Bad Guy jordan russell..broker ..flipper,gone bad

[DaveyFig]

I would like to apologize to Jordan here. I cannot say that I will not make any more posts, to this thread, as we have seen that backfire many times. I just want to say that my posts to this thread were never an attempt to discredit Jordan. As members made subjective posts, I felt (and I don't know why) that I needed to dig deeper and find out what really went on. I tried to be as objective as possible, and in reading my posts it does seem as though I have some sort of beef with Jordan. I don't. I think Jordan is awesome. As I posted I felt as though I was sharing some grand insight. When others would post, I felt that I had to back up what I said, and would look for more information.

I don't think that either party did more wrong in this than the other. I think it was a perfect storm of miscommunication and misunderstanding mixed with some inflated expectations. I remember when the first post was made on the other thread. I thought "This should be good," as I knew that Jordan was such an important person in our community that many would come to defend him. Then Jordan posted, accepting full responsibility. I remember thinking, "This guy is the real deal!"

I don't want anyone to think that I was backing Tibor. As I mentioned before, I don't know anything about him. If he had treated me the way he treated Jordan, I probably would have told him to take a flying leap. I have never interacted with him in any way, and I would hope that posting this doesn't make him have ill will towards me.

I was backing Jordan, as unbelievable as that seems. I was backing the Jordan that stepped up without the typical BOI pressure. Jordan made the decision to pay in full, to offer more in trade than was needed,and to be the bigger man. I backed that Jordan, that we saw glimpses of in both threads. I know that many said he should just give Tibor what he had and be done. I agree with that, but there were multiple times when Jordan did not. I applaud that Jordan who felt that although he was wrong, he had made a statement (more than once) and was going to stand by it. He had another form of peer pressure. He had people telling him that going above and beyond was wrong. That he didn't owe anything. He didn't owe anything. I agree. Jordan didn't. Jordan saw a case where he had accepted responsibility to sell animals for someone. He would be giving Tibor money that he needed, and would go out of his way to make that happen. Others told him not to.

That Jordan that I supported, and continue to support ultimately lost. The court of public opinion is divided between those that think Jordan did the right thing, and those that think Jordan went against himself. I am not saying that Jordan did the wrong thing. I don't think Jordan did what he felt was right. I think his integrity did suffer here.

 

[D34532]

Interesting that you should make this point and then go into your next paragraph. In that other thread Jordan says that Tibor did try to plan a trip to go get the cages, but that Jordan was busy. Tibor could have been waiting for a call for Jordan to call him with a better time. After the threats, Jordan said he did not want Tibor at his house. Jordan was in a position where he had to deliver at that point. It was no longer on Tibor to pick them up, if it ever was.

I read that post that Jordan did state that. However my confusion to that was did Tibor call to confirm to confirm the day and time before going over? I might have missed it. There might have been misunderstanding both side at that time. I've waited for people to come over that said they would but they didn't which never lead to anything like this on my side and I always call people the day of to confirm and request the same so no one waste thier time on each other forgetting or something comming up and can't make it that day like work. I have had to cancel out of helping friends at shows and event because rush at work and overtime was required at that same days.. I've always called to let these friends know and told them to call me after said time if they need confirm time or date etc.

I assume you are talking directly to me on this one, since I am the one pulling the quotes from the other thread.

Nope not really was meant in general since there has been a few but I do think you might be the most recent but it was not directed to you.

That thread was not before"bad blood happen". Jordan said that he heard from a friend that Tibor had threatened him and that friend. That friend was not named. Jordan may be the most credible person on the planet, but Jordan did not hear the threats first hand. He posted that anonymous third party information.

Very true but what I have notice was not one of them has posted any screenshot of any of these email exchange. Don't know why that is that both hasn't posted any because easy and holding "ctrl" and pressing print screen button then going to paint and pasting the image and saving it as Jpeg and posting it here for us to read the said email the other said. Tibor did "type" said. I know they both know how to post image here because both has posted ads selling their animal.

Those threats were an issue in the first thread, but Jordan still agreed to pay cash just 2 weeks ago. He was praised for saying he would pay in the first thread, and then there was no contact until June, and that came from Tibor's side.

