Info LLLReptile should be closed down (BuyerBeware)

[juliasara]

William, if a store credit is the only way to get any money back without returning the snake, why not just take the store credit LLL offered and use it to buy another identical snake as someone else also suggested? You would then only be out the cost of the second shipping charge plus the vet expense (which you are going to be out anyway), but you would essentially be getting two of the snakes for the price of one. That isn't a bad deal for a $200 animal IMHO, plus if you don't want to keep two of the same snake, perhaps you can keep the one you like best (after they are both in good shape), and sell the other one of them privately for more than you paid and recoup some of your costs.

Also just to be clear, the vet bills are not part of what I mean when I say "your costs" above. Those bills are yours alone no matter what you do. By costs, I mean the $200 and the two shipping charges. Any amount you could get for the snake you sold could offset some or all of those amounts.

They said they would even add the shipping cost to the credit so he wouldn't even have to pay shipping if he bought another snake identical to the first one.

 

[MrTPlush]

I too am confused why the in store credit has not been taken. It is after all what he is entitled to according to the TOS service supposably...actually probably more since he won't send the snake back. If the credit was taken that would nearly offset his vet bill and then mite treatment would be paid for too. What does that leave him with? The snake and its shipping cost...but he would have a healthy snake just like he expected for the price he originally paid. Sounds like a perfect ending, no?

I get in store credit isn't the same as a cash refund, but I am sure you will spend $200 for your reptiles and could get it at LLL. Heck maybe they have an animal you want. After that you could just stop buying from them if you so choose.

Honestly sounds like you were offered a solid resolution.

 

[sidewinder107]

William, if a store credit is the only way to get any money back without returning the snake, why not just take the store credit LLL offered and use it to buy another identical snake as someone else also suggested? You would then only be out the cost of the second shipping charge plus the vet expense (which you are going to be out anyway), but you would essentially be getting two of the snakes for the price of one. That isn't a bad deal for a $200 animal IMHO, plus if you don't want to keep two of the same snake, perhaps you can keep the one you like best (after they are both in good shape), and sell the other one of them privately for more than you paid and recoup some of your costs.

Also just to be clear, the vet bills are not part of what I mean when I say "your costs" above. Those bills are yours alone no matter what you do. By costs, I mean the $200 and the two shipping charges. Any amount you could get for the snake you sold could offset some or all of those amounts.

I can not buy another identical one, they do not have another one.

 

[MrTPlush]

I can not buy another identical one, they do not have another one.

You could always wait? I'm sure they will have another in the near future. If not did you ask them if you could get something else free of shipping? Maybe they would be ok with that if they don't plan on get that specific one in for a long time.

 

[sidewinder107]

You could always wait? I'm sure they will have another in the near future. If not did you ask them if you could get something else free of shipping? Maybe they would be ok with that if they don't plan on get that specific one in for a long time.

I did offer that in one of my emails that I would take another healthy animal of my choosing. But I guess they did not like that idea. For I did not get that offer, but I should have been more clear on making them that offer within the same price range of course. I am not sure why I have let this get as far as it has. But there is one thing for sure when someone or business sends me a sick animal the first time ordering a animal from them it sure does leave a bad taste in my mouth that's for sure. I will admit that for sure. And if they come through on their end I will feel a lot better about the situation.I just fill from my first email to the last I had to be really pushy to get that in store credit.

 

[chkadii]

I here what you are saying but where does it state in that contract the animal will (not) be healthy. Guaranteed healthy it says.That contract was broke the moment they sent me the animal was it not??

Do you expect that a broken contract means total anarchy moving forward?

Yes, they guarantee a healthy animal. It wasn't healthy, so you can either ship it back for a full refund or take store credit as compensation.

If you take the store credit, it mostly covers the vet bill you posted and once treatment is complete you'll have a healthy snake as you paid for. Yes, you're out some time and a little bit of money, but that's always a risk with live animals.

Alternatively, you could ship the animal back for a full refund. The vet bill is not their responsibility because they are willing to treat the snake through their own vets. Here's why: if their vet can diagnose mouth rot without a radiograph, why should they pay your vet for additional, unneeded services? You want the best for the snake, and that's good of you, but sometimes that means paying extra for peace of mind. Sellers aren't obligated to compensate for buyer's whims or the competence of every vet in the country. (I'm not saying your vet is wrong or that you were wrong to take the snake, I'm just using extreme examples to explain why vet bills are not a part of their policy. For every reasonable customer there is one that is unreasonable.)

