I forgot to add, You should post email and text messages also.
-
Responding to email notices you receive.
**************************************************
In short, DON'T! Email notices are to ONLY alert you of a reply to your private message or your ad on this site. Replying to the email just wastes your time as it goes NOWHERE, and probably pisses off the person you thought you replied to when they think you just ignored them. So instead of complaining to me about your messages not being replied to from this site via email, please READ that email notice that plainly states what you need to do in order to reply to who you are trying to converse with.
-
IMPORTANT! PLEASE READ!! About the Google Adsense ads being displayed
=====================
Posted 08/15/2025
=====================
Yeah, I know. They are a pain in the butt. But they pay the bills to keep my server running. Just a fact of life, I am afraid.
Want to get rid of them? Simple. Just become a Contributor level member or above and they will be gone. -> Please click HERE."
Is that too much for me to ask of you to keep this site running? Well, sorry about that. I too wish I could get everything for free. But alas.....
=====================
Addendum: 01/10/2026
=====================
Google Adsense ad revenue for December, 2025 was just $30 over the cost of the lease for the server running this site. So, in effect, the money providing the incentive for me to continue running this site is coming SOLELY from the paid memberships and sponsorships here. Which honestly ain't much....
Bad Guy ReptMart - Diseased Dragon
- Thread starter mymoa
- Start date
I forgot to add, You should post email and text messages also.
Mistyck
Blah
If they said they'd refund you the cost of the dragon, and you are choosing to keep the dragon, then that's on you. What guarantee did they give when you bought him? Did they give you a full health guarantee? If not, then that's on you.
Also the "laws" that you're quoting do NOT apply to reptiles. So your point is moot there.
While I don't agree with selling animals that may have the possibility of being sick, if there wasn't guarantees in place, then you're playing (as you said) Russian Roulette with the animals you're buying.
They offered you a refund on the animal, and NEVER told you to take it in to the vet, therefore you incurred those charges without their say so...So they are offering you money back on what you bought, nothing more.
Also the "laws" that you're quoting do NOT apply to reptiles. So your point is moot there.
While I don't agree with selling animals that may have the possibility of being sick, if there wasn't guarantees in place, then you're playing (as you said) Russian Roulette with the animals you're buying.
They offered you a refund on the animal, and NEVER told you to take it in to the vet, therefore you incurred those charges without their say so...So they are offering you money back on what you bought, nothing more.
laterob
Not THAT Bad of a guy...
I believe OP said $400 was for the enclosure, which she wouldn't be comfortable using again.
Mistyck
Blah
She might be taking into account that she spent $200 each to get her other animals tested after getting this first one tested...(But I could be reading things wrong...) She also did say that she spent over $400 setting up the enclosure (which is totally outrageous, even if you did buy everything retail
)As I said before, unless they gave you a health guarantee, and then told you to take the animal to a vet, then you're incurring those charges on your own. It does NOT work both ways, especially with no health guarantee.
mymoa
New member
OK I thought this was done as I said I let it go. I realize that I will NOT get any refund over the price of the dragon if I return him and they are paying for the shipping for him to return.
I'm not sure why this conversation is continuing unless it is for me to provide proof that I even bought something from them to be able to make the bad guy claim.
I have attached a partial scan of the medical records I sent to them regarding Kacey's medical status.
I am going to be repeating myself here as I gave this information in previous posts. And also answer questions that have come up. I can NOT provide proof od telephone calls and this is unfortunate as I like to talk to people on the phone to clarify things but when it gets to be where I need documentation I will email.
I feel that I did my best to check them out. As I stated earlier I looked at their site on Facebook, I checked them out on this website, I checked with The BBB in their area to see if there were any claims filed. I read the mission statement on their website. I also read the blurb where it states that if certain states require a certificate of health that would be $15.00 extra. My state is NOT one of those listed. I called initially and spoke to Jaime and she was very nice. I am NOT making any negative statement on the quality of her customer service interactions.
On the phone I did ask if the dragons were tested for ADV. She told me that they did random enclosure testing, and she couldn't tell me if this one had been in an enclosure that had been tested. I CAN NOT prove this phone call happened. I did not record it. I did ASSUME (my bad) that since they knew enough to test at all that they might be a responsible facility. This ASSUMPTION was also further boosted by the reviews here I read which stated that people had had such great experiences with the owners and they had an attention to detail. I did not ask about a specific health guarantee as I figure NJ law would apply as it does here even for reptiles. I have not had an issue with this on any animal I have bought in state if there was a medical issue. MY BAD FOR FIGURING. So so far there has been a lot of Figuring and Assuming. I know now that since the ADV is so common I can not treat buying a dragon like any other purchase, I have to be suspicious first even when I feel that I have researched the situation.
NO Jamie did NOT tell me to take the dragon to the vet. As I stated earlier it is what I do when I get a new animal as I DO NOT ASSUME I should wait just in case there is a problem. When Kacey was not eating I contacted Jaime by email and asked her about the situation. I can post that email and the pictures with it as well as her response. This was all before the vet visit which I said had been set up right when I ordered him. She had me send pictures of my set up.
Here are the initial emails: (the one where I showed her the set up was a text, I could try to retrieve it)
> From: [email protected]
> Date: April 25, 2014 at 2:03:07 PM EDT
> To: [email protected]
> Cc: [email protected]
> Subject: Warr-Williams Bearded Dragon Issues
>
> Hi Jamie,
>
> Here is Kacey's stats and setup.