Again, none of us can speak for Tibor or Jordan. If someone has questions for either, then they can choose to answer, or not. Their answers, or lack of answers, will remain here for all to read.

Also very true Jordan did state that in his very first post that that first thread and was praised for that. Also in that first thread tibor quickly said he would give Jordan time and put the thread to rest because Jordan was in a bad place and he understood. Now I haven't gone back to read that thread over again and check dates but I do remember Tibor making statements that Jordan claim was "untrue and out right lies" in the 3rd or 4th pages give or take a page. So as far as I can tell they both say one thing and will do another thing base purely on what has been said in the thread. Again I like to say this has all been He said/ He said.

I don't know both and never done dealing with the two. I do feel kinda let down by both since I said earlier I wanted stock from both. I even contacted Tibor about what he had about 2 months ago. Then did research and find this 2 thread and another on Tibor. I did try to find other "questionable" tricks that Jordan has done that Tibor claims.

Truthfully I still don't have a side on this but what I have read so far is that (in no way a means of an attack) is sadden by how
Tibor:
handle the threads I find where he started or was written about him. The one written about him he wanted everyone to go away and said "oops my bad" or something along that line. The first thread it was quick to "attack" where people ask him to clear up or explain what he meant. I still don't understand what that was about.

Jordan:
I didn't like he over extended himself and waited to solve his fund and mess to solve tibor deal. Personally If I have an agreement with other they come first before my personal dealing. Also in no way do I mean that if I had consigned animal and had my own animals to sell. Mine sold but the consignors hasn't that the consignor gets the money from my animal. Wish he would have drop off the cages and stuff faster IE rent a UHaul and solve it sooner. I honestly want Tibor to post claims he made as proof said what Jordan did and told him. I honestly haven't found those claims others said that Jordan did.

 

[David Scarboro]

Unless and until Jordan wishes to come back and answer these questions this deal will be a warning to prospective buyers that Jordan may not honor his word. There are many things that we do not know here, but the one thing that is clear is that Jordan said he owed Tibor and promised to pay him. He didn't. It may never happen again but who's to say. He certainly did not stand up as a man of his word in this deal.

 

[Skiploder]

Frankly I'm still on the fence with Jordan. Too many people I know have done righteous business with him and he's done a lot for this hobby - perhaps more than any ten people I know. IF he took these animals at Tibor's request and IF he traded them at Tibor's request - these are a couple of big IFs that change the complexion of this deal.

But I'm not on the fence with Tibor. Despite a valiant attempt by Papp to smear Jordan with unsubstantiated rumors regarding the health of his collection and an alleged prior business failure - there is too much he said/she said drama here. Especially in the thread that preceded this one. There are details that they don't agree on that are key to this dispute...and a general underlining current of trying to get little digs in.

However, I also read Tibor's bad guy thread http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=320935. There's enough double talk and scumminess in that thread to cast a permanent shadow on Mr. Papp. Breaking your word, breaking a deal because a better one comes along and then getting cute with semantics and trying to wriggle out of it...enough said. I wouldn't trust anything he says without concrete proof.

 

[David Scarboro]

Frankly I'm still on the fence with Jordan. Too many people I know have done righteous business with him and he's done a lot for this hobby - perhaps more than any ten people I know. IF he took these animals at Tibor's request and IF he traded them at Tibor's request - these are a couple of big IFs that change the complexion of this deal.

But I'm not on the fence with Tibor. Despite a valiant attempt by Papp to smear Jordan with unsubstantiated rumors regarding the health of his collection and an alleged prior business failure - there is too much he said/she said drama here. Especially in the thread that preceded this one. There are details that they don't agree on that are key to this dispute...and a general underlining current of trying to get little digs in.

However, I also read Tibor's bad guy thread http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=320935. There's enough double talk and scumminess in that thread to cast a permanent shadow on Mr. Papp. Breaking your word, breaking a deal because a better one comes along and then getting cute with semantics and trying to wriggle out of it...enough said. I wouldn't trust anything he says without concrete proof.

