Bad Guy Repticon EXTREEMELY BAD FOR THE REPTILE INDUSTRY

[Lucille]

Perhaps they will read this thread and be amenable to some changes.

 

[markpulawski]

I would agree that exclusive rights to animal/feeder vending at these shows does not promote competition and without competition who is incented to improve their product or stay at market pricing or offer the deal so many expect when attending these events.
Repticon had an event in Sarasota last spring, it was held at the fair grounds was well attended, clean and a really good show, the last one was held at a small auditorium and looked as if half the vendors collected live stock out of their yards or the surrounding woods, horrible by any standard. I would agree that with herp shows more is definitely less.

 

[jdsnake1]

I recently went to a new show in buffalo new York and I go to and vended a few show a year any way this new show over half the venders where ether selling jewelry of tee shirts or just had animals on display for exhibit and not for sale I personally go to a expo to buy animals not look them and alot of the display animals weren't even reptiles but owls and foxes and thing like that and they are awesome just not at a reptile expo I paid to get in to to buy reptiles

 

[GMTIRRILL]

I just read this whole thread Why exactly is this a bad guy thread it seem that since they have a turn out for shows say to me they are promoting well. where as I don't agree with vendors having exclusive rights the promoter may feel that they need to do shows like this. and since they still make money and they're chosen vendors make money that makes them a non bad guy and if you don't like what a show offers don't go. Simple as that

 

[Clay Davenport]

I quit going to the repticon shows, I don't know, 3 years ago or longer. I keep saying I'll go to the Columbia show since it's a hot show, but when the time comes the drive just doesn't seem worth it.
Once Chris was going to one and I wasn't, so I had him pick me up some rodents I was needing, thinking I could save some money. The price ended up being the same or slightly higher than if I had ordered them off the site and had them shipped. So you drive to the show and still pay shipping. Learned my lesson there.

Point being, while I could still be talked into going to a show with some friends, it's no longer something I mark on my calendar.

 

[JWBrantley]

I feel the need to chime in here as a show attendee. I used to love going to the Raleigh shows several years ago when there were 2 a year. I went to the Raleigh show earlier this year and then the Durham show (very close to Raleigh) a couple of months after that. I did NOT go to the show today. As previously stated, there are far too many shows in this area for them to be quality shows. I don't feel like I missed out on anything by not going today. I used to spend hours at the shows back in the day. Since Repticon took over, I found it a struggle to stay more than an hour. I saw all there was to see in 30 minutes. Having them so frequently hurts the show quality to me. Just my two cents.

 

[davidsimon6]

i agree, i don't like the idea of one rodent over priced vender along with a few other points that degrade the market.

 

[Paul Kent]

We have a fairly ridiculous amount of shows here in Columbus (OH) also. Once a month for one and 4 times a year for another. Total of 16/year for one city lol. And the same ridiculous deal with a certain frozen rodent provider. Ive stopped going unless Im picking up something from someone whos vending there.

Sorry to pile on with sidebar stuff not Repticon related.

I will say that I agree with a lot of other people that the exclusivity deals have always been off-putting. I know its their show and they can do it however theyd like, and Im fine with that concept since (for the moment at least) it is still a free country, but it comes off as slimy on both parties. But I guess we're free to be slimy too

 

[thomas davis]

well

I do not agree with exclusivity I feel its wrong but repticon has the right to run their shows their way.
imho more shows is a good thing the families that bring kids are or will be future herpers ... eventually, at least a few will be, that is industry growth.
its really a numbers game.
Our industry needs more exposure, more shows do just that.
look at gun shows here in texas anyway they are every other weekend!
exposure is a good thing.

,,,,,,,,,thomas davis

 

[davesfiles]

I am really not sure if this is the place to post this so if not Moderators please move it to the appropriate location. Well here goes:
Repticon EXTREEMELY BAD FOR THE REPTILE INDUSTRY

Is it just me or dose anyone else see a problem here
Repticon up coming shows
Raleigh NC today
3 weeks later Winston NC
3 weeks later Charlotte NC
the very next week Atlanta GA
then the next weekend back to Raleigh

On top of this all two day shows what is the promoter thinking. Oh I know screw the vendors and customers as long as I can make money sitting on my couch in Fla its all good.

AND NEVER FORGETTING EXCLUSIVE DEALS MADE BETWEEN CERTAIN VENDORS AND REPTICON.

I would love to be able to choose who to buy my rodents from but I can not since there is one vendor with an exclusive deal.