>
> Vivarium:
>
> 20 gallon Long
> Reptisun UVB 10.0 whole tank lamp
> Basking lamp 100w the basking lamp is about 10" from his perch
> 2 Ceramic Heaters 100w (as needed)
> Shallow water dish
>
> Food attempted:
>
> Greens (mix of mustard, turnip, collard, Belgium endive, dandelion greens with carrots)
> Medium Reptiworms
> Small Dubia roaches
> small crickets
> tiny horn worms
> I have misted him with warm water and gave him a 20 minute soak last night with no poop.
> 3 times I have syringe fed him a mix of bee pollen, vitamin D (liquid), herptivite with beta carotene, and oxbow carnivore care. about 3ml.
>
> His stats:
>
> Estimated DOB 3/5/14
> Has not shed since he came here
>
> 4/15/2014 5g 7" 6wks arrival day
> 4/15/2014 8g evening
> 4/16/2014 8g
> 4/17/2014 8g
> 4/18/2014 8g 7' 6wks
>
> 4/20/2014 8g
> 4/22/2014 7g
>
> 2/24/2014 8g 7.25"
The pictures of him were what I sent in this initial email (attached below)
As I have stated earlier I sent her pictures of my set up right after the dragon was shipped to let her know where it was going to. When he didn't eat she made suggestions about changes in the heat and thermometer locations. Here was her reply email:
> From: ReptMart <[email protected]>
> Date: April 28, 2014 at 4:37:51 PM EDT
> To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
> Subject: RE: Warr-Williams Bearded Dragon Issues
>
> Jacqui,
>
>
>
> Sorry it took me so long to get back to you on this. I have a few suggestions. He looks great himself though!
>
>
>
> 1) Move the thermometers to the bottom of the cage.
>
> 2) Move the heat lamp to the far right side of the cage and the rock right under it
>
> 3) You may need to decrease the wattage you are using for heat, I think it is a little hot in there for him
>
> 4) From you pictures I am assuming you are trying to feed in a separate enclosure, if this is the case, you may want to try to feed him in his habitat.
>
> 5) It may be beneficial to add another basking rock lower to the ground or another hiding area for him as well
>
>
>
> Jamie C.
>
> Sales & Customer Service
>
> (239) 455-7684
It was right after this that I went to the vet. You can see the bills and the diagnosis posted. I could not tell the vet check him out but if something is wrong don't bill me I'll send him back. So at that point I had to treat him. I contacted her after going to the vet to let her know that he had a very severe case of Coccidia (more severe than the normal levels, and more than the normal levels incurred due to stress.)
I will continue this in the next post
I'm not sure why this conversation is continuing unless it is for me to provide proof that I even bought something from them to be able to make the bad guy claim.
I have attached a partial scan of the medical records I sent to them regarding Kacey's medical status.
I am going to be repeating myself here as I gave this information in previous posts. And also answer questions that have come up. I can NOT provide proof od telephone calls and this is unfortunate as I like to talk to people on the phone to clarify things but when it gets to be where I need documentation I will email.
I feel that I did my best to check them out. As I stated earlier I looked at their site on Facebook, I checked them out on this website, I checked with The BBB in their area to see if there were any claims filed. I read the mission statement on their website. I also read the blurb where it states that if certain states require a certificate of health that would be $15.00 extra. My state is NOT one of those listed. I called initially and spoke to Jaime and she was very nice. I am NOT making any negative statement on the quality of her customer service interactions.
On the phone I did ask if the dragons were tested for ADV. She told me that they did random enclosure testing, and she couldn't tell me if this one had been in an enclosure that had been tested. I CAN NOT prove this phone call happened. I did not record it. I did ASSUME (my bad) that since they knew enough to test at all that they might be a responsible facility. This ASSUMPTION was also further boosted by the reviews here I read which stated that people had had such great experiences with the owners and they had an attention to detail. I did not ask about a specific health guarantee as I figure NJ law would apply as it does here even for reptiles. I have not had an issue with this on any animal I have bought in state if there was a medical issue. MY BAD FOR FIGURING. So so far there has been a lot of Figuring and Assuming. I know now that since the ADV is so common I can not treat buying a dragon like any other purchase, I have to be suspicious first even when I feel that I have researched the situation.
NO Jamie did NOT tell me to take the dragon to the vet. As I stated earlier it is what I do when I get a new animal as I DO NOT ASSUME I should wait just in case there is a problem. When Kacey was not eating I contacted Jaime by email and asked her about the situation. I can post that email and the pictures with it as well as her response. This was all before the vet visit which I said had been set up right when I ordered him. She had me send pictures of my set up.
Here are the initial emails: (the one where I showed her the set up was a text, I could try to retrieve it)
> From: [email protected]
> Date: April 25, 2014 at 2:03:07 PM EDT
> To: [email protected]
> Cc: [email protected]
> Subject: Warr-Williams Bearded Dragon Issues
>
> Hi Jamie,
>
> Here is Kacey's stats and setup.
>
> Vivarium:
>
> 20 gallon Long
> Reptisun UVB 10.0 whole tank lamp
> Basking lamp 100w the basking lamp is about 10" from his perch
> 2 Ceramic Heaters 100w (as needed)
> Shallow water dish
>
> Food attempted:
>
> Greens (mix of mustard, turnip, collard, Belgium endive, dandelion greens with carrots)
> Medium Reptiworms
> Small Dubia roaches
> small crickets
> tiny horn worms
> I have misted him with warm water and gave him a 20 minute soak last night with no poop.
