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Bad Guy Backwater Reptiles

I have two other blood pythons and an Indonesian tree boa (as well as about 20 corns and 5 balls from other places) that I bought from Ben Siegel. All are in absolute perfect health. It was my fault for not doing research on who we were buying from. Right now Luna isn't looking to good. She looks very dehydrated. I want to soak her but I'm not sure if its a good idea because of the blister disease. Any opinions on that?

Why don't you call your vet? You take their recommendation over a VERY well detailed description by David Haisten. You'll probably ignore the information anyway.

Your snake NEEDS a culture. There's no point in just using stuff "just in case" for mites or anything else. It's added stress to the animal and a sure way to continue leading down the road of death.
 
Why don't you call your vet? You take their recommendation over a VERY well detailed description by David Haisten. You'll probably ignore the information anyway.

Your snake NEEDS a culture. There's no point in just using stuff "just in case" for mites or anything else. It's added stress to the animal and a sure way to continue leading down the road of death.

You're going to jump down my throat for following the advise of a licensed vet? You act like I'm supposed to know who David Haisten is or where to get all of those supplys. The reason the vet is treating for mites is because he thinks the bumps were primarily caused by mites, and made worse by bad husbandry.
 
I was about to leave to riteaid for some polysporin and betadine, but when I went to check on her I think she had a seizure or something. She started flailing around, bit her tail, and started coiling. When she let go she just kinda flung her head upside and stopped breathing. So unfortunately she did not make it. Thank you everyone for your advise and support.
 
I am sorry to hear that, but from those pictures you posted, that poor animal was in terrible shape and very dehydrated, possibly beyond help.
 
I was about to leave to riteaid for some polysporin and betadine, but when I went to check on her I think she had a seizure or something. She started flailing around, bit her tail, and started coiling. When she let go she just kinda flung her head upside and stopped breathing. So unfortunately she did not make it. Thank you everyone for your advise and support.

Well that sucks.
 
A bit late, but if you check other BOIs on Backwater you'll see I've mentioned this ordeal before. Bought 1.1 Red tail green rats from them, specifically asking for green phases. All goes nice and neatly and ships nice and fast. Then I opened the package. This was I believe the very first animal I've ever had shipped to myself. Of course I was excited, and didn't realize at first the poor shape they were in.

The female was nice and large, but grey phase. Oh well. Weird, something off about her cloaca. Was fiesty to me compared to balls, but later I figured out she was actually pretty nice for a gonyosoma. Within hours the cloaca started to fester me, so I messed with it, trying to clean off what I thought was stuck on poop. It was rotten flesh. It was twice as big as it seemed, perhaps more. Within minutes of me realizing this she begun to roll around weakly, me driving speedily to the local vet, only to watch her be put down. She was so badly infected it had entered the blood stream. There was no way this could have passed an experienced reptile keeper, as a noob then I couldn't spot it at first.

The male was a nice, but tad small, green phase. He seemed far more calm, and didn't seem to have any noticeable ailments. Until I got back from the vet. Open mouth breathing, mucus oozing out. At first I thought it was because of him drinking too much water or something, took it to vet next day and they determined it was RI. Two days and several injections later he died as well.

I called, emailed, did everything possible to contact them with no response the entire week. I was forced to file it with the bank, and they got my money back. Eventually I calmed down a bit. Then they sent the email. Saying I STOLE that money. After a heart felt rant about it they apologized and said they THOUGHT I was a person who ordered roaches from them. Over $200 of roaches.

I don't think they have actual contact with the animals, I think they just ship them out as soon as they get them. There's no way they could have kept these animals without noticing this. I will never even consider buying from them, even if they're selling dragon snakes for $10 a piece. Even if they're selling bloody pied burmese for $5. I'm not a competitor, I'm just some one who enjoys her reptiles, and I can list plenty of good reputable people to buy from. These people are not them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-CZR6GIQdNY

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Honestly, I don't understand how ANYONE can be okay with this business. I saw some one compared your snake to a microwave? Why do these people not understand :

These are LIVING ANIMALS. There is no excuse. You do NOT ship a sick/harmed animal, ever. You put unneeded stress on the animal, yourself, and other people.

When you put these animals in danger it doesn't matter how many good reviews you have, this isn't a broken microwave you can replace. It's a living creature. These people have to carry the burden of watching them struggle through this. I knew that female racer for under 6 hours, but I cried like a baby driving to the vet as she writhed around, mouth open as her teeth got stuck in the fibers of my jeans and I got bit trying to take them out. It didn't hurt, it didn't need to, she went through stress I couldn't imagine.
 
Soaking is probably a good idea. He will need to stay hydrated for the antibiotic to work well. The only reason some have questioned the vet's treatment is that the choice of Baytril and suggesting Blister disease could be from mites suggests either the vet doesn't really have that much experience with snakes or isn't up to date on their treatment. I had to treat a Boa for mouth rot and a RI not long ago and my vet did a culture and found Staph. We treated with ceftazidime and she recovered completely. Anyway wishing you both well!
 
I honestly was not certain your snake could make it based upon the amount of skin lesions, so in retrospect the least amount of money spent on the animal would have been best.

To properly acclimate that animal, even if it had not been in that condition, would have been pricey if you do not own your own microscope to run fecal exams, etc.
Even then, you have to deal with a veterinarian to get the proper form of many de-wormers. And you are always at the whim of the level of expertise of any given veterinarian. I have found many of the people that will see reptiles not up to speed with the situations that arise in imports. Especially from the tropics.

I do not blame you for not heeding the advice of some random. As far as veterinarians go, there are reptile vets and there are reptile vets. Even the best can make mistakes. Some things are far more complicated than a bearded dragon with MBD.

