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Bad Guy Hurricane Exotics: Adam G.

As far the the wrist issue goes, it was nor would Affect her from digging/ laying her eggs. If it looked as an ideal threat to breeding, and not so much cosmetic, I would have NOT purchased her myself. And as Far as the MBD goes, No Signs/ Symptoms while in my care. And if so, you better believe I would have NOT sold her as trying to regrow and have a Fresh Start. This is kind of a NO-Brainer for anyone with common etiquette. As we all know that the animals we sell reflects on our reputation as a Breeder. Buyer was aware of the crooked wrist, which was minor enough to where it was obviously NOT an issue. The MBD was NOT of my cause nor seen in effect while I had the dragon.
 
To Ease curiosity, here are several Pictures of the EXACT Dragon in which was presented to the buyer/Ad's in the reptile community prior to being sold and subjected to this thread:




 
Okay here are the facts.
We did not spring this on you after two weeks. We had several concerns leading up to the discovery that she had MBD. Everyone can see this in the texts I posted. You weren't left in the dark. Secondly I keep my dragons in glass cages so they can all see each other. My only regret is that I do like to take my dragons out into the sun during the summer months and I did bring her out with the others and held her in my lap. Which is how I really noticed she was unreactive to the males because my big male duke would always bob and my other females would bow. I now know I shouldn't have even had her around my other dragons. But in my defense I was not instantly trying to breed her. I understand that there may be other reasons she would be unreactive, but I also know an unhealthy dragon will know that it shouldn't breed. As for the swollen wrist, it is funny because I kept a picture of the ad saved to my desktop, and it seems it was meant for this reason.

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As you notice, it seems the wrist was cropped out of the picture except for in the bottom picture, but it is hard to see. I will post the vet records later today.
 
It seems you think we were only concerned about breeding her when you can see in the texts we were more concerned about her health. Yes we bought her for breeding purposes in the future, but we would never breed an unhealthy dragon. As for coming to you 2 weeks later. We texted you before two weeks voicing concerns in which you told us not to go to the vet. Which is a bit of a red flag. If we had concerns over health you should have encouraged us to see a vet. The guarantee promised all animals would arrive 100% alive and healthy which just didn't happen. She was not healthy. The severity of this mbd could not have happened with me in 2 weeks. And I don't think we could have diagnosed her with mbd within 24 hours.
 
This can go back and forth all DAY Long as a public argument. What is it that you are seeking or would make you happy at this delayed point in time to relieve and resolve your frustration in this misconception & within reason? As I still cannot admit to guilt in this matter, only help as best as I can.
 
What I would like is $400. I would eat the $25 plus the shipping costs and the over $200 for vet bills. I think that is reasonable.
 
I guess you mis understood " within reason " Mike!

You have provided no proof of the Vet visit, which has been asked for a few times.
 
Adam, it seems pretty clear that you selectively cropped the pictures you used in the ad. Given that the OP told you about the wrist issue within 24 hours, and you promised 100% healthy arrival, I think you're on the hook.
 
What does that mean? It only takes one vet visit to determine what the sickness was. However I did made another visit to the vet to grab more meds for her. So what your opinion, is within reason? You have to also understand that she was an investment. In a couple months I would have bred her had she been healthy and so I'm losing money from not producing eggs. I would not have paid $425 for a pet. And you should never a breed a beardie that's had MBD even if they do recover.
 
I don't know anyone who would reimburse any vet visits, that's all on the buyer. I'm assuming the dragon is doing fine, so I'd say you should atleast be re-funded $275, which is more then half. Unless if the seller wants to be really generous and give you a better re-fund, which is always well respected ( and encouraged ).

This is JMO

Thanks for posting the Vet scans
 
in the cropped advertisement it is obvious because we know what we are looking for if you were just looking at it from a sales point its hard to notice.
I think they buyer has pleading his case successfully.

the animal was $425 shipped that should be the refund and have the animal shipped back IMO shipping should also be on the seller but the buyer has made an offer hes ok with
 
This thread is starting fill up with Mikes!


This is how I look at it as I'm a business owner myself, but not a business selling animals.

I'm no way in any shape saying that this is true! This is just my own opinion! The buyers show proof of a Vet visit, but there is no proof that the visit was actually for the dragon in question. But it was definitely for a dragon.

The vet visit was 2wks after purchase, which is stated on the form in the pic, as it also states the dragon stopped eating and being not as active in the 2 days prior to the visit. So one assumes the dragon seemed fine up to then, besides the wrist issue that we will never truly know the facts about, since it goes back and fourth if the buyer knew about it prior or not.

RI can develop pretty quick, it can be caused by stress. No way to prove it happened before shipping, it's just an assumption. MBD is a different story, that takes time to develop, so it's a fact that the dragon had it prior to shipping. But how advanced is the MBD, that can be a good question and would truly determine if the seller knew about it prior to shipping.

The last thing is that the buyer decided to keep the dragon and not return it, even if the wrist issue was a major concern when arrived. You have to look at all the facts and assumptions to determine what would be fair.