> 3 times I have syringe fed him a mix of bee pollen, vitamin D (liquid), herptivite with beta carotene, and oxbow carnivore care. about 3ml.
>
> His stats:
>
> Estimated DOB 3/5/14
> Has not shed since he came here
>
> 4/15/2014 5g 7" 6wks arrival day
> 4/15/2014 8g evening
> 4/16/2014 8g
> 4/17/2014 8g
> 4/18/2014 8g 7' 6wks
>
> 4/20/2014 8g
> 4/22/2014 7g
>
> 2/24/2014 8g 7.25"
The pictures of him were what I sent in this initial email (attached below)
As I have stated earlier I sent her pictures of my set up right after the dragon was shipped to let her know where it was going to. When he didn't eat she made suggestions about changes in the heat and thermometer locations. Here was her reply email:
> From: ReptMart <[email protected]>
> Date: April 28, 2014 at 4:37:51 PM EDT
> To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
> Subject: RE: Warr-Williams Bearded Dragon Issues
>
> Jacqui,
>
>
>
> Sorry it took me so long to get back to you on this. I have a few suggestions. He looks great himself though!
>
>
>
> 1) Move the thermometers to the bottom of the cage.
>
> 2) Move the heat lamp to the far right side of the cage and the rock right under it
>
> 3) You may need to decrease the wattage you are using for heat, I think it is a little hot in there for him
>
> 4) From you pictures I am assuming you are trying to feed in a separate enclosure, if this is the case, you may want to try to feed him in his habitat.
>
> 5) It may be beneficial to add another basking rock lower to the ground or another hiding area for him as well
>
>
>
> Jamie C.
>
> Sales & Customer Service
>
> (239) 455-7684
It was right after this that I went to the vet. You can see the bills and the diagnosis posted. I could not tell the vet check him out but if something is wrong don't bill me I'll send him back. So at that point I had to treat him. I contacted her after going to the vet to let her know that he had a very severe case of Coccidia (more severe than the normal levels, and more than the normal levels incurred due to stress.)
I will continue this in the next post
Attachments
I seen the quote of 400.00 for cage also but she says 400.00 for vet and supplements. Just seems extremely high.
laterob
Not THAT Bad of a guy...
Sorry, Joe...I forgot/ didn't see that other $400.
mymoa
New member
When I got the Coccidia results I had not gotten the ADV results yet.
Timeline - I receive him 4/15/14 ( I had to go to the FedEx location because Reptmart missed the cutoff and he would have stayed in the station until the afternoon. I was checking and checking because he was due by 10:30am. Reptmart did refund the shipping fee)
I went to the vet 4/17/14 which is when the records are from. (they are also from 4/21/14 be3cause that is when I got the results for the ADV.
Here is the email I sent Jaime about the Coccidia:
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, April 28, 2014 5:25 PM
To: ReptMart
Subject: Re: Warr-Williams Bearded Dragon Issues
Hi Jaime,
I had him to the vet Saturday and she said he has a very serious case of Coccidia so he was just put on Trimethoprim Sulfa.
I'm doing liquid feedings and baths to keep him hydrated.
I'm going to have to watch because he can lose his appetite from the antibiotic.
I'll keep you updated. I'm also having him tested for atadenovirus just to be sure.
I'm glad I took him to the vet. I'm lucky to have a reptile specialist vet close by.
Jacqui
I then left her a VM about the ADV and then she sent me this email:
> From: ReptMart <[email protected]>
> Date: April 30, 2014 at 3:55:42 PM EDT
> To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
> Subject: RE: Warr-Williams Bearded Dragon Issues
>
> Send me whatever records from the vet that you get and I will share with my animal care manager and see. Thanks!
>
>
>
> Jamie C.
>
> Sales & Customer Service
>
> (239) 455-7684
This is when I sent the records I attached in the previous post.
Here is the set of emails that happened after that:
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
> Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2014 2:27 AM
> To: ReptMart
> Subject: Re: Warr-Williams Bearded Dragon Issues
>
>
>
> Jamie
>
> So the long and short of it. On a rating scale of Coccodia levels it's rated 1 to 4+ in severity. Kacey is a 4+. My exotics/reptile vet vet said she hasn't seen a reptile with this high a level. I took Kacey to the vet the Saturday after I received him. That is 5 days. The vet said the infection came from the breeder.
>
> Then tonight after I received your email about sending the information to you I found out that he is also Atadenovirus positive.
>
> You can see the chart information and results as well as the medication regimen I have to have him on as well as the syringe feedings daily as he will NOT eat anything. This has nothing to do with my lighting and set up. It was a brand new tank and he's been quarantined.
>
> I bought from your store even though it was online because I read that you had such good reviews on the Fauna Classifieds with a Good Guy rating.
>
> I am beyond devastated and cant imagine how the people who received dragons from the same grouping feel. The scary thing is that when I asked you about the tail nips or finger bites, that was not something that had been thought of. I would have been sent a dragon with an injury if I hadn't asked. Breeders know to disclose this and reduce the price for injuries. Its sad that Kacey doesn't have the tail nips he was either alone or he was one of the "dominant "ones. I distinctly asked about if your company tests for Atadenovirus and you checked and told me it was random enclosure swabbing but you didn't know if he had been tested.