Craig, I agree with about everything that you said. Jordan has a great name in this hobby and I hope that he continues to do so. I also have been very careful through out this saga to lay some blame with Tibor. I can't say who I would buy from as I do not buy animals anymore. I try to have nothing and instead spend my herp time in Habitat Restoration and photographs. I have had a long career herping and have been blessed to have seen some incredible things. You did use the term "breaking your word" in regards to Tibor. I do not think any reasonable person could say that Jordan didn't do the same. JMO

 

[D34532]

What is missing from your timeline is time. Time is important here, as there were lapses in communication. That is not to say that anyone was avoiding anyone, just that there were long periods without contact.

I left it out because in the first thread tibor said give jordan said time because jordan is in a bind and such

You are right. There is no way to know. Tibor admits to calling Jordan when animals were ready, but that Jordan initiated by asking if he had any available previously. If it matters who made the contact, in a he said she said scenario such as this, we might want to look at previous dealings between the 2 parties, and how they came to be. Tibor says that Jordan called him for animals in previous deals. Jordan did not contest that. I don't think it matters who initiated the sale/consignment.

There was said that tibor was hurting for money and was looking for people to help.

Yes, some sold and were paid for. Again, in previous sales animals were paid for as well, in cash. Jordan said he normally didn't do retail consignments, but made an exception this time. Were those previous deals cash sales? If the others were straight cash sales to be paid for later, why was this one a consignment? What is different if no money was paid up front?

Again from my understanding tibor was seeking help to raise fund so Jordan with help sell his snake. Wonder why that is that he might need help.

That is why I asked when the rosy boas were traded for. Tibor said he had no contact with Jordan between Feb and June. In the last thread there was mention of trades for geckos, and nothing about rosy boas. Did he OK that trade?

Again he said he said... no proof

I know you are against pulling quotes from the old thread, but can you point me to where Tibor refused a cash payment?

Huh I was never against it. There was a post that I don't have time at the moment and why my post been behind. I there there is a post where tibor refused cash and his approve trade like the cage/animal and just wanted all cash. Tibor deal breaker again?

...and if Jordan can prove that any of them are lies, that would be great. That part is more of the he said she said stuff that can't really be weighed. All we have to go on are the parts where both sides agree.

Huh why should or could jordon prove this and how is he going to prove stuff that didn't happen? Ie I claim you sent email and letter with personal attack and thread or that you had stolen abc item. Please prove that you didn't. Provide that we know each other and know like jordan and tibor..and I make the claim that you did that email and letters.

If tibor has email or know where these threads on the net. He can prove his claim... I find it hard for someone prove something they didn't do.

In what world does someone bad mouthing someone else relieve the other person of their duty to pay a debt? Would Tibor have his money now instead of rosy boas if he had never started that first thread?

I don't know why he did, but Jordan accepted the responsibility for the debt in that thread, and this thread. He then went back on that, in both threads.

Jordan said that inspite of the lies and stories, he would pay just to have Tibor out of his hair, not that he wouldn't honor his word because of them.

That second poster was followed by Jordan himself. The need for proof went out the window with this...

Sometimes when someone is hard to deal with you might not be able to honor you own word. Jordan said he is in hard times and doesn't have the funds or can't give what you don't have... what tibor wants is $3500 balance of the 5k consignment (jordan said he would try and rasie 2500 + cage for said 3500). Tibor breaking his deal for the cage and consignment animal trade. I'm taking the consignment animal at face value till more proof is provided.

Too many people jumping on jordan when he is trying to make tibor happy. Sorry tibor the cage are yours even if you no longer need them if you need that nad you could have worked out a way to get them.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Skiploder]

Craig, I agree with about everything that you said. Jordan has a great name in this hobby and I hope that he continues to do so. I also have been very careful through out this saga to lay some blame with Tibor. I can't say who I would buy from as I do not buy animals anymore. I try to have nothing and instead spend my herp time in Habitat Restoration and photographs. I have had a long career herping and have been blessed to have seen some incredible things. You did use the term "breaking your word" in regards to Tibor. I do not think any reasonable person could say that Jordan didn't do the same. JMO

Hi Dave -

Let ASSume the following (bear with me here):

a) Tibor asks Jordan to consign his boas.

b) When they don't move, Tibor OKs a trade for geckoes or rosys or whatever.

If a) and b) are true then Tibor needs to take his cages, his pair of Rosys and stop his bellyaching. He also needs to bone up on exactly what the definition of consignment is and, as evidenced in his bad guy thread - needs to honor deals he makes.