I would love to be able to choose who to buy my crickets from but I can not since there is one vendor with an exclusive deal.

I would love to be able to choose who to buy all feeder incests from but I can not since there is one vendor with an exclusive deal.

I would even love to chooses how I display my sand boas for sale BUT YET AGAIN I CAN NOT since yet another exclusive deal has been made.

This is the mentality us vendors face. I challenge any one vendor or customer in the entire state of Florida who will dispute the fact that the state is dead for reptile shows. ( perfect example why is it the bigger vendors do not attend any Florida Repticon shows but yet Daytona still at its worst attendance still attracts vendors form all over the country )
So after destroying Florida Repticon has it sights on the entire country starting with the east coast. This is such an easy issues to fix stop doing their shows.
More is not better its worse. Vendors need to stick together and not worry about causing waves. If this is your lively hood then be prepared to do something else at this rate the market will be as dead on the east coast as it is in Florida
IMHO
CBN

I gave up all my reptile pets and went without any of them for many years. A friend was going to a show to get a turtle and I decided to go along. I wasn't going to get anything, I was immune to the desire to get a pet again. And on the way out the door it caught me good eye. So the snake came home. That was Repticon Orlando, October 2009. The fella I bought from let me hold it and answered all my questions. I still have that snake. I've been back to their shows and will again and again. The world appears to have more venues to purchase a pet then it did in 1984, which is when I errounsly tried to make myself i'd given up having reptile pets. As an adult I've learned that whenever I say never, what I really mean is "a very long time", which is arbitrarily subjective.

Shows are a great place to have verbal intercourse with other breeders & keepers.
By mid 2010 I was buying snakes online. I never would have bought a live animal online before.

I set up at them a couple/3 times a year now. It gets my card on the table and a chance to 3-d interact. Ya know, "oldschool", like Nintendo, but "offline". I let anyone who asks to hold a snake unless they're hyped up on something likely ingested & gots the jitters. Shows also let me interview the new owner somewhat to make sure they have the right stuff. Saves a lot of tedious time typing, hoping to articulate in written what I actually mean. All that visual body language stuff. I like a table at the back of the place, with some space around it. Gives me a chance to sometimes come outside the barricade. The 'barricade' is the table between me and the persons attending the show. I like to be on the same side of the table/barricade as the potential customers for the reptile enthusiasts. I try not to stand on the other side of the table with my hands on my hips of arms crossed or some other defensive alphaboy stance. It's a lot different then online sales to persons.

A lot of potential NEW reptile customers in a large overlapping geographical region with 4 Repticon shows in a window of time could actually be a good thing.
My first couple of shows vended at Repticon had low sales,
but the persons who spend 50 bucks on their expenses to take the entire family for an outing to the show
saved 50 bucks in shipping
and if they bought more than one off a table maybe they even got a better deal.
And know if their purchases look the same/better VS potentially photoshopped pictures online.
A lot of the persons who come to the Repticons looked at me and maybe chatted briefly, the second show some of the people came by and chatted awhile longer. Might have even sold something. :shrugs:
By the third show more persons had looked at me and my wares and sales were a little better. Enough to make ends meet. Make the table and expenses. And then they shared that on Facebook with their friends.
Facebook is where I saw a link to this thread from the OP.
Hopefully we can continue to be friends over there after all this diatribal blithering nonsense I'm distributing here. I saw this thread when it had only 740 views, but now seems to have had 1900+. Sorry, but I like real time shows/expos.


Have you ever noticed there's always more venues to sell reptiles at today then there was yesterday?
Why just today there were 7 more reptile sales groups started on facebook, 47 more hobby breeders globally put up their business pages on FB, and there were a messload of auctions across both. I am visually well beyond the saturation point of looking at reptiles I would like to play with in 3-d time. It is easier to like them all, share some, and buy/get none. & what does this derailment have to do with this thread blaming Repticon for poor sales:






On the subject of exclusives, and I do not know, I have not taken time out of my day to interview the Repticon staff, so I'll do my best to stick to the sticky rulz of posting on the BOI here...pleaze don't mod-slap me too hard here...& thanks to Lucille & M. Moore for responses to PMs regarding maybe saying something nice on a RED X thread- so hence kinda leery about stepping in this at all- & yet, here's my blithering mess. I've also taken a lot of time to carefully consider words before making a hasty haughty emotionally charged reply, which hopefully also imparts that I have respectfully considered all this mess of words typed before responding.
From what I have seen, witnessed, observed and processed- it APPEARS to me that --->
Sure, some vendors get reduced rates, special deals, so what of it. They are also the vendors that are at EVERY SINGLE SHOW, to create that base of guarantee that every show will have X number of vendors at it. A base draw to those shows. I am aware that they may get a better rate and take up a lot of tables and space and get some kind of a sliding scale out of pocket expense incentive. Many/most of them also donate to the venue in gift certificates, raffle items, door prizes (because everyone likes door prizes), and some of these vendors give a program at the venue on (pick a subject or angle). Me, I'm not going to set up at every single show. 90 bucks for a table for the weekend. I meet folks and get to play catchup with familial faces.
Peeps I would not otherwise hang with.

Bottom line, I like going to Repticon shows, as either a vendor or as a buyer. From my perspective, I got into reptiles again in my golden years because somebody let me hold a snake at a Repticon show, and now I let other people handle snakes at shows, circle of life and all that jazz.

Maybe you can develop a new distinctively different way to display your sand boa. I see a lot of exclusive deals made between Walmart and manufacturing corporations. But they have the best deal on paper towels in town, so I'm not going to quit shoplifting there. I like the typo of 'incests' in the quoted thingamaroo.
Thanks for sharing the free brain candy-
dp

 

[KORBIN5895]

Could someone please show me where repticon is conducting shady business with its customers?

 

[Reptile Basics]

Something I have wondered for a long time, and that has kept me away from vending at the Repticon shows is why they are all built around the 2 day "Destination" model instead of the 1 day "local" model- they are clearly local shows. As a vendor I can put up with a lot more show density if I am in and out in 1 day. 1 less night in a hotel, one less meal out, one less day away from home and business. Makes a huge difference. There are shows that truly support 2 day that I now travel cross country to vend at. There are 1 day "local" shows I drive 10 hours to NY to do (quite successfully) but there is not 1 repticon show I would drive more than 20 minutes to vend at. $/hr just do not remotely come close to adding up.

 

[CarolinaClassicDragons]

Something I have wondered for a long time, and that has kept me away from vending at the Repticon shows is why they are all built around the 2 day "Destination" model instead of the 1 day "local" model- they are clearly local shows. As a vendor I can put up with a lot more show density if I am in and out in 1 day. 1 less night in a hotel, one less meal out, one less day away from home and business. Makes a huge difference. There are shows that truly support 2 day that I now travel cross country to vend at. There are 1 day "local" shows I drive 10 hours to NY to do (quite successfully) but there is not 1 repticon show I would drive more than 20 minutes to vend at. $/hr just do not remotely come close to adding up.

A great point that should be considered.

 

[Lucille]

Yes, there have been plenty of conversations with management.

You've made a claim, and I posted and asked you for specifics, above. You have not replied. In my opinion it is fine to make a claim, but not to make up a claim.
Please provide details of the conversations you claim took place.
If you want to nail Repticon as a Bad Guy rather than just saying there are too many shows, 'plenty of conversations' isn't enough for readers to draw their own conclusions.

 

[Reptile Basics]

I guess I should quantify this a little better, someone emailed and asked.

To me a Local Show is typically 1 day, roughly 9am-3pm, smaller in size/venue (~50-80 tables), low table cost ($50-$90) and a small advertising budget to keep the table cost in check. Attendance in the 1000-5000 range. These can occur frequently and be sustainable to local vendors. Maybe 6-8 a year and in a smaller venue. These shows in the same venue typically cost me about 1/3 what a 2 day show would. Smaller profits but still profitable enough to warrant if managed well. From what I have seen, most of the Repticon shows should be in the category (in my opinion) and would be sustainable and profitable for all.

A Destination Show is generally in a larger city/metro area, 2 days (9-4pm), 200+ tables, good interstate access, large ad budget both locally and online and a table/booth cost in excess of $200. I do not mind paying $300 for the right show. Attendance at this type of show needs to be above 7500 and ideally closer to 10,000+ and maybe 1-2 per year at a given location, ideally 1. These shows add a substantial amount of extra wear and stress on both the vendor and animals. They need to be a good payoff. These shows can draw both local AND national vendors where the local show typically can not.

Vending at a show is a very delicate balance of costs. Distance= more costs. IF there was a show in Raleigh (1.5hrs from me) 6 times a year that fit into the Local show math I would most likely attend regularly and would certainly give it a try. The same show set up with the Destination Show math is not longer sustainable in the Raleigh area. Another informal criteria I have is the "Sunday Yield". If Sunday does not bring in at least 60-70% of Saturdays take then the show does not need to be 2 days and my extra travel/hotel/meal expense was wasted.

