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Bad Guy Dillon and Rick Wascher, www.safedartfrogs.com

I just scrolled through a number of the recent posts; and I didn't see much that addressed the subject of this thread. Please remember that we have discussion areas for general (including species specific) conversation. A greater effort at keeping things (more strictly) on topic would be much appreciated.
 
Mike2014 said:
Now to be in a hobby for 2 years...and nobody will sell them any animals knowing who they are. It would be pretty hard to breed to the point of 6,000 frogs. Also hard to believe this because they couldn't fill an order for 10 frogs that I called and asked for.
Click to expand...

I wanted to see if I can clear up a point of confusion about this statement.

The Wascher's have made some pretty wild statements about he number of frogs they have in their inventory. Numbers that can't realistically be substantiated if you understand PDF breeding behaviors, space and food requirements for responsible care, and responsible care of the breeding pairs, ie not over breeding them.

A number of people called and made inquiries with no actual attempt to purchase, simply to ascertain wether or not the Wascher's actually had and were breeding the number of frogs they claimed. The Wascher's could not supply the quantities requested because they're not actually breeding the number of frogs they claim nor do they have the inventory they claim.

I believe this is what Mike was intending to convey that he was doing. I know that he has abandoned this thread, but It would be nice if he could clarify and set the record strait here.
 
ZooKeeperDoug said:
Especially when you're dealing with children.
Click to expand...

That is an important point.

ZooKeeperDoug said:
I absolutely agree. I even chastised the OP for bringing it here and now especially for abandoning it. Essentially leaving it for the rest of us to try and clean up his mess. It really is more of a hobby business debate that doesn't fit within the intended purpose of the BOI.
Click to expand...

The discussion can always be moved to the forums. Doug, maybe you can initiate a thread there. Wading through 150 pages on another forum is a daunting task, but a clear concise summary of how a frog business might be run to maximize safety to the families and especially the kids who might have frogs would be a worthwhile contribution, if you have the time to do that.
 
Lucille said:
That is an important point.



The discussion can always be moved to the forums. Doug, maybe you can initiate a thread there. Wading through 150 pages on another forum is a daunting task, but a clear concise summary of how a frog business might be run to maximize safety to the families and especially the kids who might have frogs would be a worthwhile contribution, if you have the time to do that.
Click to expand...

Thanks Lucille. I believe we got off on the wrong foot with an overly combative series of posts. I'm trying to doing my best within my limited ability to, due to the rules and expectations of this forum, address yours and the concerns of others about our statements. My biggest issue is that much of what has been discussed and transpired is only archived somewhere that a moderator here has expressly said is unacceptable.

This thread really got started off wrong, and if want to reinforce again, my personal feeling that it has no place in the BOI and isn't a valid topic for the BOI. Mike picked a fight he seemingly had no intention of finishing.

I will consider your other idea.
 
ZooKeeperDoug said:
I wanted to see if I can clear up a point of confusion about this statement.

The Wascher's have made some pretty wild statements about he number of frogs they have in their inventory. Numbers that can't realistically be substantiated if you understand PDF breeding behaviors, space and food requirements for responsible care, and responsible care of the breeding pairs, ie not over breeding them.

A number of people called and made inquiries with no actual attempt to purchase, simply to ascertain wether or not the Wascher's actually had and were breeding the number of frogs they claimed. The Wascher's could not supply the quantities requested because they're not actually breeding the number of frogs they claim nor do they have the inventory they claim.

I believe this is what Mike was intending to convey that he was doing. I know that he has abandoned this thread, but It would be nice if he could clarify and set the record strait here.
Click to expand...

The op stated that "they couldn't fill an order for 10 frogs that I called and ASKED FOR". I don't see any confusion there.
 
Chris Kennard said:
The op stated that "they couldn't fill an order for 10 frogs that I called and ASKED FOR". I don't see any confusion there.
Click to expand...

I don't know how to any better explain it.

Calling and asking for something is different than actually placing an order. I'm confident it was a fact finding mission to see if they would actually be able to provide the number of frogs they claim they could. In this case, it seems, that though they boast about crazy inventory, they could not even fulfill a relatively small simple order.