>
> Now I have a beautiful little dragon who could die at any day, and who could have infected my other dragons if I hadn't known to quarantine and have him tested myself. My vet asked what I wanted to do. I know that many people do put theirs down to prevent possible illness and pain in the future.
>
> Like I said I am very disgusted and would have been better getting another one from Petsmart becasue at least I know to expect issues.
>
> Jacqui
> From: ReptMart <[email protected]>
> Date: May 1, 2014 at 2:15:39 PM EDT
> To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
> Subject: RE: Warr-Williams Bearded Dragon Issues
>
> Jacqui,
>
>
>
> I just received your voicemail and I am sorry to see these results. We do test our colony on a regular basis but unfortunately it is becoming a more common issue across the US. I would like to have him sent back so that I can test him here and evaluate any issues that we are having. Did you keep the box so that I can just send a return label?
>
>
>
> Jamie C.
>
> Sales & Customer Service
>
> (239) 455-7684
>
From: Jacqqui [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2014 2:19 PM
To: ReptMart
Subject: Re: Warr-Williams Bearded Dragon Issues
No I didn't keep the box. I just threw it away.
I'm also scared to send them back because he may not make it and I've been attached to him but I'll do what I have to do let me know what you need.
Jacqui
> From: ReptMart <[email protected]>
> Date: May 1, 2014 at 2:20:06 PM EDT
> To: Jacqqui <[email protected]>
> Subject: RE: Warr-Williams Bearded Dragon Issues
>
> I can ground you a box today with everything and that will get to you next week and you can send him back. I will give you all of the instructions to do so in the box.
>
>
>
> Jamie C.
>
> Sales & Customer Service
>
> (239) 455-7684
From: Jacqqui [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2014 2:54 PM
To: ReptMart
Subject: Re: Warr-Williams Bearded Dragon Issues
What would be the remedy if you find that our findings are confirmed?
Sent from my iPhone
From: Jacqqui [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2014 3:26 PM
To: ReptMart
Subject: Re: Warr-Williams Bearded Dragon Issues
And medical bills?
Sent from my iPhone
On May 1, 2014, at 2:54 PM, ReptMart <[email protected]> wrote:
I plan to refund you for him once he gets here.
Jamie C.
Sales & Customer Service
(239) 455-7684
<image001.jpg>
From: Jacqqui [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2014 3:26 PM
To: ReptMart
Subject: Re: Warr-Williams Bearded Dragon Issues
And medical bills?
Sent from my iPhone
On May 1, 2014, at 3:37 PM, ReptMart <[email protected]> wrote:
We normally don’t cover those as I would have just taken him back if you were medically concerned about him.
Jamie C.
Sales & Customer Service
(239) 455-7684
From: Jacqqui [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2014 4:17 PM
To: ReptMart
Subject: Re: Warr-Williams Bearded Dragon Issues
Ok I'd like to discuss that further as I wasn't medically concerned until after I'd taken him in and got the results. I did mention the not eating to you early on and you were helpful with suggestions but that wouldn't have been a reason to send him back. I had the adenovirus swab done during that initial visit but the results just came back last night so I also didn't know that.
Jacqui
Sent from my iPhone
> From: ReptMart <[email protected]>
> Date: May 1, 2014 at 4:21:55 PM EDT
> To: Jacqqui <[email protected]>
> Subject: RE: Warr-Williams Bearded Dragon Issues
>
> I am sorry, we do not pay for medical bills. I will take him back and issue you a refund.
>
>
>
> Jamie C.
>
> Sales & Customer Service
>
> (239) 455-7684
And that's where it ended. Then I was posting on this board while I waited for the final word from them and during these email exchanges.
I hope this is enough proof for anyone who may have thought that I just came on here to ruin the good name of a wholesale and retail dealer.
The vet bills that I included do not include the cost of the follow up visit of 60.00 for the results of the ADV and to recheck him and give fluids.
The money for the set up is a wash and I would never expect anyone to refund what I decided to buy him to live in. I also will not reuse any of the items on another dragon I don't care what anyone says about how clean it can be. The bills also do not include the cost of the supportive things that I bought which are home remedies for him after I got the diagnosis.
For the record the tank set up was around $400 with the things below and shipping costs on some items I ordered. I WOULD NEVER think to ask for a refund on these items. It's not their responsibility how I choose to house my dragon.
basking light 20
tank 35
lid 20
thermometers 2 sets 25
Climbing perch 28
water dish 10
lamp holder 19
lamp domes 2 small 17 each for the ceramic heaters
ceramic heaters 2 at 16
Lamp dome for the basking light 25
6 plug timed power strip to let the lights on and off at set times 30
food tongs 17
tank stand 50
2 hammocks 20
So the costs above was just an FYI because someone said it couldn't cost around $400 to get a set up going.
and I'm not adding the $150 steam cleaner I bought because of the Coccidia.
I use the bleach and water solution and then the steam cleaner (had to get a bigger portable one not the little hand helds to make sure that the water temps got high enough.
Ok so is this enough info to let this go. I put out there what I wanted which was they are selling some dragons with ADV even though you can see in Jaimie's email that they do testing. This was not an email I got before hand. She just told me they did random testing before hand.