LLL Reptile's contract states no cash refunds, and it also states they expect any refunds to be healthy animals. Presumably you read those terms, and you agreed to them by making a purchase. When you agreed to their terms about receiving a healthy snake, you also agreed to their terms in place for when animals do not arrive as expected. Terms are not developed as a fancy promise that reptiles will be perfect. Many things can go wrong at different points of the transaction. Terms describe what will happen when transactions go wrong. If you would pay for vet care for any animal you sell, put that in your terms and I'm sure you'd have a line of customers out the door. For your personal satisfaction, read terms moving forward and judge them based on how they'll respond to the worst case scenario. If LLL is inadequate to you, you would have known that was a possibility before the snake was ever shipped. That makes it a gamble you willingly took.

While they "broke the contract" by sending you a snake with mouth rot, they are also allowing you to "break contract" by sending the snake back with mouth rot. It's an established adult, if it's shipped soon it will not miss the next treatment, and they have knowledgeable vets ready to continue treatment. Is it ideal to ship him? No, but it is a reasonable solution to the issue if you don't want to incur anymore vet fees.

I'm sorry the offers aren't exactly what you want, but the company is absolutely compromising for you. They're not scamming you, they're not avoiding you, and they're not running a smear campaign about you. Those are things bad businesses do. If their compromises aren't enough for you, decide whether or not you'll accept one of their offers (or refuse all offers in protest) and don't buy from them again. It's as simple as that.

You've shared your experience, it's permanent, and now everyone who reads it can judge for themselves. Those that hold sellers to higher standards will also avoid LLL, and those who think they did right by you will consider them for future purchases. What more do you want out of the BOI at this point?

Sent from my SM-G928V using Tapatalk

 

[MrTPlush]

Or keep the animal and in store credit of the vet bill and some mite treatment

I just went back and found this quote.

They nearly offered you this did they not? My understanding is the animal was worth $200 and your vet bill was $225. So by refunding the snake as in store credit they have basically refunded the vet bill. You could view it as refunding the vet bill in your eyes.

Please tell me you aren't fighting over something like $25 at this point. That is the kind of thing that will scare off sellers. I am just lost why this wasn't resolved before coming here.

 

[bcr229]

You could always wait? I'm sure they will have another in the near future. If not did you ask them if you could get something else free of shipping? Maybe they would be ok with that if they don't plan on get that specific one in for a long time.

Probably not, pure locality boas like a Bolivian amarali typically aren't offered for sale often by the big (re)sellers, they are in demand enough that breeders have no need to wholesale them. I'm was surprised to see he purchased one from LLL until I read the backstory.

Right now on Kingsnake there is only one being advertised for sale, and that's by LLL, so I'm guessing that they haven't updated their ad yet. Ads for them here on Fauna are old enough that I suspect the animals have been sold. Same goes for the Facebook forums for reptile classifieds.

 

[Big Borg Reptiles]

The vet bill is not their responsibility because they are willing to treat the snake through their own vets. Here's why: if their vet can diagnose mouth rot without a radiograph, why should they pay your vet for additional, unneeded services?

Here's something I meant to mention earlier but forgot out of frustration.

Do you know WHY people don't cover vet bills? Because most vets out there have absolutely no clue what they're doing when it comes to reptiles. They deal with cats and dogs all day long and see a snake maybe once a month.

Do you know how I know YOUR vet has no clue about reptiles? He/she did a radiograph (x-ray) on a snake that has mouth rot. Why on earth would they need to do an x-ray to confirm something you can see with the naked eye?

I bought a snake a while ago that had something going on with its mouth and I took it to a well-known reptile specialist vet here in FL. In two seconds he told me exactly what was going on without doing any x-rays or extra procedures. He mentioned that he COULD do x-rays and blood work if I wanted to spend more money but that it was completely unnecessary.

So why should LLL have to pay more because you took the animal to a vet who has no idea what they're doing? I've had vets look at snakes and tell me things that weren't even possible. That's why if you decide to take the snake to an amateur reptile vet you can take care of the bill.

 

[WebSlave]

I understand what you are saying fully. Return the animal get money back but did you read this small detail? And the animal is not in a condition to ship back.