I don't believe a full refund should be giving, but I also don't believe the buyer should be out of any refund. That's why I stated what I thought was fair in my prior post.
 
Reasonably, I wish I was provided with the Vet Assessment as well as the Bill of Invoice A LONG TIME AGO, or at least within a better time frame since it was requested by many involved in this thread and I'm sure, wanted to see by voyeurs. Also with that documentation AS SOON AS POSSIBLE, Ca’Mon, THAT’S YOUR PROOF. I would have further investigated it myself. I personally would have emailed the Vet a Picture of the exact Dragon to verify if it was indeed and Exactly Mine, for my own personal records and communicate with them to make sure that everything was legit by personally contacting them. Vet write ups are just as easily “generalized” and that’s why I for 100% proof. I want VETS to send me a PIC if a customer has a problem. ONLY IF IM PROVIDED WITH VET DOC’s to begin with. Once again NOT 4 MONTHS LATER!
I have purchased wholesale lots in the past, as well as individual dragons myself that came from Kingsnake, Fauna, Bearded Dragon.org. And when something seems faulty, due to arrival AND I MENTIONED, EVEN IF IT WAS SEVERAL DAYS AFTER ARRIVAL, and Ive had to take animals I've purchased the same week due to health issues. I even email the Vet the Picture of the Animal to correctly have them clarify and verify that the animal is the EXACT ONE, or ask a receptionist to do it for me out of Courtesy to solidify a case to show that It Corresponds to the SAME ANIMAL in the Ads in case of situations similar to this, without waiting such a duration of time. ESPECIALLY INORDER TO BUILD A PROPER CASE if needed to pursue a PAYPAL CLAIM with the correct documents in order for them to approve the claim through their department investigators.I STILL WOULD HAVE BEEN MORE THAN WILLING TO WORK WITH YOU THEN. And have records of EXACTLY the first complaints were due to unsatisfaction. We did not communicate at all up until 2 weeks after recieval. I didn’t “STRONGLY” encourage you to take her to the VET, I simply said NO VET. As basically to my opinion. If I bought a Car and it only had a 3 day return policy and I felt something was wrong with it, Im not gonna friggin’ wait TWO weeks to have a professional opinion. I would go right away, I cannot make some GO or NOT go to the Vet, that’s their decision and prerogative. The reason why Im so stand off-ish is because Ive had someone with a sick beardie once, and tried to blame it on me, when it was NOT my Beardie. Showing NO Valid Proof. In the end TRYING TO SCAM and Get a FREE BEARDIE.
laterob said:
Adam, it seems pretty clear that you selectively cropped the pictures you used in the ad. Given that the OP told you about the wrist issue within 24 hours, and you promised 100% healthy arrival, I think you're on the hook.
Click to expand...

Selectively Cropped my ass. I had all the same pictures of her on Kingsnake.com as I POSTED LARGE Throughout the thread. Those 3 were for the site in which it was not found. I had up to six pics of her on Kingsnake. SHOWING THE BUMP, and discussing it with the buyer as well. There is NO Diagnosis with THE RESPIRATORY INFECTION at ALL, which if the severity of everything amounts to somewhat legitimacy ARE SEVERE SIGNS (Popping of the Mouth), musucy nostrils, Excessive and compulsive Hard Puffing Up of the Chestal area which was not stated as well on the report. I personally don’t think that within the time frame given, was fair to submit a letterhead with the diagnosis from the Vet.
I certainly cannot give a full refund since you never had a problem KEEPING HER to begin with.
 
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The Two Last Screen shots, You specifically described HER AS RED. In which was my next question. SPECIFICS are appropriate for justification in these situations as well. I was going to question about the Vets write up as describing her as "YELLOW" bright brought a RED Flag to me as well. That Dragon had probably the LEAST yellow on it.
Second- You said the Dragon was "Calcium Defficient" which is a natural occurance in allowing us to care for Pogona's in Captivity.
Which without Dusting with D3Cal and Proper Lighting can ABSOLUTLY GIVE A Bearded Dragon MBD within two weeks. And if this were as severe as a CASE OF MBD as you described, which I abviously would have noticed if I was REY CHARLES.... than she would NOT HAVE BEEN UP FOR SALE.
Which is WHY I HAVE VETS SEND ME A PICTURE IF THERES AN EXACT HEALTH PROBLEM. But as mentioned over and over you would send me a VetBill/Exam. NEVER HAPPENED ALL UNTIL NOW?!
 
Adam. We tried to contact you. I saw no need to forward you any vet records as you completely blew me off after I told you what was going on. I have posted the text message reaching out to you and you ignored it. If you did reply please post if for all the good people reading this to see. I also sent you an email stating the same claim. And you ignored that also. I am not trying to scam you. The way I see it, you scammed me. I'm done with this. I don't want your money. I'm satisfied to know that I saved at least a few people from doing business with you and I will NEVER do business with you again.
 
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