Bad Guy Geoffrey Marshall Aka Geomeleon or chamcapture

[Bobby Douglass]

LoL. You want to attack me now? Show of hands, people. Who's never sent money to a trusted seller using PP Gift to avoid the fees?

I never have nor have I been asked to.

 

[Dennis Hultman]

Hey geo here's the whole convo we had that you lost. Point out where it says he has a scar please
View attachment 484060

As others have pointed out, start at the top of the discussion please. I would also like to see where you inquired about the animal and his first response.

 

[laterob]

<---hand goes up. No a bandwagonner. Both look bad; seller looks MUCH worse, based on what's been presented, in my opinion.

 

[chaosaffect]

<---hand goes up. No a bandwagonner. Both look bad; seller looks MUCH worse, based on what's been presented, in my opinion.

I don't think it matters TBH. The fact that they both look bad is enough. Does anyone want to do business with the lesser idiot? They're still an idiot...

 

[BornInBlood]

OP filed a claim under false pretenses for a transaction which was conducted and completed under false pretenses. From the evidence presented, the seller was the one who initiated the idea of defrauding PayPal. I didn't realize violating PayPal policy is only "unforgivable" if you do it with a stranger, so I learned something new tonight.

When you send payment using the method the seller insisted three times that the buyer use, you do not have the traditional means of dispute or protection that a business transaction has. Don't believe me? Just go browse the PayPal forums. I will agree that filing a claim under "unauthorized payment" wasn't the brightest idea, but Mr. Mafia probably thought he was SOL when he received a misrepresented animal and panicked. It's not like he had a myriad of options to choose from and randomly decided to pick the one which would work against him.

What Mr. Mafia needs to do, as Mr. Hultman and others have noted, is to post the entirety of the PMs. He has posted most of it, but to prove that there was no mention of any scars or burns, post the whole thing, even if it takes multiple screenshots.

If you want to talk about something being "damning", the entire PM conversation posted with no mention of any burns or scars (despite Mr. Marshall's claim of full disclosure) would be the definition of it.

Sadly, both buyer and seller end up losing here. As Mr. Allen noted, neither has really made a case for why anyone should do business with them. While Mr. Marshall claims he isn't a breeder and therefore doesn't need a reputation, that simply isn't the case. Your word is your bond and your reputation is everything.

 

[Mafia89]

What if 'unauthorized 'transaction' is the only form of dispute for a gift?

You are exactly right. You have only 2 possible things to click on the page. File dispute or file unauthorized claim. When u click on file a claim and enter the transaction number PayPal doesnt recognize the number as a valid number because of the family option this guy pushed me into using. The only way to secure my money is to have PayPal hold it til this mess gets straightened out. I don't even want a full refund. I'm more than glad to keep him. if you would have just tried to work the deal out that you turned sour in the first place we wouldn't be here. All you had to do is offer to compensate me and I would have let you slide on your first mistake of trying to pull this grand scandal.
Your third mistake was coming on here and spewing nothing but straight lies. You should be on the poplar tv show "worlds dumbest criminals"

 

[laterob]

Marcin, I think your case is a good one. For the sake of completeness, can you post the entire conversation? Also, when did you send the email from your phone with the picture and how long did you give him to respond before you filed with PayPal?

How much of a refund do you think is fair?

 

[hhmoore]

The facts that we actually have are...... a claim which will be denied since there is evidence that the item was shipped to the Verified Paypal Address. That was just stupid..

Nope.
I don't have time to backtrack through three pages; but, unless the friend is the one that paid, it wasn't sent to the verified address (actually, wasn't it sent to be held at the hub?). Regardless, the shipping address and tracking number should be irrelevant in this matter...because the payment was sent as a gift. That means there was no purchase, and there is no buyer protection .
I don't remember whose a account was used for the payment; but, if it wasn't the OP or the friend that received it , there's an easy enough case for unauthorized transaction. The seller might win, but I wouldn't be surprised if they took action against his account for requesting the gift vs payment.

 

[Fangthane]

For the sake of completeness, can you post the entire conversation?

The following attachments are from posts #28 and #53. When combined, they certainly appear to show everything, from the OP's initial inquiry up to the point where the seller acknowledges receipt of payment. The formatting definitely suggests that, "would you want to sell him for $300 plus shipping?" was the very first message sent.

 

[Mafia89]

Marcin, I think your case is a good one. For the sake of completeness, can you post the entire conversation? Also, when did you send the email from your phone with the picture and how long did you give him to respond before you filed with PayPal?

How much of a refund do you think is fair?

I'm in the phone but the whole convo is already on here. The first half is on a picture I posted before the second half.

9:50 Package arrived
10:07 Got photo and message from my friend
10:33 I see the text with photo
10:40 email sent to buyer.
No responses and I can tell I just got over already.
I give it til about 3pm til I realize he's never going to respond and take my $
I go to file a dispute but I find out I can't. Confirms I'm getting over.

