Info Thomas Dorn - aeterrabyte

[Shaun33]

So she ate on Saturday. Bad mouse? Did you dethaw the mouse?

1. Look at the video that is the condition
2. On saturday she was ok, sunday was when she got really bad
3. Thats already answered. Remember asked and answered.

 

[laterob]

So the vet didn't use a term for the condition? Did he/she just tell you the snake was junk, defective, broken (what else have you said?)

 

[Rock Star Reptile]

POST ALL VET DOCUMENTATION.. RECEIPTS ETC FOR ALL TO SEE PLEASE.
Ted Adams @ RR

 

[aeterrabyte]

So the vet didn't use a term for the condition? Did he/she just tell you the snake was junk, defective, broken (what else have you said?)

Tomorrow you will see the report. He said. Ain't no point in testing for IBD because the tests are not even that good. It could be could not be. It could also be a serious genetic problem. He said tube feeding water would not have done this. And no trama around the mouth or neck. He said he wants the snake to go back. And that was before I even opened my mouth up.

 

[mikew1234]

Thomas, a responsible breeder and seller would need heat packs anyway. I would go ahead and purchase them. If she dies before you ship her back, then you have them if, and that is a big if you do get business in the future. Then go tomorrow and get the note stating she should survive shipping. Wait the 2 more days for te heat packs. If she makes it, which you claim she won't, ship her back. If she dies before then, contact rob and see what the next course of action would be.

 

[Charlotte&Loki]

Tube feeding water wouldn't have done it but cramming a tube down its throat sure could've. Are you investigating the mouse? Did you tell the vet you fed the 22nd?

 

[laterob]

Mike is the voice of reason again!

Oh, and as for that other thread, lots of old-timers would tell you that you aint nobody til you got at least 1 red X. It's like a love-bite.

 

[mikew1234]

Not the tube feeding.. The inexperienced tube feeding can. Your vet report just does not check out. No vet will go and say oh you got a poorly bred animal in regards to upsetting the customer. Also, again, did you converse with this dr about the genetic wobble which comes with te morph?

 

[laterob]

serious genetic problem

Maybe it skips a generation? Because Mom, Dad, and brother are fine (they've all survived past the 18-day mark), as are the dozen or so of their cousins I've sold on Fauna.

 

[laterob]

...unless you mean the wobble? I thought you said you were going to teacch the vet about that...

 

[Pasodama]

The doctor said there is no point in testing for IBD and that the snake should just be sent back to the breeder. There was nothing I could have done to make the snake exhibit this condition in the time frame that I had it.

If a vet ever told me that there is nothing an owner could do (re. husbandry or other), to cause a snake to be in that condition within a day (or, especially, within a couple of weeks), I would be looking for a new vet!

Now to comment on a few other things.

There is a big difference between dry skin and dehydration.
A snake, that is, in fact, dehydrated will not have its skin ~instantly~ gain its elasticity with a simple application of water upon its skin.
Perhaps it could work for some external dryness, at best, but not for dehydration.
A dehydrated snake will, also, (as some others have mentioned) not pass urates within a minute of putting a drop of water into its mouth ... or was that 3 drops into its mouth?... or was that tubing it?... or? ... story keeps changing.

No matter what, tubing is always stressful to a snake. I will not "bash" the act of tubing water, into a snake, because, sometimes, it is helpful (~only where it is truly necessary~). It is best, though, if it is done subcutaneously.
However, it can also be a detriment if tubing is done improperly. Also, I think that, in this case, it was very unnecessary (at the least end).

For you to say that it is more likely for an alien to have caused this, before it could be due to a "bad" mouse, is absolutely ludicrous. A mouse actually could come into contact with "who knows what" that is toxic to a snake. Heck, I even know of one gal whose snake was seriously/negatively affected by a mouse that had a piece of metal wire (cage diameter wire) on/in it!

You are right, a Boa can harbor IBD for a long time. However, a Python cannot. In a Python, it will show itself, rather quickly, and the Python will die in short time. Also, since your KB is being "quarantined", in the same space as your other new Ball Pythons, it would be unlikely for the others to show no ill effects (of contracting it) if the KB did, indeed, have IBD.

The snake appears to be exhibiting neurological problems.
Could be the Spider gene at play or it could be due to a number of other things besides IBD (i.e. poisoning, overheating, etc.).
I have seen snakes exhibiting similar movement/condition from overheating, stress inducing a genetic neurological condition to worsen (oftentimes improving, over some time, and sometimes not), a retrovirus (which is not the IBD virus), poisoning, etc.

While there is no blame, for you to consider IBD, it is reckless, at best, to instantly throw out a claim, of IBD, unless it can be proven. It is also reckless, and narrow minded, to not explore other possibilities.

Personally, at this point (from what I have seen/read, & without further info/facts, & although there is the slightest chance I could be wrong), I do not believe that the snake had a preexisting condition (aside from the Spider gene) and that the problem started with, &/or lies with, you (or something that occurred at your location).

Whatever the case, I am hoping the best for this snake.
I also pray that you will rein yourself in enough to look at things with an open mind and a clear head. All possible scenarios should be looked at &/or considered (yes, even your husbandry).
Take the advice/suggestions given to you and explore them.
Plus, for pete's sake, please quit handling the KB so much. Am sure all the handling/video taping/etc. is doing her stress level no favors.

