Bad Guy Nicholas P. Heistan CNH Reptiles

[chkadii]

I am sorry if my post came off as being rude, that was never the intention. I just wanted to point out that the seller did the refund then cut off communication.

I agree this is a horrible. The whole amount should be refunded. Non-refundable is only there so the seller does not loose any major amount of money. But if the seller is the one that can not finish the deal, then it the whole amount should be returned.


Ms. Craig and Mr. Zowak is there a possiblity we could move this thread back to the subject?

No worries, I didn't see it as rude at all. It'll take a lot more than that to get me riled!

I think I understand where we were mixed up now; on the 25th Nick stopped answering Shaun for "several hours" (from Shaun's post), which prompted Shaun to send the text in the third screen shot. That was when I believed Nick had been duck hunting. Then after Shaun requested the return, they started falling out and sometime after that point Nick both returned the $140 and blocked/ignored Shaun for a much longer period of time, which is what you're referring to.

Regardless of when he actually went hunting, better communication about his concerns over the fees could have saved this transaction. And really, the duck hunting is kind of irrelevant. The deciding factor that convinced me Nick should refund the $35 was when he said he shouldn't have to pay the fees - which took place before the request for a return and subsequent Paypal claim. Now that we have a screenshot of Nick's verbal abuse of Shaun, it's the final nail in the coffin. It's a shame, $35 seems like such a small hill to die on (man, my idioms are morbid tonight). There were plenty of opportunities throughout this situation where a little more (polite, or at least professional) communication could have prevented all of this.

 

[pwebyd90]

Ill have to figure out how to post the whole convo, it'll be like 35 screenshots.. The hunting thing was as follows: I sent him a message early in the morning saying I sent the final payment, and he responded shortly after.. We talked for a few minutes at that point, up until I requested a refund. Then about 3 hours later I sent him the message saying that the messages status was 'seen' and he chose not to respond, so I was going to escalate it. That's when he responded immediately that he was out hunting. 3 hours doesn't seem like a lot, but in an active conversation that's quite a bit of time, especially when the last message was promptly read by him, and it was regarding a refund

 

[tlmoon]

The seller's childish tantrum rant says it all. All of this over $5 in fees that the seller didn't like and then holding onto a deposit....good way to trash your own business. I would never want to do business with this seller. OP, I'm glad you posted so the community is aware of this seller.


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[Randy F]

This is crazy but not uncommon. People look at something that's right in front of them and lose sight of the big picture. Something as little as the fee's from $175 and you not only lost the sale, but your reputation. I just bought a snake from someone and they asked me to send friends and family, I just added the 3% fee's in his payment. I don't like paying fees either, but that's how they make their money to offer us the service. Now his attitude is just repulsive. I have been mad before and made irrational choice of words, but I have come back and made it right immediately. I never have nor would attack someone on a personal level. The buyer is wrong on every level here. And anyone attacking a buyer because of how much they spent is just ignorant and very low class.

 

[Bobby Douglass]

I realized I said this wrong, I was told he never said anything about charging you for the fees, that he needed to check his computer when he got home. My last comment for now.

It would appear your friend lied to you.

 

[ElexisC]

It would appear your friend lied to you.

And I was just relaying what I was told. If he lied, and the screen shots prove it then fine, btw he's not a friend, he's not even on my friends list. Just someone I knew of in some local groups and didn't seem to be the type to do wrong. I can admit when I'm wrong and have changed my stance on how I view people just by evidence being brought forth in a boi. I do not stand for shady business dealings and if that is what this is proving to be then he would no longer be someone I would ever want to deal with. It just seemed petty to me someone would throw a fit over $35. If he lied then he lied and I'll admit I'm wrong. I shouldn't have said what I did in the beginning. And for that offense I apologize. If he posts the whole conversation and it proves Nick was in the wrong and that he lied to me then that's it, game over.

 

[ElexisC]

Heres another screenshot with some time stamps

I have never seen him speak to someone like that. That's just wow.. and for what I said in the beginning I apologize. not going to make excuses for it, but I do apologize, shouldn't have said that and people have put me in my place for it.

 

[meowmeowkazoo]

How much the buyer paid for the snake or how long it took them to pay that amount is irrelevant, as is the amount that has not been refunded. If the OP could post screenshots of the payments made, to verify that it does in fact add up to the total amount owed on the animal, then there is really nothing more to be questioned.

 

[hhmoore]

The buyer is wrong on every level here.

How so?

As a side note-
The "gift, or 3%" crap is old...and nobody should encourage the practice by paying it. The fees are the seller's responsibility, period. It doesn't take much brainpower to factor them into price determination.

 

[pwebyd90]

If the OP could post screenshots of the payments made, to verify that it does in fact add up to the total amount owed on the animal, then there is really nothing more to be questioned.