Who I am is a graduate student, evolutionary biology PhD program. But I have been keeping reptiles since 1977. I would have made an excellent reptile veterinarian, probably one of the best in the country and perhaps the world. But at my age it is not worth the 250k it would cost me to do this, to make poop per year with few years to pay it off before I am in the grave.

Plus, I would quickly get bored with people bringing me ball pythons and bearded dragons that are jacked up because the people are, well....

So, that would mean DVM/PhD would be necessary to keep my sanity, and again, PhD in science they pay me to go to school. Vet school, I pay through the nose.

So, this is what I do, but not who I am.

Basically, I keep almost exclusively arboreal boids: green tree pythons and emerald tree boas. Working with imported green tree pythons made me do a lot of research on my own and work closely with a few very good (and many not very not good) veterinarians.

You did your best, that animal was critical when you got it. It might have made it under my care (no offense), and it might have not. That $55.00 blood python would have become very expensive. But there is no way in hell I would have let that thing into my house anywhere near my animals.

It is better for you that it is not anywhere near any of yours. With these sort of things, one hopes that the situation is bacterial, but there are viruses and all kinds of problems that are not known.

It might be that no-one could have saved the snake. Probably a good chance of that.

So, you did the right thing and took your animal to the vet. And at the 55.00 price point, that is unfortunately a disposable animal (which is a horrible thing to say).

You can learn a lot of different things working with wild critters and imports.

Life is 100% easier dealing with captive bred critters direct from a reputable breeder. Costs more upfront, but night and day with how the animals are.

But not always:
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=220629

As for places selling animals, there is a major store here in SoCal, I have seen their ads on kingsnake for years. Online, they look legit, if not slightly expensive. In their store, the place stinks, there are snake mites, and vapona pest strips in cages with water dishes. Snakes can come in direct contact with the pest strips, and the water can become contaminated. Cages are too small for many larger animals, water bowls are dry and some have a turd in them. Not even worth wasting my breath in there.
Donkeyragers is what these people are. At a raging party kicking their feet like a donkey.
 
Sorry, didn't see the last page. So sorry for your loss. Anyone still think she's "further ahead" because she got $75 and to keep the snake? This and Beth's experience is beyond disgusting!
 
That’s the scary part about buying reptiles from people that you don't know personally. For all you know, you could be contributing to animal cruelty. I have come across people in this hobby that make me sick and people who should be role models for how to further this hobby.
We have to remember that the longer that the bad reptile dealers are around then the more negative influence they have on the hobby. Either by PI$$!%& off new people to the hobby by selling them dying animals or by passing along bad habits and information to others. I would like to see an organization be formed that is similar in nature to the health food department that rates pet stores and dealers/sellers on their cleanliness, prices, variety, customer service and accessibility. I believe that this is something that we need as consumers and for the animals that are being sold well being.
What do you think? Should we start a forum on this and see what everybody thinks about the idea?
 
I would like to see an organization be formed that is similar in nature to the health food department that rates pet stores and dealers/sellers on their cleanliness, prices, variety, customer service and accessibility. I believe that this is something that we need as consumers and for the animals that are being sold well being.
What do you think? Should we start a forum on this and see what everybody thinks about the idea?

Rather than yet another government department that eats tax money, is subject to corruption, and which becomes unwieldy and difficult to deal with, why not just encourage people to post on the BOI and relate their experience with transactions they have had with a particular pet store?

(I also think we should probably take this idea to the forums and not continue the discussion here)
 
Actually there was no damage to my microwave during shipping. I went to buy it from walmart and when I got home I noticed the defect. Was not from shipping or handling but, I understand your point. Also, knowing backwater there is no way they purposely sent out a damaged snake. They have to much to lose sending out a bad $75 blood python. I can not say why it was shipped but please visit a wholesaler or large breeder one day. Strictly et. You will see the volume and realize not everything is as easy as pick it and pack it. There is a lot more that goes into it. AS you said, every dealer has complaints. Everyone. Even though MAGIC seems to think everything in life should be peaches and cream. They made it right is all I am saying and that is more than can be said for a lot of other dealers.

I bet your microwave was packed properly, with styrofoam and everything... Amazing that they're able to do that, regardless of how many microwaves they pack. I'm not a doctor, yet, but I wonder if the fact that your microwave was packed properly was correlated with receiving a product without defects...

predators said:
I appreciate Backwater taking care of the problem" Or "hey things started off rocky but, I received a full refund and I get to keep the animal." It seems as you feel you are still owed something. Anyway, I am not trying to start a war of words but, you win.

They did offer a refund for the purchased price and the round trip shipping, but I haven't heard you comment on the way in which they shipped the package. Shipping an animal in extremely high temps without a cool pack (taking the OPs word for that, but it's objective and possible to review if someone wants to ask for specific info about the date of shipment) and using a plastic box in place of a snake bag so that the animal gets the benefit of the cushion of packing paper or peanuts while shaken or dropped in transit is enough to warrant a BOI. I would like to know these kinds of things before I order from someone. I totally agree with Lucille about this being a thread thats informative and warranted for the BOI.
 
I had a friend purchase a baby blood (probably the same clutch) from Backwater about 5 weeks ago. It had bumps and blisters and died 2 weeks after he received it. They seem like a quantity over quality type of dealer. Im sorry for the condition your animal was in that is horrible and cruel to the animal as well.
Chad
 
I'm so sorry for your loss Jessica. What a horrible situation. Those pictures made me cry. I know it probably doesn't mean much, but you did everything you could to help her. She was just too far gone when you got her. Businesses like Backwater not only sicken me, it boggles my mind how they stay in business. *hugs*
 
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