If I was forced at gunpoint to choose - based on past deeds, I'm inclined to believe Jordan. Based on that thread I linked to about Tibor, I'm even more inclined to believe Jordan.

Simple case in point - Tibor posts a stack of cages in the street accompanied by a forlorn and dusty box of rosys. The HEAVY and very deliberate implication is that Jordan just kicked the crap to the curb and drove off. Jordan's accounting is markedly different. The inference on Tibor's part is deliberate and intentional and several posters even go as far to think that everything was just dumped on the side of the road - which of course was his intent. That's a shrewd and calculated post Dave...and I am not buying what Tibor is selling. It's a cynical attempt to skew this whole thing in his favor, along with little jibes about Jordan's business fortunes.

It boils down to a) or b). All the rest of this is just a distraction. Did Tibor approach Jordan about the consignment and did Tibor give the OK to trade for something perhaps a but more marketable...that's all.

It would take a cynical piece of crap, a scum bag of the highest standing to approach a guy and ask to consign his snakes and then trade them off without permission. I don't think Jordan is that guy. Maybe he is - but I don't think so.

It also takes a cynical piece of crap to renege on deal when a better one comes along.. and then make excuse after excuse to explain away that low move. I know from that linked thread that Papp is THAT guy.

Some people see the world through rose colored glasses. After reading this thread and the other thread where Papp cowered out of a deal and then doggedly spun facts to cover his ass - I think Papp sees the world through a different set of eyewear.

 

[D34532]

I was backing Jordan, as unbelievable as that seems. I was backing the Jordan that stepped up without the typical BOI pressure. Jordan made the decision to pay in full, to offer more in trade than was needed,and to be the bigger man. I backed that Jordan, that we saw glimpses of in both threads. I know that many said he should just give Tibor what he had and be done. I agree with that, but there were multiple times when Jordan did not. I applaud that Jordan who felt that although he was wrong, he had made a statement (more than once) and was going to stand by it. He had another form of peer pressure. He had people telling him that going above and beyond was wrong. That he didn't owe anything. He didn't owe anything. I agree. Jordan didn't. Jordan saw a case where he had accepted responsibility to sell animals for someone. He would be giving Tibor money that he needed, and would go out of his way to make that happen. Others told him not to.

That Jordan that I supported, and continue to support ultimately lost. The court of public opinion is divided between those that think Jordan did the right thing, and those that think Jordan went against himself. I am not saying that Jordan did the wrong thing. I don't think Jordan did what he felt was right. I think his integrity did suffer here.

You claim you are/were backing/supporting Jordan However:

So your saying that if someone claimed you did and say things you didn't do. You should prove that you didn't do or said those thing? If someone you made a deal with and made agreement then demand more and change what the deal was to benefit them then you should still honor your agreement and pay them more then what was agreed too?

They both said consigned animal value $5000 = 1500(cash) + Cage ($800) + {trade/consigned animal $2700}. If Tibor didn't approval trade (need proof) then Jordan doesn't have consigned animal then $2700cash + cage is owed to Tibor for balance. Please explain your math that Tibor wants $3500 cash (balance) + $1500 cash (he said he got) = $5000 What is going to happen to said cage Tibor back out on his approved cage trade. You buying the cage?

Here is where I'm getting Tibor wanting $3500
Tibor 1st thread post #39 1/31/14

one other thing ..at my age I don't enjoy this..I feel like I 'm on trial..I always knew I was floating jordan and he would always come thru.
I willing to allow him till june 18th the one yr mark to be paid in full $3500 if this will help him...I did not put an X bad guy..because hes not..if this will help you..I can manage and rather not come here any longer,tibor

Honestly looking at both thread again Jordan said the trade was approved by Tibor in the first thread. Tibor said he didn't approve any trade only on this thread and at the few last post he made here when.


Below are quotes from Jordan and Tibor regarding agreeing or disagreeing to trade
From Jordan 1st thread post #29 1/29/14

The animals had been sitting without interest for a couple of months, and a few trade offers came through. The last time Tibor and I spoke was regarding the trade offers, which we agreed to accept.