Let's say for example, someone says they have thousands of Gila monsters for sale! all captive bred in the past two years. Knowing what I know about Gilas, this sounds preposterous, so based on that suspicion, I call, pretending to be an interested buyer.

me calls gilARTlizards.com

Hi, I'd like to purchase 10 Gila Monsters

GilARTlizards.com - oh were sorry, we can't fulfill an order that large

I would really like Mike to explain himself. The confusion lies I think, in that, you and others think he actually placed or intending to place an order, when, in the context of what some have done in the PDF hobby have done is to pose as interested buyers, in order to see what we can expose. It was not very hard to find out in fact that they don't have anywhere near the number of frogs they claim.
 
ZooKeeperDoug said:
I don't know how to any better explain it.

Calling and asking for something is different than actually placing an order. I'm confident it was a fact finding mission to see if they would actually be able to provide the number of frogs they claim they could. In this case, it seems, that though they boast about crazy inventory, they could not even fulfill a relatively small simple order.

Let's say for example, someone says they have thousands of Gila monsters for sale! all captive bred in the past two years. Knowing what I know about Gilas, this sounds preposterous, so based on that suspicion, I call, pretending to be an interested buyer.

me calls gilARTlizards.com

Hi, I'd like to purchase 10 Gila Monsters

GilARTlizards.com - oh were sorry, we can't fulfill an order that large

I would really like Mike to explain himself. The confusion lies I think, in that, you and others think he actually placed or intending to place an order, when, in the context of what some have done in the PDF hobby have done is to pose as interested buyers, in order to see what we can expose. It was not very hard to find out in fact that they don't have anywhere near the number of frogs they claim.
Click to expand...

You're "confident" it was a fact finding mission? Or you're sure it was? Sounds like Mike has explained himself. To you.
 
Chris Kennard said:
You're "confident" it was a fact finding mission? Or you're sure it was? Sounds like Mike has explained himself. To you.
Click to expand...

Your assumptions are incorrect. Mike has not specifically explained this or anything to me. Beyond him pointing out that he started this thread, and me informing him that I thought that was I'll advised and that he needs to back up his statements here, we have had no other direct communication.

I do see what you're trying to do though. Nice try.
 
ZooKeeperDoug said:
Your assumptions are incorrect. Mike has not specifically explained this or anything to me. Beyond him pointing out that he started this thread, and me informing him that I thought that was I'll advised and that he needs to back up his statements here, we have had no other direct communication.

I do see what you're trying to do though. Nice try.
Click to expand...

No, you don't. I don't believe for one second that he hasn't "specifically" explained anything to you. I've read your well written and well crafted posts. You guys like to play detective? Great! Show us a victim. You? Your pal Mike? Proof? For the last time, YOUR IN THE WRONG FORUM! I'm sure everyone is impressed by your little sting operation. We get it. They don't have enough frogs to sell you guys. Oh, and all tje kiddies out there who are viewing...SANITIZE YOUR HANDS AFTER HANDLING ANY AND ALL REPTILES AND AMPHIBIANS! Duh.
 
I think Doug and I more than once both stated this should not have been put in the BOI but since it was here we would at least fill in some back ground, if that bothers you maybe you should not view this thread. It seems you think you know what was said behind the scenes, you do not. It seems you have no understanding at all that some of us from the frog community came into this thread in an attempt to clean up what Mike started. Do we in the frog community have a problem with this family/company, that's a big yes. They potentially if successful with sales could do damage that would take a long time to undo if it ever could.
Nothing more needs be said about these people on the BOI, I will not comment in this thread again but at least you all know why our community has taken this stance.
 
Chris Kennard said:
No, you don't. I don't believe for one second that he hasn't "specifically" explained anything to you. I've read your well written and well crafted posts. You guys like to play detective? Great! Show us a victim. You? Your pal Mike? Proof? For the last time, YOUR[sic] IN THE WRONG FORUM! I'm sure everyone is impressed by your little sting operation. We get it. They don't have enough frogs to sell you guys. Oh, and all tje[sic] kiddies out there who are viewing...SANITIZE YOUR HANDS AFTER HANDLING ANY AND ALL REPTILES AND AMPHIBIANS! Duh.
Click to expand...

Sure I do. It was pretty transparent.

Thank you for complimenting me on my well written and well crafted posts. I appreciate the compliments.

As for reading my well crafted posts great. Perhaps your reading comprehension is flawed. I've stated quite a few times already, that I TOO don't think it belongs here. Specifically because there isn't a victim that has been wronged, which is what the BOI is supposed to be about.
 
