-elected, and playing with my capuchin monkey...lol).

Perhaps you should take the time to look up the definition of "peer pressure" and then understand the purpose of the BOI and just how it functions.

Also, your political views have no place in this thread and are off topic, as are many things you feel the need to speak about while attempting to belittle those who do partake in the BOI. Your opinion on this problem, as it is not yours, by your own admisison, is no more valid than anyone else's. It makes your holier than thou attitude all the more amusing.

We're not talking super rare and exotic BP's that can't be purchased almost anywhere...we are talking about a low priced group sold for pocket change. I agree price shouldn't determine a positive buying experience but logic should kick in at some point if you are not happy with the situation and can get a refund on COMMON snakes

It does not matter how "rare" or "hard to get" those ball pythons were, they were what the buyer wanted and they were what were promised to the buyer by the seller. It is irrelevant on how "easy" they are to obtain elsewhere.

I recently had 2 negative buying experiences while stocking my boa collection and would have performed triple axle roundhouse backflips on ice with one broken ice skate if either seller would have offered me an immediate refund to avoid the hassels I had to endure

In this case the seller should have taken the refund, while acknowledging he could buy those common snakes at almost any 7 eleven (faceciously spoken) at the first inclination of an issue (though I'm not convinced there was a legitimate issue), not wasted hours on end with redundant posts, and avoided slandering a businessman who has obviously engaged in tremendously more positive transactions than negative ones (which no one but the buyer and seller really even know the whole truth)..

Also, keep in mind...the only way to know the whole truth is to be directly involved AND in addition have a logical mindset.

The only person obligated to do anything in this matter was the seller, who should have shipped the snakes when he said he would and should not have lied (or been confused) about what animals had eaten and what animals had not eaten. The e-mails posted, which have not been disputed by the seller, show that.

Also, keep in mind...the only way to know the whole truth is to be directly involved AND in addition have a logical mindset.

I feel this forum (my opinion) should be reserved for people trying to rip off others, not someone more than willing to offer a refund to an unsatisfied buyer (for whatever reason).

Failing to provide the animals someone bought after telling you that you were going to does not appear to be someone attempting to rip someone off? Curious.

I will post a legitimate negative buying experience worth posting (after I take a break from this) so that no one deals with a real snake in the grass (Derril Geller from FL). There is another thread created by him I just noticed. This guy is a real scammer and sold me a deformed Moonglow and it was hell getting a refund until finally utilizing PayPal's claim protocol successfully...

The BOI does not allow off topic posting. Perhaps you should have read the rules before offering up your higher opinions?

For the record, I would purchase from Perfect Predators even after reading this thread because he tried to refund and all the responses I read were in a timely manner, even if not what the purchaser wanted to hear. Again why a refund wasn't accepted is beyond me if not happy with events...I can attest, when truly being taken advantage of, this would be considered a dream come true.

Good for you.

Good luck Perfect Predators with production and sales of many more first class morphs and to the buyer(s) with learning to differentiate between someone really out to take advantage of you and miscommunication (possibly coupled with impatience).

JW

Yeah, it's weird when people expect to get what they want when they are told they are going to get it. People need to learn to be more patient. It's not until the tenth failed attempt at getting their product that they should complain.

 

[TexasSnake]

POST NUMBER 2 FOR ME

Justin, the op was lied to. Whether you think he should find that a big enough deal to post about or not is irrelevant. I appreciate having all the information I can about a seller.

People can have different experiences with a common party (same applies to personal relationships in life) and unless someone is scamming you should formulate your own assessment(s), through experiences of your own regarding the quality of business someone is operating...just my $0.02

nice of you to chime in on this and give so much opinion for your first post on the forum.

Sorry, John...I didn't realize my 1st post was supposed to be limited in opinion or content. I am indeed new to this forum, not to business, general buying experiences, or boas.

But if you were serious, you are sincerely welcome...I hope I came across as intellectual and informative with substantiated and logical rationale.

JW

 

[Bobby Douglass]

People can have different experiences with a common party (same applies to personal relationships in life) and unless someone is scamming you should formulate your own assessment(s), through experiences of your own regarding the quality of business someone is operating...just my $0.02



Sorry, John...I didn't realize my 1st post was supposed to be limited in opinion or content. I am indeed new to this forum, not to business, general buying experiences, or boas.

But if you were serious, you are sincerely welcome...I hope I came across as intellectual and informative with substantiated and logical rationale.

JW

Why? Just because you say so? Who should be the judge on when someone is actually "scamming"?