My bad for buying a dragon, my bad from buying from a retailer/wholesaler even when they make claims of healthy animals in their website. My bad for even posting as I feel that I was attacked as far as my credibility to even say any of this. I'm not sure of the reason for this BOI section if one cant state what their individual experience was.
I guess from all the comments stating tough luck on me, I should change this rating to a Good Guy status because it was all my fault for buying a dragon and having any other expectation of quality and health even when the website states it is their mission. That is not "in writing" and wasn't specific to my animal. I am also unreasonable to think that if a facility says they test that that means that all of the results are positive. I should have asked if the results they get are positive because testing means just that testing, not what the results are. and I should NEVER take an animal I just bought that I am going to bring into my home with my other animals to a vet UNLESS THE PLACE I BOUGHT IT FROM SAYS SO.
Okay so can we REALLY let this go? I get it I was wrong.
Timeline - I receive him 4/15/14 ( I had to go to the FedEx location because Reptmart missed the cutoff and he would have stayed in the station until the afternoon. I was checking and checking because he was due by 10:30am. Reptmart did refund the shipping fee)
I went to the vet 4/17/14 which is when the records are from. (they are also from 4/21/14 be3cause that is when I got the results for the ADV.
Here is the email I sent Jaime about the Coccidia:
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, April 28, 2014 5:25 PM
To: ReptMart
Subject: Re: Warr-Williams Bearded Dragon Issues
Hi Jaime,
I had him to the vet Saturday and she said he has a very serious case of Coccidia so he was just put on Trimethoprim Sulfa.
I'm doing liquid feedings and baths to keep him hydrated.
I'm going to have to watch because he can lose his appetite from the antibiotic.
I'll keep you updated. I'm also having him tested for atadenovirus just to be sure.
I'm glad I took him to the vet. I'm lucky to have a reptile specialist vet close by.
Jacqui
I then left her a VM about the ADV and then she sent me this email:
> From: ReptMart <[email protected]>
> Date: April 30, 2014 at 3:55:42 PM EDT
> To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
> Subject: RE: Warr-Williams Bearded Dragon Issues
>
> Send me whatever records from the vet that you get and I will share with my animal care manager and see. Thanks!
>
>
>
> Jamie C.
>
> Sales & Customer Service
>
> (239) 455-7684
This is when I sent the records I attached in the previous post.
Here is the set of emails that happened after that:
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
> Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2014 2:27 AM
> To: ReptMart
> Subject: Re: Warr-Williams Bearded Dragon Issues
>
>
>
> Jamie
>
> So the long and short of it. On a rating scale of Coccodia levels it's rated 1 to 4+ in severity. Kacey is a 4+. My exotics/reptile vet vet said she hasn't seen a reptile with this high a level. I took Kacey to the vet the Saturday after I received him. That is 5 days. The vet said the infection came from the breeder.
>
> Then tonight after I received your email about sending the information to you I found out that he is also Atadenovirus positive.
>
> You can see the chart information and results as well as the medication regimen I have to have him on as well as the syringe feedings daily as he will NOT eat anything. This has nothing to do with my lighting and set up. It was a brand new tank and he's been quarantined.
>
> I bought from your store even though it was online because I read that you had such good reviews on the Fauna Classifieds with a Good Guy rating.
>
> I am beyond devastated and cant imagine how the people who received dragons from the same grouping feel. The scary thing is that when I asked you about the tail nips or finger bites, that was not something that had been thought of. I would have been sent a dragon with an injury if I hadn't asked. Breeders know to disclose this and reduce the price for injuries. Its sad that Kacey doesn't have the tail nips he was either alone or he was one of the "dominant "ones. I distinctly asked about if your company tests for Atadenovirus and you checked and told me it was random enclosure swabbing but you didn't know if he had been tested.
>
> Now I have a beautiful little dragon who could die at any day, and who could have infected my other dragons if I hadn't known to quarantine and have him tested myself. My vet asked what I wanted to do. I know that many people do put theirs down to prevent possible illness and pain in the future.
>
> Like I said I am very disgusted and would have been better getting another one from Petsmart becasue at least I know to expect issues.
>
> Jacqui
> From: ReptMart <[email protected]>
> Date: May 1, 2014 at 2:15:39 PM EDT
> To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
> Subject: RE: Warr-Williams Bearded Dragon Issues
>
> Jacqui,
>
>
>
> I just received your voicemail and I am sorry to see these results. We do test our colony on a regular basis but unfortunately it is becoming a more common issue across the US. I would like to have him sent back so that I can test him here and evaluate any issues that we are having. Did you keep the box so that I can just send a return label?
>
>
>
> Jamie C.
>
> Sales & Customer Service
>
> (239) 455-7684
>
From: Jacqqui [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2014 2:19 PM
To: ReptMart
Subject: Re: Warr-Williams Bearded Dragon Issues
No I didn't keep the box. I just threw it away.
I'm also scared to send them back because he may not make it and I've been attached to him but I'll do what I have to do let me know what you need.
Jacqui
> From: ReptMart <[email protected]>
> Date: May 1, 2014 at 2:20:06 PM EDT
> To: Jacqqui <[email protected]>
> Subject: RE: Warr-Williams Bearded Dragon Issues
>
> I can ground you a box today with everything and that will get to you next week and you can send him back. I will give you all of the instructions to do so in the box.
>
>
>
> Jamie C.