From Tibor 1st thread post #47 2/1/14 Removed most of that post except for part of the trade info

I have an email from you saying all are gone..on a trade deal for geckos and once they are sold you would be in touch..or I could have them{geckos}...really I would never do that.
and as far as the ap cages you had carpet pythons in them and needed to move them before I could get them...never heard you from you!
there is no doupt.your are better @ selling animals since I do not text or use a cell phone.
.
.
.
so a long story with a broker flipper went wrong.
never give your animals away without being paid first!
can I change the button to a red flag is that possible @ this stage?
what more is to be argued..I have nothing else to say no reason to lie its all the truth.

Tibor claim he has an email from Jordan that he would never agree to said trade..... WHERE is this "email"?

 

[D34532]

The first part of Tibor post #47 I clip out first part because it doesn't talk about this agree/disagree trade. and the . . . went off topic from this trade talking for those that want to read the full post its was made in the 1st thread post #47

DaveyFig You claim to you were a Jordan supportor but NEVER ask Tibor to prove these Email and Claims he made.

 

[Ed Clark]

I do believe I owe him the apology of this deal going awry,

The moment I have the funds he will be paid in full.

Jordan

If a) and b) are true then Tibor needs to take his cages, his pair of Rosys and stop his bellyaching. He also needs to bone up on exactly what the definition of consignment is and, as evidenced in his bad guy thread - needs to honor deals he makes.

If I was forced at gunpoint to choose - based on past deeds, I'm inclined to believe Jordan. Based on that thread I linked to about Tibor, I'm even more inclined to believe Jordan.

Well Jordan where is that apology you say you owe Tibor?

Jordan needed to honor his deal when he stated that he would pay in full when he had the funds! did he do it? of course not he changed the deal once again to suit himself.

Jordan needed to honor deals he has made. he handled this deal with Tibor very badly. he not only lied to Tibor about paying him, he streched it out for well over a year.

 

[DaveyFig]

My statement about Jordan needing to prove that the the "stories and lies" were just that were in direct response to your statement that Tibor should prove his stories and lies. You had that end covered, so I didn't need to go into that. If either of them had proof, that would be good.

Tibor doesn't say he would never agree to trade for geckos, he said he would never take them himself instead of the money. When offered the geckos, he declined.

I don't care what the original deal was for, whether it was a sale or consignment. I don't care about the value either. None of that is agreed upon. However, Jordan agreed to pay multiple times. and had 5 months between last contact and this thread to make any form of payment.

No amount of my typing is going to help you understand that none of your last post is relevant. I am sorry if there is something that is keeping you from comprehending my posts, but I don't feel that I should have to explain everything I say. I try to make is as clear as possible for everyone when I post.

 

[Guy Castro]

:

My statement about Jordan needing to prove that the the "stories and lies" were just that were in direct response to your statement that Tibor should prove his stories and lies. You had that end covered, so I didn't need to go into that. If either of them had proof, that would be good.

Tibor doesn't say he would never agree to trade for geckos, he said he would never take them himself instead of the money. When offered the geckos, he declined.

I don't care what the original deal was for, whether it was a sale or consignment. I don't care about the value either. None of that is agreed upon. However, Jordan agreed to pay multiple times. and had 5 months between last contact and this thread to make any form of payment.

No amount of my typing is going to help you understand that none of your last post is relevant. I am sorry if there is something that is keeping you from comprehending my posts, but I don't feel that I should have to explain everything I say. I try to make is as clear as possible for everyone when I post.

:

 

[D34532]

My statement about Jordan needing to prove that the the "stories and lies" were just that were in direct response to your statement that Tibor should prove his stories and lies. You had that end covered, so I didn't need to go into that. If either of them had proof, that would be good.

Tibor doesn't say he would never agree to trade for geckos, he said he would never take them himself instead of the money. When offered the geckos, he declined.

I don't care what the original deal was for, whether it was a sale or consignment. I don't care about the value either. None of that is agreed upon. However, Jordan agreed to pay multiple times. and had 5 months between last contact and this thread to make any form of payment.

No amount of my typing is going to help you understand that none of your last post is relevant. I am sorry if there is something that is keeping you from comprehending my posts, but I don't feel that I should have to explain everything I say. I try to make is as clear as possible for everyone when I post.