If for any reason you would like to return your animal - you are responsible not only for shipping, but for the animal to arrive back to us alive and healthy. You must ship the animal back overnight, and pack it properly just like we did when it arrived to you. Shipping materials can be found here and you can watch how to pack and ship a reptile video here. You can use shipyourreptiles.com to print a UPS shipping label and safely ship your animals as well. If the animal does not arrive back to us in good condition, our guarantee is completely void

Now you tell me this. The animal is not in a condition to ship back and it arrived to them DOA what then??? Would they still make it right??? would you take that risk?? And have them to tell me it is my fault?? I never demanded them to pay the vet bills if you noticed in my email. I said they should since this is one of those rare situations as they so want to put it.That 99.9% of their customers are happy. I guess I get to be the 1% that just deals with it and move on. But did you see that snake's head? they said it was hissing and striking going into the bag.How in the world did they miss that snake's head looking like that if it was hissing and striking while going into that bag? Last one of my snakes that was hissing and striking I got a very good look at its head. And there was no blood in that bag anywhere. And if the employees don't know the difference from a healthy snake and a sick snake they don't need to be packing them to begin with they need to be sweeping floors or cleaning cages.

Looking back at your earlier posts you stated this about the condition of the animal when you received it:

something going on with his mouth

Then later on you said you found mites on it.

Sorry, but no, those are NOT life threatening conditions for that boa, and shipping it back would not have been any more or less dangerous for the animal than had it not had those noted issues. I would even say MINOR issues based on your initial claim of just "something going on with his mouth", because the implies to me that even you did not think it was a very serious issue by your own statement. It appears that you just decided to make a mountain out of a molehill and are now just pissed off that NO ONE here agrees with your stance when you were apparently expecting to drum up a witch hunt to burn LLL at the stake.

Personally, I believe you are just grasping at vague and self fulfilling reasons just to support what appears to be bad decisions and missteps on your part from the beginning. If you were unhappy with the animal when you first inspected it, you should have contacted LLL about what to do to make things right and then FOLLOWED their lead about how to try to make this right. Instead, no, you just went off half cocked and shot yourself in the foot and want to blame everyone else for the bullet hole.

Just like you came here apparently looking for opinions and then choose to completely ignore the unanimous disagreement with your own.

Just get on the damn phone and talk to LLL to get this worked out and stop acting like some kind of spoiled brat with a splinter in his finger angling to get sympathy and presents because of the little boo-boo that hurt a little bit. Sorry about that but your attitude it wearing on my nerves.

 

[WebSlave]

I am just wondering how many of you people in here are Selling to LLLreptile? There is a lot of people in here quick to take their side.

Just for the record, LLL Reptile has been a member here since December of 2004. In the 11 years since then, as best I can tell, they have never spent a single dime in advertising, memberships, or purchased anything from me when I bred my own reptiles. Matter of fact, I believe Scott has publicly claimed that he really does not like this site, and the BOI in particular. I really have no reason to take to his defense because of any claimed "purchased loyalty".

So the point of all this is that it does not matter WHO you did business with in this transaction, it is how YOU are handling your end of it that is the problem everyone seems to see but you. No one is particularly defending LLL, they would be defending ANY company against YOUR claims and actions.

So instead of wrapping the paranoid version of the world around you to shut out the light of reason, why don't you just get a grip on yourself and really start paying attention to what people are telling you and stop wasting everyone's time with your feeble groping for excuses about why your perspective HAS to be the correct one.

You REALLY don't get it, do you?

 

[sidewinder107]

Do you expect that a broken contract means total anarchy moving forward?

Yes, they guarantee a healthy animal. It wasn't healthy, so you can either ship it back for a full refund or take store credit as compensation.

If you take the store credit, it mostly covers the vet bill you posted and once treatment is complete you'll have a healthy snake as you paid for. Yes, you're out some time and a little bit of money, but that's always a risk with live animals.

Alternatively, you could ship the animal back for a full refund. The vet bill is not their responsibility because they are willing to treat the snake through their own vets. Here's why: if their vet can diagnose mouth rot without a radiograph, why should they pay your vet for additional, unneeded services? You want the best for the snake, and that's good of you, but sometimes that means paying extra for peace of mind. Sellers aren't obligated to compensate for buyer's whims or the competence of every vet in the country. (I'm not saying your vet is wrong or that you were wrong to take the snake, I'm just using extreme examples to explain why vet bills are not a part of their policy. For every reasonable customer there is one that is unreasonable.)