>
> Sales & Customer Service
>
> (239) 455-7684
From: Jacqqui [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2014 2:54 PM
To: ReptMart
Subject: Re: Warr-Williams Bearded Dragon Issues
What would be the remedy if you find that our findings are confirmed?
Sent from my iPhone
From: Jacqqui [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2014 3:26 PM
To: ReptMart
Subject: Re: Warr-Williams Bearded Dragon Issues
And medical bills?
Sent from my iPhone
On May 1, 2014, at 2:54 PM, ReptMart <[email protected]> wrote:
I plan to refund you for him once he gets here.
Jamie C.
Sales & Customer Service
(239) 455-7684
<image001.jpg>
From: Jacqqui [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2014 3:26 PM
To: ReptMart
Subject: Re: Warr-Williams Bearded Dragon Issues
And medical bills?
Sent from my iPhone
On May 1, 2014, at 3:37 PM, ReptMart <[email protected]> wrote:
We normally don’t cover those as I would have just taken him back if you were medically concerned about him.
Jamie C.
Sales & Customer Service
(239) 455-7684
From: Jacqqui [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2014 4:17 PM
To: ReptMart
Subject: Re: Warr-Williams Bearded Dragon Issues
Ok I'd like to discuss that further as I wasn't medically concerned until after I'd taken him in and got the results. I did mention the not eating to you early on and you were helpful with suggestions but that wouldn't have been a reason to send him back. I had the adenovirus swab done during that initial visit but the results just came back last night so I also didn't know that.
Jacqui
Sent from my iPhone
> From: ReptMart <[email protected]>
> Date: May 1, 2014 at 4:21:55 PM EDT
> To: Jacqqui <[email protected]>
> Subject: RE: Warr-Williams Bearded Dragon Issues
>
> I am sorry, we do not pay for medical bills. I will take him back and issue you a refund.
>
>
>
> Jamie C.
>
> Sales & Customer Service
>
> (239) 455-7684
And that's where it ended. Then I was posting on this board while I waited for the final word from them and during these email exchanges.
I hope this is enough proof for anyone who may have thought that I just came on here to ruin the good name of a wholesale and retail dealer.
The vet bills that I included do not include the cost of the follow up visit of 60.00 for the results of the ADV and to recheck him and give fluids.
The money for the set up is a wash and I would never expect anyone to refund what I decided to buy him to live in. I also will not reuse any of the items on another dragon I don't care what anyone says about how clean it can be. The bills also do not include the cost of the supportive things that I bought which are home remedies for him after I got the diagnosis.
For the record the tank set up was around $400 with the things below and shipping costs on some items I ordered. I WOULD NEVER think to ask for a refund on these items. It's not their responsibility how I choose to house my dragon.
basking light 20
tank 35
lid 20
thermometers 2 sets 25
Climbing perch 28
water dish 10
lamp holder 19
lamp domes 2 small 17 each for the ceramic heaters
ceramic heaters 2 at 16
Lamp dome for the basking light 25
6 plug timed power strip to let the lights on and off at set times 30
food tongs 17
tank stand 50
2 hammocks 20
So the costs above was just an FYI because someone said it couldn't cost around $400 to get a set up going.
and I'm not adding the $150 steam cleaner I bought because of the Coccidia.
I use the bleach and water solution and then the steam cleaner (had to get a bigger portable one not the little hand helds to make sure that the water temps got high enough.
Ok so is this enough info to let this go. I put out there what I wanted which was they are selling some dragons with ADV even though you can see in Jaimie's email that they do testing. This was not an email I got before hand. She just told me they did random testing before hand.
My bad for buying a dragon, my bad from buying from a retailer/wholesaler even when they make claims of healthy animals in their website. My bad for even posting as I feel that I was attacked as far as my credibility to even say any of this. I'm not sure of the reason for this BOI section if one cant state what their individual experience was.
I guess from all the comments stating tough luck on me, I should change this rating to a Good Guy status because it was all my fault for buying a dragon and having any other expectation of quality and health even when the website states it is their mission. That is not "in writing" and wasn't specific to my animal. I am also unreasonable to think that if a facility says they test that that means that all of the results are positive. I should have asked if the results they get are positive because testing means just that testing, not what the results are. and I should NEVER take an animal I just bought that I am going to bring into my home with my other animals to a vet UNLESS THE PLACE I BOUGHT IT FROM SAYS SO.
Okay so can we REALLY let this go? I get it I was wrong.
mymoa
New member
She might be taking into account that she spent $200 each to get her other animals tested after getting this first one tested...(But I could be reading things wrong...) She also did say that she spent over $400 setting up the enclosure (which is totally outrageous, even if you did buy everything retail
I said the $200 for having my other two tested for ADV. That was said to make the point that I am vigilant with the health of my animals. I had already had them tested at the lab in TX and my vet had used a lab in ohio I think but since U of Florida is supposed to be the definitive research testing site I had blood and fecals sent there as well.
This is the place to bring your individual experience. But answers to questions and documentation help future readers get a better idea if what happened, factual proof is persuasive.
And often as more information unfolds everyone benefits.