ZooKeeperDoug said:
Sure I do. It was pretty transparent.

Thank you for complimenting me on my well written and well crafted posts. I appreciate the compliments.

As for reading my well crafted posts great. Perhaps your reading comprehension is flawed. I've stated quite a few times already, that I TOO don't think it belongs here. Specifically because there isn't a victim that has been wronged, which is what the BOI is supposed to be about.
Click to expand...

I got it. Post #52 right? That was what, before your last 12 or 13 posts. In post 52, you also said you had mixed feelings about it being here. Interesting. At least you got that "cowards" comment in there. And for someone who doesn't agree this thread belongs here, you sure fooled me with that "let's see where this goes, shall we" comment at the end of post 52. Who are you kidding?
 
markpulawski said:
I think Doug and I more than once both stated this should not have been put in the BOI but since it was here we would at least fill in some back ground, if that bothers you maybe you should not view this thread. It seems you think you know what was said behind the scenes, you do not. It seems you have no understanding at all that some of us from the frog community came into this thread in an attempt to clean up what Mike started. Do we in the frog community have a problem with this family/company, that's a big yes. They potentially if successful with sales could do damage that would take a long time to undo if it ever could.
Nothing more needs be said about these people on the BOI, I will not comment in this thread again but at least you all know why our community has taken this stance.
Click to expand...

Sorry if you felt left out of my posts. In any case, there was nothing to clear up. You guys merely continued his campaign on a forum you admitted it does not belong in.
 
Chris Kennard said:
I got it. Post #52 right? That was what, before your last 12 or 13 posts. In post 52, you also said you had mixed feelings about it being here. Interesting. At least you got that "cowards" comment in there. And for someone who doesn't agree this thread belongs here, you sure fooled me with that "let's see where this goes, shall we" comment at the end of post 52. Who are you kidding?
Click to expand...

Chris, this is really quite simple. It's a simple matter of semantics and word usage which you are misinterpreting. I'm frustrated by your inability to follow along. I shouldn't and won't keep explaining things to you.
 
Chris Kennard said:
Who didn't see that coming?
Click to expand...

You were off and on waffling between viewing and responding to this thread and this is the best response you could muster at 2:30 in the morning?

If I'm going to follow in your footsteps and invoke the fallacious argument of the absent majority....

I'm sure were all a bit disappointed.
 
Warning: Gentlemen, your personal bickering seems to have become an entity separate from the topic of the thread. I'm not following the content, so I'd really rather not have to involve myself deeper than this warning. Focus, please, on those names in the title.
 
hhmoore said:
Warning: Gentlemen, your personal bickering seems to have become an entity separate from the topic of the thread. I'm not following the content, so I'd really rather not have to involve myself deeper than this warning. Focus, please, on those names in the title.
Click to expand...

Duely noted sir.
 
No one was abandoning any thread. I made this thread 100% to warn even 1 potential customer at their b.s. business practices. I never ever ordered frogs or anything from them. I simply called them posing as a potential customer, asked if they could fill a simple order and they could NOT. Now someone who claims to have 6,000+ stock would be able to fill a simple order of 10+ animals. I def. haven't abandoned anything. Anyone who personally knows me knows about what is going on in my personal life right now. I am sorry I haven't had time to put facts up for all the super sleuths of fauna. I really wish Dillon and Rick would come here and talk but they are cowards. Yeah a heartwarming story Lucille?!? Lol spending your child's college fund to start a dart frog company. That is genius heartwarming and wonderful. Lucille forgets to tell everyone her vendetta against me. I don't care to say what I said to her. But it took a few days and now you are getting filled in on this. Have Dillon and rick ripped anyone off?? We don't know because anyone who buys from them is so embarrassed after they find out who they really are they won't say anything. I made this post to reach anyone who hasn't seen threads on other boards. Was it the wrong place to do so? Maybe it was but if I can stop one....just one newbie from buying from them, this thread was worth it all. Now this will shed a bit more light on the subject. Nobody wants this hobby to turn into the nasty hybrid snake hobby. Het. This x with that ...disgusts me. Blast me all you want. The guys who have blasted me aren't obviously smart enough to learn about spell check. I have gotten my point across. We have exposed dart frog warehouse once again. Have a nice evening.
 
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