Bad Guy Bad Chondro from Ray Morrow (aka Brotherray)

[Oxyrhynchus]

4 Do you feed live? Cause they look like they could be bite marks. Give it a soak in a iodine solution the color of tea it should be fine ( let it soak 10 mins before adding iodine so it has a chance to drink first)

I don't feed live. I haven't even fed it yet. I was giving it a week to settle in. I was told it was fed on life hoppers however.

 

[DavidBeard]

I do find it somewhat unsettling that Mr. McIntyre continually avoids the question or topic of vet care. I'll be another to ask the question: is this snake going to receive the necessary vet care it needs?

 

[j_dunlavy]

I do find it somewhat unsettling that Mr. McIntyre continually avoids the question or topic of vet care. I'll be another to ask the question: is this snake going to receive the necessary vet care it needs?

100%

When it comes to vet care you have to be willing to put out, regardless of the monetary value of the snake. All of Mr. McIntyre's posting about the seller is wasting what little precious time he may have to try and help this poor snake.

dhaisten has been right on all of the issues surrounding chondro parasites. Furthermore, even after treatment, "farmed" chondros are still best kept in a permanent quarantine, away from the cbb colony, IMO.
I have been looking into getting a group chondros for about 10 years now and am still hesitant. Maybe next year...

My questions for the OP are:
Had you done any research prior to buying the chondro?
Have you bothered to read the Maxwell book? (it would have told you this could happen)
Do you even have a reptile vet you use when these sorts of things happen? (and things always happen, regardless of a person's expertise)
And, Why were you in such a rush to get one? There is a plethora of cbb chondros from numerous reputable breeders out there... Just sayin'... when you rush into something, animals can die.

 

[Snake-Queen]

I do find it somewhat unsettling that Mr. McIntyre continually avoids the question or topic of vet care. I'll be another to ask the question: is this snake going to receive the necessary vet care it needs?

I seriously doubt it will be seeing a vet, as the OP is decidedly avoiding that particular question. The next time we hear from him, it will be to report the snake has died.

I know little about chondros, but I do know about shows, I always treat for mites when returning home as a preventative measure

 

[JohnRougeux]

.

You see a post with this name attached, you know you are getting the best advice there is.

 

[SIGNATURE DESIGN EXOTICS]

I don't feed live. I haven't even fed it yet. I was giving it a week to settle in. I was told it was fed on life hoppers however.

Feed live or not what we all want to know is how do you plan on taking care of the snake? You have already admitted that you lack in experience so a trip to a vet is probably best. If you do not have one I'm sure there are plenty of members here from P.A. that can point you in the right direction in case you don't know how to goggle.

 

[chonjoepython]

Garbage in, garbage out. In the future buy USACBB chondros.

 

[SofaKing]

Hey Paul

If you look up the driving distance from Dickson City to Hamburg, it clearly says 5 hrs and 25 min drive one way. You said your drive was only an hr and change, so your clearly stating that your using a false Location when you registered here?

If you willingly buy a wild caught animal, I assume you know what your getting yourself into. That's pretty much cut and dry.

If your worried about being bit, then I would stick with a species that's unlikely to bite or be aggressive. But that takes all the fun out of it!

I would just take the snake to the vet like everyone has stated. It's part of being a responsible keeper.

I don't agree nor disagree with whats been said about the issues. But I do say that RI can be caused by stress, when an animal is stressed it can release bacteria in the blood. So RI can be present in a short time.
I have seen bent scales, and eventually if the bent scale gets hung up on something, it can be torn off, just like a hang nail. Doesn't mean there's a infection present etc... I've seen this more in wild caught then captive bred. But it does happen.

I'm not a vet nor do I play one on tv. I admit that... But some people here feel the need to be a self appointed vet (Not sure if Sally Struthers is doing info commercials on a Vet certificate in 6weeks) , jump the gun on diagnosis and forget the simple cause of issues.

Instead of posting a bad guy thread to find Ray or Mike, you should have just posted a info thread on them. I really don't believe you tried to contact Ray until you posted this thread, I think your just start having buyers remorse, IMO

 

[hhmoore]

Hey Paul

If you look up the driving distance from Dickson City to Hamburg, it clearly says 5 hrs and 25 min drive one way. You said your drive was only an hr and change, so your clearly stating that your using a false Location when you registered here?