The Raleigh show this weekend that Carolina Classic is referring to once was a Destination show and due to various dramas and pressures from other shows that have popped up over the years has degraded to at best a 1 day show. This could be a very good, profitable 1 day show though. Get in, get it done, get out

 

[CarolinaClassicDragons]

Lucille... I have a very busy life and don't live on Fauna. I haven't had the time to read all of the posts and typically bypass yours anyway.

Last year I was part of a group of vendors that got together to formally voice our opinions to Repticon management prior to Repticon Columbia. I was part of the "committee" but wasn't able to personally make it to the meeting. All of the points that have been brought up here were brought to management's attention. Others can chime in if they want but most probably haven't even seen this thread as most don't have the time.

 

[Lucille]

Lucille... I have a very busy life and don't live on Fauna. I haven't had the time to read all of the posts and typically bypass yours anyway.

You were not at the meeting so do not know what points were brought up. You are unable to either state what was said in particular and more important, you are unable to state what answers were given.

Maybe you are banking on the fact that the snarky little barb you included would stop me from replying.
As far as I am concerned, your claim was a lie, because you can't (or won't) back up your claim of 'plenty of conversations'.
If you'd lie here, I'm thinking you'd lie elsewhere in your business dealings. Not a good reflection on you, now is it?

 

[JCCS]

Lucille, get over it. Dave is a good guy and you're just arguing for the sake of arguing. The only person I've seen question his business was questionable at best and it turned to look like he was trying to take advantage of Dave. And no, I don't know Dave all that well, have just had a few conversations over the years and seen his animals repeatedly at local shows (always flawless and some of the nicest beardies I've seen in person). Even if he had a list of the points brought up, there would be no proof of this conversation so it wouldn't make a difference. I know that plenty of vendors are unhappy with the situation so I'm going to use my noggin here. It tells me that I'm quite sure that these issues have been brought up to Repticon management.

I know that you like to argue and do so very often, but just let it go. I myself like an argument as much if not more than the next person, but you're attacking someone that really didn't have much to do with this situation and purely voiced his opinion. Dave probably shouldn't have mentioned these conversations as it's technically 3rd party stuff, but it's no reason for you to call him a liar because he won't jump through hoops for you or god forbid, just doesn't remember enough specifics to give you what he feels is an accurate answer. Nobody really made a claim here other than exposing some less than spectacular business decisions that negatively impact a large number of people. I said myself that this is not really an appropriate topic for a BOI in my first post. That being said, take a breath, chill out, and think a bit before calling someone a liar and questioning their business ethics.

 

[dieselfan]

This

Lucille, the issue is that a very large part of the people coming through the doors of these shows are parents looking for a cheap trip to the zoo. So, the promoters are generally making enough money to keep expanding. I went to a show in Bristol 6 months ago that had 9 vendors set up, half of which had animals. They should have been ashamed of themselves for not shutting that show down when they saw what it was going to look like.

It will eventually work itself out, but they are going to lose a lot of quality vendors in the process as the people working the shows will eventually lose interest. I'm with the guy several posts up. I used to get excited to go to Raleigh or Columbia, breeders were bringing their best stuff. Going to shows now is just waiting to pick over the scraps from the last show. Also, a lot of irresponsible vendors are working everyone one of these shows. It's not hard to figure out that the animals aren't receiving the best care possible when they're being drug around three days a week.

I was at Repticon Atlanta last weekend and had to wait up to 5 mins to view a table because of these types. It was very frustrating to say the least. On the other hand,these children are likely the next coming generation of reptile keepers. 2 sides of the same sword I suppose. The thing that bothered me most was over hearing someone say they are gonna start doing 4 shows a year for Atlanta Repticon. I'm not sure if there is any truth to that though. However, I must say I had a really good time at this show, there was a ton of variety. Im a little conflicted

 

[JCCS]

I wasn't saying anything derogatory about these visitors. I think their attendance gives us a chance to make what is hopefully a good impression on the general public. Heck, I'm even happy for the promoters for the dollars that they spend getting into the show and for the vendors that sell non-animal products to them. All I was saying by bringing them into it is that even if the shows are bad for the hobbyists and vendors, they can still be profitable for the promoters because of the "non-participatory" individuals that come in and pay the gate fee. If I came off differently, that is my fault for not clarifying that point.