ball python trade. 2 of the snakes i got had rat bites!!!

[Allanira]

I feed live and the only one getting bitten is me or the rat. I stay right there while the rat is alive so that I can intervene if need be. Also that jaw is infected. Get that baby to a vet to get it treated. I would do a BOI and possibly sue him for misrepresentation, and the vet bills. Both those snakes need treatment and he needs to learn you can't sell or trade sick animals. Especially if he guarantees health. Good luck with them.

 

[Focal]

I would also send him a link to this thread. If you could PM me, I am very curious who this is and would like to stay away from him.

 

[j_dunlavy]

I would post a BOI thread. Pay attention to the rules, provide all info and evidence in the first post, and be clear. I would also sex the snakes before posting to make sure you received correctly sexed snakes. Those snakes should not have been sent out. The nose rub could be from the shipping bag but everything else appears to be from stressed snakes in improper enclosures.

People should know who is sending out what and in what condition.

There are a lot of irresponsible breeders and flippers out there and the irresponsible ones hurt the reptile community as a whole. Time to speak up and clean up the hobby.

 

[FireStorm]

That BEL needs a vet. That looks more like abscesses than a bite. No way either of those should have been shipped like that.

 

[andrew_snake_sale]

Thank you all for your advise and opinions. We really apreciate them
We have been messaging him back and forth (receiving) the respences back days later. We were really hoping to not have to go to the boi but he is leaving us no choice. I agree that they both need vet care. I have said it to the seller as well and I am going to make an appt today.

Monday he said thi again "I will send the replacements, but will not compensate both ways" "Ita a minor bite that will heal" after we sent this. "Ok
so you send us injured snakes and you won't pay for the shipping back and are not going to send the replacements first?
We have talked to several people/breeders about this issue And we aren't asking alot. We just not feel like we should pay for a mistake you made!!
Those 2 snakes should never have been shipped out in the condition they were/are in.
This was Andrew first shipping/ trade experience and it was bad. He/we shipped exactly how you told us to and you knew it would be arriving by 1030Am yet your sister recieved the snakes/box at 957 am and left it unopened in het house until at least 1pm when you got it from her?? im sorry but it really makes us Question your husbandry practices and issues.
I think it is really sad and I would hope that you were not just trying to take advantage of a news herper who is a minor. Did you think we wouldn't notice the rat bites and injuries?
Come on be fair with him you got 2 beautiful and healthy breeder females and You think we should be stuck with 2 injured possibly perminately scarred snakes, and be forced to pay for either shipping or vet expenses???
That'NOT a solution!!!!!!
Please get back to me ASAP

We responded with this
Do you think both snakes have minor bites/ injuries? Because people on fauna were really concerned about infection in the bel and permanent scarring in the male albino..
And in their opinion thy said that "the seller should have never sent out those snakes"
Do you dangle the live rats or drop them in the bins and move on to the next one?
Do you send out rat bitten snakes alot?
Just wondering because we are new at this ��

Thursday
We sent him this
You never answered our questions?
but either way
I need to know what you want to do or we will be taking the 2 snakes to the vet.

Can u send them today and put a pre paid label in so we can send back yours? I really do t feel like we should have to pay to send them back!

He responded with this
I will take pics of replacements today

A few mess more then I see him post something unrelted on Facebook. World of ball pythons. And I commented on it telling him to get back to us.

He fb messages us this just now

Its 20 degrees in Chicago, sending photos soon

We are really sceptical and don't trust this guy


What should we do????????

 

[hhmoore]

What should we do????????

For starters, you should register your own account (using your own name). Due to the full name rules for the BOI and classifieds, our basic policy is one person per account - having the name there is meaningless if some unidentified person is posting.

 

[Lucille]

I do think that the seller should make a good faith effort to work something out with you after sending out snakes like that.

I think it is really sad and I would hope that you were not just trying to take advantage of a news herper who is a minor.

I notice you have quite a few animals for sale here in the classifieds. Be careful of playing the minor card, if people see that you play this card when there are issues they may have second thoughts about transactions with you.

 

[Focal]

I would hold out a few days. The weekend is here and if the temps are cold, it will be safer to hold on. I would expect pictures before Monday though.

Have you considered asking to trade back and pay your own shipping each way? Sometimes valuable lessons learned come with a fee. I would consider paying shipping twice as a cheap lesson learned.

