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Bad Guy Underground Reptiles Stay away!!

Well it was addressed and explained by underground and Cory. Luckily it was made public that the IP address for Cory and underground was the same. So there doesn't seem to be much mystery there. Low life's ,low class trash. They're so shady that their name is underground reptiles! What more needs to be said. I mean it's almost comical. There may be good and bad reviews but given what transpired here how can anyone be certain the positives are actually authentic. And even so the good reviews are not so great that they cancel the negative. I find their business tactics despicable and the fact they they hide behind a bible and the owner is a pastor absolutely disgusting. For someone to conduct themselves personally and in business this manor, and then claim to be a follower of Christ to the point of having their own church and being senior pasture of said church... Well I can't find word to describe how reprehensible that is.
 
I deal with these guys at least once a month and buy alot of animals from them. I've of course had some misunderstandings, but nobody is perfect. They deal with a lot of WC animals and you need to understand the risk when purchasing them. I read a good portion of the posts at the beginning but don't have time to read 25 pages. If you buy geckos that are too small to sex, all you're asking for is for them to give their best guess. I personally would have refunded the purchase or sent new ones on my dime, but that's just me. Any problems I've had with these guys has been solved to both of our satisfaction. You can't please everybody, and that is clear by most of these posts on the BOI. Granted the majority are warranted and justified, at the end of the day, these guys deal with thousands of animals everyday, so a mishap like this shouldn't be all that shocking. They are importers/wholesalers folks, not mom n pop pet store.
 
I've dealt with Underground Reptiles once recently. The animals were supposed to be 3 females. I was asured they would be females. They were all males. Not to mention they were in bad condition. If I'm ever going to deal with them again. It will be in person and i will hand pick what i want. I will never let them pick or sex animals for me again.
 
Toby D. said:
I've dealt with Underground Reptiles once recently. The animals were supposed to be 3 females. I was asured they would be females. They were all males. Not to mention they were in bad condition. If I'm ever going to deal with them again. It will be in person and i will hand pick what i want. I will never let them pick or sex animals for me again.
Click to expand...

What species?
 
Underground mess

Toby D. said:
Red Iguanas. Well started individuals, the femoral pores are already showing the waxy secretions that only males have.
Click to expand...

If having look rough when you got them, sounds like they might have been crowded as well. At this age, with femoral pores showing, they'll need to be kept separate from one another to minimize stress and inevitable fights. I know you wanted females, but at least it's good to know that kept separately, they'll turn around fast.
 
They have turned around and seem to be doing fine. I'm well aware of the proper husbandry for them. I have several others, including some axanthic blue phase animals. Rest asure, these guys are in good hands. Underground asked me to ship them back, but I felt they would die if they went back there. So I decided I'd just keep them. I'll find some females down the road.
 
Underground mess

Toby D. said:
They have turned around and seem to be doing fine. I'm well aware of the proper husbandry for them. I have several others, including some axanthic blue phase animals. Rest asure, these guys are in good hands. Underground asked me to ship them back, but I felt they would die if they went back there. So I decided I'd just keep them. I'll find some females down the road.
Click to expand...

Glad you kept them.
 
Mel, I feel your pain,
Back in March of 2007 I bought a juvenile Parson's from Underground. I live in the Northeast and it was till pretty chilly up here at the time. They shipped it in a Styrofoam lined container with a heat pack attached to the OUTSIDE (???)of the box. When I opened the container the cham was very cold and lethargic. I put it in my cham room to warm up and started misting and drip hydrating it. The room, devoted entirely to my chams is kept at rooms temps from 70 to 80 degrees, and a minimum 50 to 70 % humidity, in addition to regular mistings. I emailed them of the situation and got an email back on March 27 saying that she was probably dehydrated from shipping and to keep them posted. They sent another email saying she was dehydrated from being an in "open air cage" and told advised to make up a hydration chamber. I did this as well. Unfortunately she died two days later. I called them and spoke to a Greg I believe. They blamed me for not hydrating her properly. After several similar accusations, the end result was that I was out $1800.
I have the two emails from Underground, with Gittman's name on them, but signed by a Greg. Unfortunately I have no way to show the phone conversations.
I have been keeping herps of all sorts for over 50 years now. I worked at the old Crandon Park Zoo in Miami in the 70's. My first pair of Parson's I had from 1995 through 2004 (9 years) and I had kept them in the same conditions, yet they accused me of killing her by not hydrating her properly. I could see how a chameleon could suffer from severe dehydration on a long trip from Madagascar, but not a properly cared for and healthy animal, over night from Florida, They killed her by not properly shipping her. Can anyone tell me what good a heat pack would do on the outside of an insulated container? Its going to keep out the heat as well as any cold temps.
Every time I see one of their ads I get sick. Google him and he has quite a reputation and record.
Beware and keep track of all your conversations through emails or texts. I can paste the two emails I do have if anybody asks and I can figure out how to do it.
One Hard and expensive lesson,
Kevin M
 
scosta56 said:
I would like to see the emails Kevin . Also are you just gonna walk away from 1800 dollars ?
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, the Civil Statute of Limitations, I am sure, has passed. This would prevent Kevin from being able to, legally, collect what should have been due.
 