Cropped the first pic to take out my address..

 

[hhmoore]

Just for the record, making multiple payments - especially small ones - can impact the amount of fees. It wouldn't, if the fee was a straight 3%; but it isn't, so it does. (Yes, I worded it that way on purpose)
The fee is actually 2.9% + $0.3.
On a purchase of $175, that comes out to be $5.38 (rounded up from 5.375)
Divided into the 4 payments listed, the fees would have totaled $6.28 (also rounded up).
The difference is $0.9, and is accounted for by the three additional payments of $0.3.
Less than a dollar, and not worth arguing about, IMO; but there IS a difference when making multiple small payments.

 

[Randy F]

How so?

As a side note-
The "gift, or 3%" crap is old...and nobody should encourage the practice by paying it. The fees are the seller's responsibility, period. It doesn't take much brainpower to factor them into price determination.

Oops that was supposed to be seller not buyer. Unfortunately I can not go edit it.

I only added it because it was a deal the guy was giving me so I felt it fair. I have sold snakes where the buyer refused to pay tax, so at that point it is up to the seller to take the monetary hit to make the sale or not. I just shipped someone 11 snakes and when packaging them decided to throw in 2 for free without him knowing. I see nothing wrong with the seller saying "yeah I will discount it x% if you pay the fees." We all have choices, but anything not favoring the buyer needs to be upfront.

 

[Mistyck]

And I was just relaying what I was told. If he lied, and the screen shots prove it then fine, btw he's not a friend, he's not even on my friends list. Just someone I knew of in some local groups and didn't seem to be the type to do wrong. I can admit when I'm wrong and have changed my stance on how I view people just by evidence being brought forth in a boi. I do not stand for shady business dealings and if that is what this is proving to be then he would no longer be someone I would ever want to deal with. It just seemed petty to me someone would throw a fit over $35. If he lied then he lied and I'll admit I'm wrong. I shouldn't have said what I did in the beginning. And for that offense I apologize. If he posts the whole conversation and it proves Nick was in the wrong and that he lied to me then that's it, game over.

Maybe instead of relaying what was told to you, you should have told him, "Come show/tell your side of things on the BOI, there is a thread started about you." And if he said "oh well this is the reason." then you could have still told him to come tell it here instead of being a relay board for him. Could have saved yourself some grief. Anyone can seem to be a person that wouldn't do wrong, but in reality will screw you out of your last dime or just be a totally bad person.

Why should it matter if it's "petty" to you for $35? People have been shown to jack others for far less in some instances. So it doesn't matter if it seems petty to you; to the OP it was worth warning others about.

You've made several great posts (in the BOI as a whole), but you always seem as though you're quick to jump the gun to defend the accused instead of waiting to see the evidence.

Just for the record, making multiple payments - especially small ones - can impact the amount of fees. It wouldn't, if the fee was a straight 3%; but it isn't, so it does. (Yes, I worded it that way on purpose)
The fee is actually 2.9% + $0.3.
On a purchase of $175, that comes out to be $5.38 (rounded up from 5.375)
Divided into the 4 payments listed, the fees would have totaled $6.28 (also rounded up).
The difference is $0.9, and is accounted for by the three additional payments of $0.3.
Less than a dollar, and not worth arguing about, IMO; but there IS a difference when making multiple small payments.

I agree, when one makes payments through paypal, the fees add up to greater than if it were one single payment.

Which is why the seller should have listed the snake for more if he wanted a certain amount to clear. It's all a numbers game with paypal. Just like if you sell on ebay, as a seller, you're going to have fees for ebay, paypal and when you add in the cost of shipping. That's why you have to price your product accordingly to make sure you clear what you want.

 

[meowmeowkazoo]

I'm not sure why the seller made a deal out of a little less than $6, tbh. I would ask for a refund if I were you as well, and he had no reason not to refund the deposit as well.

 

[John Capurso]

I do not know Nick but I notified him of this thread via PM on FB. Below is his reply.

 

[ElexisC]

If I recall correctly, you have in the past, both here and in other posts and forums, argued repeatedly that it is OK for sellers to ask the buyer to "send as friend or family" and/or to send money for goods and services "as friend or family" . That conduct is in fact "shady business" and is nothing short of theft of services.

Why do you not think it "petty" that someone wants to cheat a company out of a measly 3%. One would not only be "petty" by doing as you argued whats OK to do but one would also be a "petty" thief by doing just that.