Honestly I paid 305$ and let's say shTipping was 55$. So 250 for a chameleon male. I'm not sure what the market for burnt chameleons is but I gues
I'd be happy with atleast 25$. Hey geo you ruined yourself over 25$ and i cant help but to laugh at you lol. actually I could careless about the 25$. You can have it, you obviously need it more than I do if your going to all these lengths for it.

 

[RichsBallPythons]

Just so its cleared up, Its not Against the TOS of Paypal for businesses to recieve Personal Payments that are without fees. For one PayPal dont have a way to confirm who is registered is a legit business in each state. Its just Sellers can NOT require it that way on every sale.

But its totally acceptable with PayPal to have it sent that way to Business and or Friends and unlimited amount of times so long Sellers arent requiring it.

 

[Fangthane]

Just so its cleared up, Its not Against the TOS of Paypal for businesses to recieve Personal Payments that are without fees. For one PayPal dont have a way to confirm who is registered is a legit business in each state. Its just Sellers can NOT require it that way on every sale.

But its totally acceptable with PayPal to have it sent that way to Business and or Friends and unlimited amount of times so long Sellers arent requiring it.

It doesn't have anything to do with whether or not the recipient is a "legit business." If the Personal Payment is actually for the sale of goods or services, it clearly is against their policy. Sellers can NOT require it that way on ANY sale.

https://cms.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/?&cmd=_render-content&content_ID=ua/UserAgreement_full.

4. Receiving Money.

4.1 Receiving Personal Payments. If you are selling goods or services, you may not ask the buyer to send you a Personal Payment for the purchase. If you do so, PayPal may remove your ability to accept Personal Payments.

There's also this:

8.1 Fees Overview.

Fees are based on whether you are making a Purchase Payment, a Personal Payment or a PayPal Business Payment. Some fees are expressed as a percentage of the payment amount. All Fees are in U.S. Dollars unless otherwise stated.

a. For Purchase Payments, the recipient of the payment will always pay the Fee.
b. For Personal Payments, the following applies:

9. Restricted Activities.

T. Circumvent any PayPal policy or determinations about your Account such as temporary or indefinite suspensions or other Account holds, limitations or restrictions, including, but not limited to, engaging in the following actions...

Section 8 of PayPal's User Agreement clearly makes a distinction between "Purchase Payments" and "Personal Payments". For Purchase Payments, it's not only their policy that a fee definitely be paid, but they stipulate that it will always be paid by the recipient of the funds. As such, even if it's the buyer's choice to do it, one could very easily make the argument that funding the purchase of goods or services with the Personal Payment option is circumventing their fee policy, thus, against their TOS.

 

[Nivea987]

And this is why Ive never used paypal. Ive sat back and read countless threads on multiple forums all involving paypal short comings. Cash is king! Plus if at all possible. I always try to pick up in person. Makes all this BS null and void. I only hope the animal in question is receiving due tlc and ample attention. Have a great day all.

 

[BornInBlood]

Just so its cleared up, Its not Against the TOS of Paypal for businesses to recieve Personal Payments that are without fees. For one PayPal dont have a way to confirm who is registered is a legit business in each state. Its just Sellers can NOT require it that way on every sale.

But its totally acceptable with PayPal to have it sent that way to Business and or Friends and unlimited amount of times so long Sellers arent requiring it.

Was the sale of the chameleon a "personal payment" or a "purchase of goods or services"?

 

[RichsBallPythons]

Either way its up to the BUYER to send it their way. Ive had 1-5k in single payments sent as personal, PayPal told me dont matter what they sent it as, so long i didnt require that method for the service or goods.

If there was proof the seller was demanding/requiring all payments be sent that way then it would be against the TOS.

 

[David Scarboro]

LoL. You want to attack me now? Show of hands, people. Who's never sent money to a trusted seller using PP Gift to avoid the fees?

Never have, never would. IMO it indicates a looseness of morality for a seller to ask. Add it to the price.

 

[hhmoore]

That doesn't change the fact that there is ZERO buyer protection from PayPal when it is sent as a personal payment...and, in this case, the seller specified repeatedly that payment was to be sent that way.

It could be argued that both sides were setting each other up for a screwing; and neither one has posted anything that really dissuades me from that thought.

 

[bloodybaroness]

LoL. You want to attack me now? Show of hands, people. Who's never sent money to a trusted seller using PP Gift to avoid the fees?

Never. You have zero recourse if something goes wrong, trusted seller or not.

It could be argued that both sides were setting each other up for a screwing; and neither one has posted anything that really dissuades me from that thought.

That's the sense I'm getting as well.

At this stage in the game, unless some mind blowing evidence to the contrary is presented, I don't think I would do business with either one of them.

 

[Mafia89]

That doesn't change the fact that there is ZERO buyer protection from PayPal when it is sent as a personal payment...and, in this case, the seller specified repeatedly that payment was to be sent that way.

It could be argued that both sides were setting each other up for a screwing; and neither one has posted anything that really dissuades me from that thought.

Idk what more evidence you need that im not scamming this guy. ill dumb it down for you. I dont have a paypal, i used my gfs to send him the money and he shipped it to my friend because i work 8-5. He sent me a burnt cham and i cant file a dispute.