 

[Slyther83]

Sue him with the letter from the vet. Thats all I need. Vets word is what matters. It's not going to go past the credit card company. They will just charge him back. The letter from the vet is all I need to do that.

Do you know anything about chargebacks? AMEX is one of the few cards that is a boon to thief buyers, but something tells me that you don't have one. Paypal will conduct an investigation and correspond with your card company.

That being said, Paypal does not fare well for buyers regarding disputed animal shipments. Fortunately, most breeders are understanding of legitimate problems and honor their guarantees.

This is likely how your chargeback will pan out, best case for you:

Paypal reviews the chargeback and sides with seller given the nature of this sort of transaction (feel free to do some research on this). Your bank might take the money from Paypal and give it to you, sure. You'll end up owing Paypal the difference, have a locked account with them, and end up in collections.

 

[snakehobbyist]

Wow. I have just wasted two hours of my life reading a thread about a buyer who made a mistake and who is not trying to blame his own misfortunes on the buyer.

Rob, I'd love to do business with you in the future. You've been nothing but helpful and professional through all of this, despite all the slander and threads. I applaud you.

Thomas, grow up. Please, learn to take care of the animals you have before you go on a buying spree and purchase more than you can handle. Learn how to PROPERLY quarantine your animals. Learn how to properly house and feed your ball pythons. Learn about dehydration and shedding and how to distinguish between the two. Please ask for professional help before you start force-feeding or force-watering. Find a REPTILE vet (not just an exotic vet) that treats reptiles to take your sick animals to....a vet that will do more than just a physical exam (and if you simply refused treatment, then I have zero sympathy for you). But most importantly, please do not breed your animals! I cannot help but wonder how many will die in your care.

Remind me not to buy from you ever. In fact, if you ever see one of my own ads, please don't bother responding.

 

[laterob]

Sue him with the letter from the vet.

Wait....I thought the letter was going to say she was healthy enough to ship? You admitted here that YOU DIDN'T EVEN ASK.

 

[snakehobbyist]

Wow. I have just wasted two hours of my life reading a thread about a buyer who made a mistake and who is trying to blame his own misfortunes on the buyer.

Rob, I'd love to do business with you in the future. You've been nothing but helpful and professional through all of this, despite all the slander and threads. I applaud you.

Thomas, grow up. Please, learn to take care of the animals you have before you go on a buying spree and purchase more than you can handle. Learn how to PROPERLY quarantine your animals. Learn how to properly house and feed your ball pythons. Learn about dehydration and shedding and how to distinguish between the two. Please ask for professional help before you start force-feeding or force-watering. Find a REPTILE vet (not just an exotic vet) that treats reptiles to take your sick animals to....a vet that will do more than just a physical exam (and if you simply refused treatment, then I have zero sympathy for you). But most importantly, please do not breed your animals! I cannot help but wonder how many will die in your care.

Remind me not to buy from you ever. In fact, if you ever see one of my own ads, please don't bother responding.

I made a typo in my rush to post this. My apologies.

 

[parrotlady]

I have had the pleasure to read all 30 plus pages of posts some are very straight forward and others are just nonsense. When I purchase animals the first thing I do is take the animals to a herp vet and have them totally checked out within the fist 24 hours. That includes, weighing, fecals, overall health ck and any other tests the vet thinks is necessary for their health and well being. Also, this gives the vet a baseline to go by if something comes up at a later date. I do this if the animal costs $100 or $500. I value all of my animals. I choose not to risk them, I also follow strict quarantine guidelines.

I am amazed that you don't have a herp vet that you use on a regular basis. That is if you have been breeding or raising animals for any length of time.

Also, if you choose to take legal action in California you have a lot to learn. It is very doubtful that you can win based on all of the facts listed in this forum. I hope you have the financial means to cover the court costs, costs to have Rob served plus your traveling expenses, which by the way you will not be able to recover.

 

[Darwin]

If anyone has a solid case in court, it sounds like the seller would against the buyer for defamation, libel in particular. The buyer claimed that the seller sold him a sick snake, accusations of IBD, defamation of character, etc. without any evidence to back up these claims.

There are several ways a person must go about proving that libel has taken place. For example, in the United States, first, the person must prove that the statement was false. Second, the person must prove that the statement caused harm. Third, the person must prove that the statement was made without adequate research into the truthfulness of the statement.

 

[aeterrabyte]

Hey guys stop writing so much because it's not helpfully and It is making it difficult for me and rob to communicate.

 

[aeterrabyte]

Mike is the voice of reason again!

Oh, and as for that other thread, lots of old-timers would tell you that you aint nobody til you got at least 1 red X. It's like a love-bite.

What mike said is reasonable. Tomorrow when I get the letter from the vet, I will post it on here. Then I will call and ask them if it's ok to ship her back. Once I do that Rob will have to send me his address to send the snake back.

What if he says no tomorrow, that she is not safe to ship?

Do we have an agreement rob?

 

[Lucille]

Hey guys stop writing so much because it's not helpfully and It is making it difficult for me and rob to communicate.

For someone who just initiated a bad guy thread, it takes a lot of nerve for you to say what you just said.