Bad experience with Underground reptiles

Hi Samantha,
Here are the two emails I received from them

Underground reptiles


3/27/07
To: 'kevin missacc'

Kevin,
Thanks for letting us know. We placed the heat packs under the styro so she
wouldn't overheat in shipping. Spray her down very well and she should eat
for you right off the bat. Remember they are best kept at moderate temps
but moist (don't get her too hot).
Enjoy!

Greg
Underground Reptiles
954-428-8005
www.UndergroundReptiles.com

This one came two days later on the 29th:



Underground reptiles



3/29/07






To: 'kevin missacc'

Kevin,
She's probably dehydrated from the shipping and being in that open air cage.
Get a large plastic tub, drill numerous holes in the top of the lid, a few
holes in the bottom of the container. Place a few branches in the container
then place the container under a faucet and let the water run over the
container for at least an hour (room temp water, not warm not cold). That
will help "super" hydrate that animal. They all were eating and drinking
fine when we had them. She should come around with a round or two in the
"rain chamber".
Please keep us posted.

Greg
Underground Reptiles
954-428-8005
www.UndergroundReptiles.com

The rest of the communications were via phone line. On the phone I was getting the same type of responses I have seen here from other buyers. Denials, deflecting and trying to blame me, with feeble, meaningless suggestions to make good on the sale.
To answer your question about the money. It is obviously too late now. At the time, being 1300 miles away, I did not believe I had any choice unless I went to Florida and filed a claim against him there. I had been a police officer for 30 years and dealt with plenty of people who never took any responsibility for the actions. They could always convince themselves that it was somebody's else's fault.
SO now he is a pastor?

Here are a couple of Google searches I just did on him:



An interview with Rian Gittman, pastor, brown belt in jiu jitsu, and MMA coach:


“The Bible says that the gates of hell shall not prevail, the righteous taketh by violence. Prayer is violent. Christianity is violent. There’s nothing wrong with subduing your enemy. … Christ himself had to commit violence.” Rian Gittman.

He was interviewed by this guy, Doug Merlino ,who had this quote at the beginning of the article on the interview:
Doug Merlino :

"Win if you can, lose if you must, always cheat, and if you have to leave the ring, leave tearing it down." - Sputnik Monroe

This is the type of guy he associates with?

You have seen the research other members have done regarding his brushes with the law and less than ethical behavior.

If it walk like a duck and talks like a duck...........you can call it a pastor, but it is still a duck.

Kevin M
 
Here is my bad experience with Underground reptiles, a couple days ago I placed an order on a pied fat tailed gecko on their website, it showed the gecko was available when I placed my order, I paid with PayPal but next day they called and told me that someone bought it before I placed my order, but why the site was showing it is available when I placed the order? My guessing is maybe someone paid more so they sold it to that person.
I heard a lot of bad thing about this company, finally I experienced it by myself, now I believe all those bad comments about Underground Reptiles.
Ken
 
Tankster said:
Here is my bad experience with Underground reptiles, a couple days ago I placed an order on a pied fat tailed gecko on their website, it showed the gecko was available when I placed my order, I paid with PayPal but next day they called and told me that someone bought it before I placed my order, but why the site was showing it is available when I placed the order? My guessing is maybe someone paid more so they sold it to that person.
I heard a lot of bad thing about this company, finally I experienced it by myself, now I believe all those bad comments about Underground Reptiles.
Ken
Click to expand...

It is unlikely that their website stock is tied directly into their inventory system in real time.
If they refused to refund your money then you might have a complaint, but since you didn't mention anything about that I doubt it is the case. There are many reasons to post negative feedback for a seller, this isn't a very good one.
 
Dravorak said:
It is unlikely that their website stock is tied directly into their inventory system in real time.
If they refused to refund your money then you might have a complaint, but since you didn't mention anything about that I doubt it is the case. There are many reasons to post negative feedback for a seller, this isn't a very good one.
Click to expand...

Yes they refunded to me, but if their website stock is not tied into inventory system, then they shouldn't let people order it from their website. And before I placed my order the site said it is "available".
 
All websites tend to be a little out of date, some months or years, others just a few days. I never assume available really means available, while I can understand how frustrating this is, I believe it is industry wide.
 
That's why you call or email to ask if that specific animal is still available. Now if they said yes and sold it after you paid then that's worthy of a post.

Sent from my ASUS MeMO Pad 7 using Tapatalk
 
Elexis and Kevin are right (in posts #258 and #259 above). If you REALLY WANT something you see on a web site like that, you should call the seller involved on the phone and lock in the deal with a live person rather than just clicking "add to cart" and hoping for the best. Someone else might have done the same thing 30 seconds before you did it, and ended up with the animal you wanted because they were equally far ahead of you in hitting the "send payment" button. This is at least the second or third complaint about this same exact thing happening in the past ten or so days.
 
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