SoCalAce
Member
It's far from an attack on you, but everyone would like to get a clear idea of what happened. You put all of the info on the table and people express their opinions. Your experience only validates that buying a bearded dragon from retailer comes with risks. It sounds like they were fair in handling the situation. Frankly, you could put a Good Guy post about them that reads, "They sent me a sick animal, and agreed to pay shipping for the return of the animal and/or send a new one if it didn't survive." That's above and beyond what most business like there's will do. Usually the return shipping is on the customer regardless of satisfaction. Even when I read the emails they seem very professional.
It does suck that you didn't get what you expected, but I'm glad you didn't get screwed out of money or treated poorly by them.
Are the pictures supposed to be proof that it's sick?
I don't want to continue to make it seem like an attack, but I would really like to know how you got two 100w ceramics, a 100w basking light and a UVB lamp all on a 20gal cage? Not only does that seem excessive, it seems impossible.
I don't think that people are really coming down on you for purchasing from a larger corporation.
Coccidia infections in bearded dragons are almost considered universal, it is to the point that it has been demonstrated that they have their own species of coccidian, Isospora amphiboluri. As a result, you may have had the same issues when purchasing from a small scale breeder. Care has to be taken to prevent the lizard(s) from reinfecting themselves so cage cleanliness is paramount. See http://www.vin.com/proceedings/Proceedings.plx?CID=WSAVA2002&Category=866&PID=5714&O=Generic
I think this section needs a little bit of discussion here.. People often make the assumption that a negative fecal means that the animal is free of parasites. That is not the case, it only means that no parasites were detected in the fecal. If the animal is immunocompetent, infections can go undetected for long periods of time. The only definitive answer a fecal can tell you is when there is a positive result.
The grading of the fecal on a scale of 1-4+ is subjective and different lab techs and vets may have significant differences of opinion on how to rate the results so you can't really use that to say that the immunosuppression brought on by shipping didn't kick it into high gear. In some herps, treating coccidia with albon doesn't eliminate the infection. It simply prevents the coccidian from reproducing allowing time for the tissues to heal and the immune response to get the infection back under control.
As for small breeder versus large operation, I don't tend to see one as absolutely better than the other as there are a lot of things to take into consideration ranging from quarantine to cleanliness to diet to necropsies.
I've been around long enough to see problems from both sides of that fence.
Some comments
Ed
mymoa
New member
The impossible
My house is an old Victorian and it gets drafty. That can make it hard to keep even the cool side above the high. 50's so I have a ceramic on each side if needed and the basking light. They are all separate dome lights. The reptisun 10.0 is a strip light that goes the length of the tank. I have not had to use the heater on the cool side since it has warmed up. The main lights on in the daytime are the basking and the reptisun.
Its a 20 gallon long tank.
The pictures are of when I first received him. after a week of not eating and drinking he looked more dehydrated. I think I posted that pic earlier. I can post a pic of my setup when I get home. The comment from them was if I thought he was sick I should have sent him back. That didn't look like sick so him just not eating wasn't a reason to send him back. I am also aware that coccidia is inherently in dragons, not to the level my vet was saying, and if she says it's high and most probably not from 4 days of him being with me. I initially advised them of the coccidia to let them know it was an issue with him and possibly thier stock. I was fine treating the coccidia he was given trim-sulfa (BACTRIM).
Oh I try to keep the babies anywhere from 100-105 on the hot side and 80 on the cool side and at night 68 and 80.
My house is an old Victorian and it gets drafty. That can make it hard to keep even the cool side above the high. 50's so I have a ceramic on each side if needed and the basking light. They are all separate dome lights. The reptisun 10.0 is a strip light that goes the length of the tank. I have not had to use the heater on the cool side since it has warmed up. The main lights on in the daytime are the basking and the reptisun.
Its a 20 gallon long tank.
The pictures are of when I first received him. after a week of not eating and drinking he looked more dehydrated. I think I posted that pic earlier. I can post a pic of my setup when I get home. The comment from them was if I thought he was sick I should have sent him back. That didn't look like sick so him just not eating wasn't a reason to send him back. I am also aware that coccidia is inherently in dragons, not to the level my vet was saying, and if she says it's high and most probably not from 4 days of him being with me. I initially advised them of the coccidia to let them know it was an issue with him and possibly thier stock. I was fine treating the coccidia he was given trim-sulfa (BACTRIM).
Oh I try to keep the babies anywhere from 100-105 on the hot side and 80 on the cool side and at night 68 and 80.
SoCalAce
Member
I see. Thanks for responding. Hopefully he ends up doing ok. He looks like he has some nice colors.
mymoa
New member
The attack part is the fact that since I asked them about testing and they said they did I made the mistaken assumption that that meant that they a wouldn't sell positive dragons. Otherwise why test? I get, well without a health guarantee you dont have a case. I took what they said on the website to be part of what they stood for. I took that and the fact that they test as a health guarantee.
I see that was wrong. What is not helpful are the statements about me being back and forth. I also guess I am the ONLY person who takes all.new animals for a vet check when I get them to make sure they are fine and to comply with NJ regs that an animal has 14 days to be returned. That means have them checked in case something is wrong.
I checked here with petsmart and petco and their policy is if in 14 days something is wrong, I can get a refund or they refund it, have a vet check and treat it so they have the liability,then I would get first shot at buying it back.
What is not helpful as a statement is if I keep him then that's on me. Really??? How is that helpful? That is beyond obvious. I would never decide to keep him and ask for a refund even with medical Evedince.