Lol he said that now that he would never agree now and tibor never change the agreement of any deal and never broke his word.

Lol if valuation doesn't matter then debt has been paid case close tibor been paid.

 

[DaveyFig]

I have no idea what you said in your last post, but it seems like you are saying that since Tibor changed the agreement then Jordan can?

If that is what you mean, you are absolutely correct. Tibor came into this, and the other thread with a less than stellar reputation on the BOI. I don't think he lost anything by flip flopping. He could lie and tell stories all he wanted, as many had already decided not to believe him.
Jordan on the other hand is a pillar. Many people will blindly follow him because of the name he built, and rightly so. It does hurt him to flip flop. Although he was entitled to change his mind, it did effect the way several people perceive him.

Two wrongs do not make a right. In this case two wrongs makes one guy look more wrong than he already was, and puts a dent in another that was previously close to spotless. I am not going to talk in circles with you. Again, if you are having comprehension issues, it is not up to me to assist.

 

[sdcr1121]

Hey guys, the transaction has already been completed. Both commented on the fact that it had been completed. I'm sorta confused as to why people are still debating the situation. I don't think either of them need to come back and comment further either.

 

[D34532]

DaveyFig, you are mightly defensive and you are the only one apparent unable to read what I have typed. as I had stated in the past both should have proved more proof of these trade and such claims. How hard is it to understand that I had agreed that Jordan should pay what he should however both had agreed on the value of $5000 and you should go back where I put the value on the post I made because it came from both of them not what I can up with. You say Jordan should pay then how much do you think he should pay. Whatever Tibor said the numbers are?

So is the extra increase in money you take on Tibor is going to pay you?

Like I said before I still don't have a side however it is tibor that made the claims but hasn't backup any of it really.

your right both has completed their transaction. my only vested intesest was to get real proof to have better insight on both because since I wanted stock from both.

As far as I'm concern really done its that DaveyFig likes to attack people that doesn't agree with his view because of his hidden agenda.

My last statement. Tibor claim what he claim he should prove it keep deals you make. As far Jordan don't over extend yourself and make contacts that you can keep.

Another final note. I would like to have done business with both but doesn't look like that is going to happen. I don't know both however I might have ran into Jordan in the past because he worked at the local reptile store to me but this doesn't mean I'm on his side. (only found this out last night while searching for these jordan misdeed in the past) Hell if he would walk by me right now I wouldn't even know it was him since the guy that I thinking of there works there some 10 years ago and can't remember the face.

 

[DaveyFig]

I am not defensive. You questioned me about a sincere apology, because you don't understand my stance.I explained. I am finished explaining.
I don't believe I have attacked anyone. I have asked multiple times when the rosy boas were traded for though, and still haven't gotten an answer.
I have no hidden agenda, as I don't know either of them, and currently only keep 2 snakes. I think that Jordan paid exactly what he should have, but that he went back on his word to do so.

Tibor may have lied. He has no proof of his claims and we can assume he lied.

Jordan did lie. It is here. Intentional or not, a result of peer pressure or not, he promised to pay. It is all we have.

 

[DaveyFig]

DaveyFig, you are mightly defensive and you are the only one apparent unable to read what I have typed.

I hope it is apparent. I came right out and said, "I have no idea what you said in your last post."

Tibor claim what he claim he should prove it keep deals you make. As far Jordan don't over extend yourself and make contacts that you can keep.

Stuff like that is difficult to read.

 

[D34532]

DaveyFig, let me first state that I don't have anything against you. I don't care posting anymore about Jordan owe because honestly Jordan will never please Tibor even if he paid I wouldn't be surprised that tibor would demand more and he has and change his values/deals/mind too often.

I don't know you and don't know if you have hidden agenda or not but I'll believe you don't. I do believe some of the people that keep post Jordan owe Tibor money has hidden agenda.

Honestly Im only interested Jordan or Tibor made post of their claims, thread is closed for me unless otherwise. I have my own vested interest that I had already post a few times here.

 

[David Reid]

The deal is done.

I live by both of them, only know one, Jordan. I have seen several good guy threads about Jordan, know he is a good guy from our interactions, and from what I have heard about him and read about him.

I have not read, nor heard anything good about the other party.


Dave