Why is it "petty" for the buyer to want their $35 back but not "petty" for the seller to want to keep it? Putting aside that it violates pay pals TOS for a moment wouldnt you then think it was even more "petty" for the seller to want what amounts to an additional $6 to compete the sale? I would think that someone like yourself who in worse times was down to their last $22 (leaving out the fact that this $ was not yours to use in the first place) would have more respect and understanding regarding money. In my least paying job I would have to work around an hour to bring home that $35 but I do not want to work an hour for someone else to keep my money. Think of it this way. There are plenty of people that would have to put in 6 hours of work to bring home $35 (estimate based on minimum wage). Do you think it is "petty" now? Would you want to work almost a full day so that someone else got your take home pay?

Seriously leave me alone. Any time you get you have to bring up stuff from over a year ago. Move on with your life and let go of this vendetta you have against me. I will not reply to you again.

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[Lucille]

That conduct is in fact "shady business" and is nothing short of theft of services.

I agree. The fees Paypal charges go to pay their employees, which is how their employees feed their families.
Paypal has generously allowed an exception where if you are sending funds to friends or family, they forego their fees. Taking advantage of their generosity by using this exception in a business transaction is jerking them around, and is theft of services.

 

[Black Adder]

I agree. The fees Paypal charges go to pay their employees, which is how their employees feed their families.
Paypal has generously allowed an exception where if you are sending funds to friends or family, they forego their fees. Taking advantage of their generosity by using this exception in a business transaction is jerking them around, and is theft of services.

I know has been said previously but really the Paypal fees should be a no brainer to all sellers, they know its 3%(approx) so just add that into your price BEFORE you sell and nobody is upset at all.
I have had many sellers ask me to pay the fees and I always say no and actually then just move onto another seller. Ads I have seen plenty where they state "buyer pays all Paypal fees"...nope I just move right along from those as well!...those type of ads are much more common on that "other" reptiles for sale site...lol

 

[Elaine Elking]

This is Elaine and I take care of the financing for CNH Reptiles. I have read your Messenger/Facebook texts (screenshots of entire communication from original request for information about different snakes till your crazy responses and accusations in trying to resolve this matter) and I am Shocked!

FIRST If you really read the messages you will see that there was no attempt to escalate price. Nick said he needed to check the amount since there were fees out of the account and on a mobile phone it does not show all the transaction. He wanted to make sure the amounts before fees added to the $175. We do a lot of business via Paypal and are aware of the fees. It is part of the cost of doing business.Yours was not the only transaction, but yours held up funds in the account. That is why he needed to see it in entirety via a computer, not a mobile device.
Seriously, it is never wise to try and resolve issues via text messages when so many use abbreviations, partial sentences and you can not tell the inflection or tone:This is the reason so many things are misinterpreted. And he told you he was out hunting and didn't want his phone exposed. Where was your common sense, patience and decency?

SECOND Nick allowed you to make payments on a $175 purchase. He specifically says there is a 20% non refundable deposit. You agree to that.

THIRD: You said you would have paid off by 17th. You did not make final payment until 24th ( and Nick allowed you to go past your original timeframe with no penalty or extra charges) and then only a few hours later ( in the middle of the night too per Paypal ), you put in a dispute via Paypal for non shipment. You later claim you didn't know what else to put so again your lack of patience made matters worse.

FOURTH: All of that happened on a SUNDAY and the man was not at home. It is not his responsibility to wait by his phone to see if you had finally paid the amount in full. Again a week later than original agreement. You gave no indication in messages that you were making final payments but it appears you expected him to immediately respond to you.

FIFTH He explicitly tells you in messages he is not home and to please wait until he is able to get to a computer to see the full transaction. He again tells you he is not able to see the entire account via a mobile device. You then start to carry on that you are being scammed and ripped off. You immediately demand your refund. Once YOU put the matter into dispute with Paypal, YOU locked up the transactions and the funds.

Had you been a rational adult decent person and simply waited a few hours (AGAIN on a Sunday when Nick was not home and not able to check a computer) this would have been resolved and chances are we would have refunded the entire amount.

SIXTH You have been making threats to slander Nick and CNH Reptiles. I have all the screenshots, same as you and if you continue to rant and rave, I will move forward with charges. I will also post this email on all the sites where you try and ruin our reputation.

Suck it up sir. You made a simple situation into a hot mess and now this is the result. In the future, I would suggest you have some professional regard and class and take care of things like a man, not like a spoiled child.

I am truly sorry this could not be solved in an adult manner but we will not do business in the future to prevent this from ever happening again.

If you have ANY thing to say regarding the transaction refer it to me and I will pass it all along to our attorney. Other wise, please refrain from any further attempts to slander and hurt the business.

As far as I am concerned this matter is finally closed. I feel you should consider it closed also.

Regards,

Elaine Elking
Financing Officer
CNH Reptiles

 

[Black Adder]

Sorry, meant to say, just add in the 3% fees before you sell, IF you are that bothered by it. Pretty sure majority of sellers accept the fees as part and parcel of doing business and the convenience of using the PayPal service
I know I do!