I see that was wrong. What is not helpful are the statements about me being back and forth. I also guess I am the ONLY person who takes all.new animals for a vet check when I get them to make sure they are fine and to comply with NJ regs that an animal has 14 days to be returned. That means have them checked in case something is wrong.
I checked here with petsmart and petco and their policy is if in 14 days something is wrong, I can get a refund or they refund it, have a vet check and treat it so they have the liability,then I would get first shot at buying it back.
What is not helpful as a statement is if I keep him then that's on me. Really??? How is that helpful? That is beyond obvious. I would never decide to keep him and ask for a refund even with medical Evedince.
Mistyck
Blah
What I have bolded in your statement isn't true for reptiles. It is for dogs and cats. Pet stores can agree with the law, and decide on their own to take returns on animals, but that is a corporate PET SHOP, not a breeder/supplier who has the right to refuse to take returns, (which they did not.)
Also, yes it is on you. Sorry if you don't like the way I worded it, but it is what it is. YOU decided to take the animal to the vet, even when they did not give you a health guarantee. Therefore, you spent money, without having a guarantee. It doesn't matter that it says they "test" their animals, that is not a written or quoted health guarantee. They don't have to guarantee anything, other than the sale price quoted to you.
laterob
Not THAT Bad of a guy...
Mymoa, you didn't get the response you were looking for. I think we're all bummed you have a sick dragon, but many of us feel that you left yourself open to this.
Next time, ask for a health guarantee. The law you refer to doesn't apply!
Next time, ask for a health guarantee. The law you refer to doesn't apply!
laterob
Not THAT Bad of a guy...
There has been no evidence posted that they knowingly sold a sick dragon.
mymoa
New member
Attachments
mymoa
New member
So to summarize what I have learned before I call an entity a "Bad Guy":
1. Understand that ADV is prevalent in the dragon population. Do not assume that just because a breeder/retailer tells you they test for it means their animals don't have it and that they wont be selling animals who are positive, knowingly or unknowingly.
2. Do your research about a breeder/retailer before you buy anything from them inducing animals. This means make sure that if you buy an animal you check out their Health guarantee if they have one, or their sick/dead animal replacement/refund policy.
3. Do not assume that any advertizing claim on the website constitutes any sort of contract regarding the the health of an animal. Get it in writing. or make sure that they provide a health certificate as they are required to do in many states. If your state is not one of those ask for, or purchase the certificate anyway. Website information is just advertizing.
4. Keep complete records of all transactions and correspondences.
5. Acknowledge pro's and con's
So I guess this does actually come down to the argument about ADV and testing. I feel like if you are testing for a potentially life threatening virus, then make sure you are not sending out animals which may test positive at the time of sale. Or just DON'T test.
If you test, non industry/breeder community savvy people will ASSUME that you will not be selling animals which test positive because you appear concerned enough to test. Especially if you have great ratings, great customer service, and glowing reviews. It will make the average joe/jane angry and disappointed because they will feel duped, even though they may not be able to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that they were duped.
I will give credit where credit is due They were extremely nice, it may have taken a while to get a response at times but they addressed my concerns. I learn that they are a "Good Guy" because they even offered to not only replace my dragon but also pay for the shipping which apparently is unheard of. I still say the "bad Guy" because I asked about testing and they do test and I got a diseased dragon.
After all of this discussion I have decided to keep Kacey because just like I am trying to hold them accountable, at the end of the day it was never about money. If ADV is so prevalent then I have to start assuming my dragons will be positive and think about whether or not I am able to provide for and pay for all of their medical bills and be sad and angry if they aren't just shedders and they die early and possibly painfully.
1. Understand that ADV is prevalent in the dragon population. Do not assume that just because a breeder/retailer tells you they test for it means their animals don't have it and that they wont be selling animals who are positive, knowingly or unknowingly.
2. Do your research about a breeder/retailer before you buy anything from them inducing animals. This means make sure that if you buy an animal you check out their Health guarantee if they have one, or their sick/dead animal replacement/refund policy.
3. Do not assume that any advertizing claim on the website constitutes any sort of contract regarding the the health of an animal. Get it in writing. or make sure that they provide a health certificate as they are required to do in many states. If your state is not one of those ask for, or purchase the certificate anyway. Website information is just advertizing.
4. Keep complete records of all transactions and correspondences.
5. Acknowledge pro's and con's
So I guess this does actually come down to the argument about ADV and testing. I feel like if you are testing for a potentially life threatening virus, then make sure you are not sending out animals which may test positive at the time of sale. Or just DON'T test.
If you test, non industry/breeder community savvy people will ASSUME that you will not be selling animals which test positive because you appear concerned enough to test. Especially if you have great ratings, great customer service, and glowing reviews. It will make the average joe/jane angry and disappointed because they will feel duped, even though they may not be able to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that they were duped.
I will give credit where credit is due They were extremely nice, it may have taken a while to get a response at times but they addressed my concerns. I learn that they are a "Good Guy" because they even offered to not only replace my dragon but also pay for the shipping which apparently is unheard of. I still say the "bad Guy" because I asked about testing and they do test and I got a diseased dragon.
After all of this discussion I have decided to keep Kacey because just like I am trying to hold them accountable, at the end of the day it was never about money. If ADV is so prevalent then I have to start assuming my dragons will be positive and think about whether or not I am able to provide for and pay for all of their medical bills and be sad and angry if they aren't just shedders and they die early and possibly painfully.