 

[andrew_snake_sale]

Thank you. We are waiting for pix

Either way we could resolve this his husbandary ethics must be questioned not only because if the conditions of the snakes he sent me but also because he knew by 1030 the snakes would be arriving and he had to be there to receive our 2 female ball pythons. Instead his sister took the package and put the u opened box in the house and he doesn't get to te package until at least 1pm

 

[hhmoore]

Why is having somebody else accepting delivery and bringing the box in the house a problem?

 

[andrew_snake_sale]

package

as the weather is colder this time of year i would think that the best thing to do when you know a package with snakes in it is going to arrive, that you would be there to accept it, open it and get the snakes into bins with heat on them as soon as you can and not have them sitting in the closed box in a room for several hours.. IMO

and it is apparent that the seller feeds live rats without supervision i would question the husbandary practices that he uses

 

[j_dunlavy]

as the weather is colder this time of year i would think that the best thing to do when you know a package with snakes in it is going to arrive, that you would be there to accept it, open it and get the snakes into bins with heat on them as soon as you can and not have them sitting in the closed box in a room for several hours.. IMO

it is better to wait for warmer weather to ship rather than risk shipping in temps below 40F, imo. if it is 20 degrees in Chicago I would not even consider shipping; it is probably cold in Rhode Island too. It is even too cold to ship reptiles here in the SF bay area right now.

this situation is unfortunate but can be used as a lesson if you are unable to get it corrected by the seller.

 

[hhmoore]

as the weather is colder this time of year i would think that the best thing to do when you know a package with snakes in it is going to arrive, that you would be there to accept it, open it and get the snakes into bins with heat on them as soon as you can and not have them sitting in the closed box in a room for several hours.. IMO

If you had offered other explanations, I would have let it go...but you didn't.
Were YOU there to receive your snakes, or did you have somebody else there to do it for you? Why is it acceptable for you to have your mother accept snakes for you, but not for this seller to have his sister receive the one's you sent?
As long as the snakes were received, and inside, there's no problem with leaving the box unopened for a few hours...and some would say it is better for them to warm up slowly, anyway.

it is better to wait for warmer weather to ship rather than risk shipping in temps below 40F, imo. if it is 20 degrees in Chicago I would not even consider shipping; it is probably cold in Rhode Island too. It is even too cold to ship reptiles here in the SF bay area right now.

this situation is unfortunate but can be used as a lesson if you are unable to get it corrected by the seller.

The temps weren't an issue in this; but I don't disagree with the basic point.
What lesson is to be learned, though, if the seller won't "correct" it?

 

[j_dunlavy]

The biggest lesson (in my point of view) is that there are still shady people in the reptile trade that will misrepresent their animals; in this case the seller sent animals that were injured and excused it by saying they will be fine and heal on their own.

Most minor rodent bites do heal but that abscess on the jaw does not look like something that will heal on it's own.

 

[andrew_snake_sale]

Thank you again everyone

He knew my mom would be receiving the package because I would be at school. My mom opened the box (videoed it) and put the snakes in a separate 5 bin rack that I had set up the day before for a quarantine period.

I sent him this

This has been going on for some time with no resolution and the snakes in our opinion shoud be seen by a vet so I'm proposing that we just send each others snakes back to each other you can send our 2 snakes back and we will send your 5 back. When could you ship? We are pretty flexible
Can you ship monday and we will ship tuesday??

Now he says this
(4 texts one after another)
"That will no longer work since I started breeding them. I will send you photos of replacements"

"Those snakes do not need a vet"

"Its 20 degrees in Chicago, to cold to ship"

"If your so concerned, when you cut yourself do you visit the hospital?"

I send him a response but it's long. It has been 2 weeks today and he has already started breeding them!!!!!????? usually people quarantine new snakes IMO he is just making excuses now and still saying the bites are not a big deal???!!

I am confused about the statement that if he doesn't solve this it is a good lesson to learn????
What is the lesson? To never do a trade?
We trusted him and he said he guarentees the health of his animals

The only thing that we have learned is that he obviously just throws live rats in his snake bins , does not think that its a big deal and does not supervise to prevent rat bites, and that he doesn't quarenteen new snakes!!!
Sorry I'm very frustrated
I am trying to work with this guy but it doesn't seam to be working.