Really? My Google-fu must be off...

 

[Pacman213]

I don't agree nor disagree with whats been said about the issues. But I do say that RI can be caused by stress, when an animal is stressed it can release bacteria in the blood. So RI can be present in a short time.

I do believe stress can cause an animal to get sick, but I can assure you it is not from releasing bacteria into the blood. Bacteria in the blood or bacteremia is very very bad and does not normally happen with out some form of trauma.

 

[SofaKing]

Harald you stand to correct me Sir, seems like the Maps app on the Iphone kept changing when I hit the Route button, I should just stick with Google Maps....

I do believe stress can cause an animal to get sick, but I can assure you it is not from releasing bacteria into the blood. Bacteria in the blood or bacteremia is very very bad and does not normally happen with out some form of trauma.

Your right, to a point. It doesn't happen to every animal that gets stressed. It takes a certain period of stress to get to that point. Trauma is definitely another issue that can cause it.

I'm not indicating that's what happened here, just another added thought to what could cause RI.

 

[hhmoore]

The buyer's method of transport could certainly have been a contributory factor. If you're going to a winter show looking for a GTP - show a little sense and bring an insulated box.

 

[dhaisten]

Seems like we have all been hammering the buyer a little hard here.

The underlying issue was/is a lack of knowledge on his part. At this point he might not respond to this thread considering that it has become somewhat akin to a witch hunt.

I do not see much from the sellers either. But either party might respond with time.

No self-appointed vet here. As an undergraduate there was a deciding line between those who were pre-med and those of us that were going on to advanced science degrees. Simply put, for the most part the scientists or those who would go on to get a MD or DVM in conjunction with a PhD (and teach at a medical institution-i.e. train the doctors) were usually the most curious of the bunch (dare I say smartest?).

I am not one of those, because I went the other route (straight science).

If this animal was/is going septic (bacteria in the bloodstream), that would be a serious issue.

In the 70s there were no available reptile veterinarians per say, that I could get to.

That made it necessary to know your animals. As time went on things became better with medical care and snakes.

That being said, there are only a handful of veterinarians that I would be able to safely keep my mouth shut and just let them treat my chondros.

Researching the primary literature for papers on antibiotic resistance, the etiology of pathogens in pythons, phylogenetic affinities of certain parasites and modes of treatment, etc. as well as knowing my animals and what is likely wrong has saved more than one of my green tree pythons when dealing with a veterinarian that is not up to speed, does not have experience, or just is not a problem solver or critical thinker.

Some are so darn good it is money well spent.

The person selling the animal purportedly said the animal was treated for parasites. The vendor of the table restricted this to ectoparasites.

All parties involved do not know what they are doing with the care of non-avian reptiles. End of story.

Bacteria in the bloodstream=septicemia. I saw that on Sally.

 

[Lucille]

The underlying issue was/is a lack of knowledge on his part.

First of all, thank you for your awesome explanations.

I do think that if the OP had come to one of the snake forums instead of the BOI and asked for information, he may have been told that he should have researched prior to buying but other than that I think people would have been kind and helpful.

I think that if he had approached the seller in a non adversarial manner (because as has been pointed out the snake may have been fine when it left the show) he might have gotten some good suggestions.
I think in this forum you reap what you sow, and if someone comes out criticizing their seller as a bad guy they are less likely to receive a lot of time or advice.

Hopefully:
1) The snake goes to the vet
2)Gets treated and is everything the OP wished for
3)The OP studies up on chondros

 

[Brotherray]

just to make it clear again mike said it was treated for mites aka external parasites not internal there seems to be a little confusion about that. and still i was never contacted before this kind person began to slander me and not only was this thread started before i was contacted. but this same post was placed on my good guy thread so thanks alot for that buddy

 

[Mike Schultz]

QUOTE=dhaisten;16921]

I do not see much from the sellers either. But either party might respond with time.
[/quote]

Whats left to say? I sold an animal that was accurately labelled, priced and described and the customer didnt do his own research.

All parties involved do not know what they are doing with the care of non-avian reptiles. End of story.

I take great care of my animals. I am not sure how this thread has anything to do with my care but I appreciate your opinion because I'm a pretty OK guy