 

[Dbz4246]

Go and post to the BOI, people need to know about this seller, especially when you are concerned with the snakes health and all he does is mock you

 

[j_dunlavy]

I am confused about the statement that if he doesn't solve this it is a good lesson to learn????
What is the lesson? To never do a trade?
We trusted him and he said he guarentees the health of his animals

The lesson that there are shady sellers will be there whether he resolves the issue or not, it just may cost a vet bill. It makes him look less legit by telling you that that abscess is going to heal on it's own; him not quarantining the snakes he received from you makes him look even less professional. Anybody can SAY they guarantee the full heath of the snakes but whether they honor that guarantee will make the difference between a good and shady seller. the fact he sent snakes in this condition would make him a shady seller in my book.

I am not against trades, just very cautious of them. I don't think people should avoid doing trades, just keep your guard up.
Trades seem to be where a lot of things can go wrong, but if you trade with someone who has a longstanding good reputation you will likely be very happy; this seller on the other hand, not so much.
This is just my opinion of course.

why not take the 2 injured snakes (especially the one with the abscess) to the vet and see if the vet says they are fine? If the vet confirms that they are not fine, as i suspect will be the case for that abscess, call him out on his heath guarantee and ask him to pay the bill and/or replace the snake(s). You may have to pay some shipping costs though.

either way he never should have sent those snakes in the first place and I think he should be called out on it, even if it just as an "Info" post on the BOI instead of a "Bad Guy" post.

 

[j_dunlavy]

Also, be sure you keep his snakes in full quarantine for 90 days to protect your collection. If he does not quarantine he could have anything going on in his collection.

I am glad to hear that you had a quarantine set up for new arrivals, that is very responsible of you.

 

[Focal]

I am confused about the statement that if he doesn't solve this it is a good lesson to learn????
What is the lesson? To never do a trade?
We trusted him and he said he guarentees the health of his animals

The only thing that we have learned is that he obviously just throws live rats in his snake bins , does not think that its a big deal and does not supervise to prevent rat bites, and that he doesn't quarenteen new snakes!!!
Sorry I'm very frustrated
I am trying to work with this guy but it doesn't seam to be working.

There should have been several lessons learned already, regardless if the issue is corrected or not. If you are open to constructive criticism, I can point them out, but I also don't want to pour salt in an open wound. There were a few things that could have prevented this situation from getting to this point and leaving fate in his hands.

You are in a situation that most people probably couldn't fix and that's why so many people have recommended going to the BOI. It puts a certain layer of pressure on the faulted party and will often open their eyes to their mistake. It could also result in him using that as an excuse to do nothing to fix the issue. If it were me, I'd play by his rules for a short time and give him a chance to fix it. If he does, I would still probably post an info thread since he's beyond the point of redemption. If he doesn't fix it, then I would without a doubt post a bad guy thread for resolution and to prevent this from happening to others.

 

[andrew_snake_sale]

ty focal
1. we never should have trusted him.....
2. we should have sent his snakes back imediately instead of sending him mine.... but we had talked to him and he made me feel like i was overreacting (by saying it is ok, normal and the snakes will heal) this was my first shipping and trade experience and i wanted to make sure i sent my snakes to him when i was supposed to. i didnt want a bad reputation (being a thursday that was the only day i could ship until monday)

and it has just gone down hill from there....

we have been patiently waiting (playing by his rules) and trying to work with him, we feel the same way that if we post now he wont really have a reason to fix it
we feel that he should have already dealt with this but he is procrastinating and now mocking us.. he will not answer our questions more importaltly he is still saying its no big deal and didnt even answer when we asked him what he suggests we do as to the welfare of the snake.. we asked him if he wanted us to take the snake to the vet? no answer....
we are going to have to take him to the vet as the jaw is still swollen and he will not eat (it have been 2 weeks)..
the seller obviously doesnt quarantine any animals he gets as he has told us that it is not possible for us to get our snakes back and give him all of his back because he has already started breeding them. and he says its to cold to ship... i feel like we just keep getting the run around from him...
here is a pic we just took of the bel... the wound does not look infected but the swelling is not going down much on his right side of his jaw.. we may be out the $ for a vet bill too....

we want him to give us our 2 snakes and we want to give him his 5 snakes back and for this to be over....
he cant ship us replacement because of the weather. he wont give us our snakes back because he didnt quarenteen them and started breeding them!!!
no matter what we still have his snakes and they should go to the vet but wouldnt answer us when we asked him is he wanted us to bring it to the vet...

do airlines fly snakes?
if they do we will give him that option too...

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