LLL Reptile's contract states no cash refunds, and it also states they expect any refunds to be healthy animals. Presumably you read those terms, and you agreed to them by making a purchase. When you agreed to their terms about receiving a healthy snake, you also agreed to their terms in place for when animals do not arrive as expected. Terms are not developed as a fancy promise that reptiles will be perfect. Many things can go wrong at different points of the transaction. Terms describe what will happen when transactions go wrong. If you would pay for vet care for any animal you sell, put that in your terms and I'm sure you'd have a line of customers out the door. For your personal satisfaction, read terms moving forward and judge them based on how they'll respond to the worst case scenario. If LLL is inadequate to you, you would have known that was a possibility before the snake was ever shipped. That makes it a gamble you willingly took.

While they "broke the contract" by sending you a snake with mouth rot, they are also allowing you to "break contract" by sending the snake back with mouth rot. It's an established adult, if it's shipped soon it will not miss the next treatment, and they have knowledgeable vets ready to continue treatment. Is it ideal to ship him? No, but it is a reasonable solution to the issue if you don't want to incur anymore vet fees.

I'm sorry the offers aren't exactly what you want, but the company is absolutely compromising for you. They're not scamming you, they're not avoiding you, and they're not running a smear campaign about you. Those are things bad businesses do. If their compromises aren't enough for you, decide whether or not you'll accept one of their offers (or refuse all offers in protest) and don't buy from them again. It's as simple as that.

You've shared your experience, it's permanent, and now everyone who reads it can judge for themselves. Those that hold sellers to higher standards will also avoid LLL, and those who think they did right by you will consider them for future purchases. What more do you want out of the BOI at this point?

Sent from my SM-G928V using Tapatalk

I Agree with you 100%. what I do not agree with was people saying I was being unreasonable. For the offers I made for a satisfied situation. I said i would be satisfied with a refund of the cost of the animal plus some mite treatment, or this vet bill paid for by your company, or in (store credit for the cost of the vet bill and some mite treatment for him). In this email it may sound unreasonable to some. But it is cheaper than the in store credit of the animal and shipping and might treatment they are offering me in my last email. Am I not right?? And I never demanded this stuff I throw up offers and they was only offering 2 options. send it back for a full refund or 199.99 store credit and some mite treatment. Yes if the animal in question dies I am out my vet bill no big deal I did my part for him.But I would still have the in store credit to buy another animal if he passed am I not right and if he don't die I would still have the in store credit. For my troubles and there mistake of sending me that snake in the first place is this not reasonable?? See guys I live on the east coast and they are on the west coast I did not get their email till after I took the animal to the vet. Yes I know their Policy but I did not want the animal in question to pass suddenly either he looked pretty rough when he got here. Not counting the stress from shipping. I wanted this animal in question and him only not some other animal breed they have available.

 

[Lucille]

I did not get their email till after I took the animal to the vet. Yes I know their Policy

I have
10 more snake's...Matter of fact my last
few orders have been from your company
>

Still grasping at straws. You did not need their email, NO ONE signs a blank check for vet bills. And you've purchased snakes before, it isn't like you are clueless, despite your demands.
Want a refund? Send the snake back.

 

[sidewinder107]

Still grasping at straws. You did not need their email, NO ONE signs a blank check for vet bills. And you've purchased snakes before, it isn't like you are clueless, despite your demands.
Want a refund? Send the snake back.

did you not read all 3 of the offers I made in that one email???

 

[CwnAnnwn]

did you not read all 3 of the offers I made in that one email???

I am sure that everyone has read your emails.

And no one agrees with you.

You get to choose one of the following.

1.) You keep the animal, get store credit for the cost of the animal, cost of shipping, and mite treatment.

2.) You return the animal and get a full cash refund.

You understand that is the choices you have. You have to pick one or the other.

What is not possible.
1.)You get your vet billed paid in any way.
2.) You get cash and keep the animal


All this over a pet snake. It is a pet snake, it is a money hole. (nothing wrong with pet snakes, just saying that he is out money for 20 years anyway) Honestly. It is not like you are going to be able to breed it or anything.

 

[sidewinder107]

I am sure that everyone has read your emails.

And no one agrees with you.

You get to choose one of the following.

1.) You keep the animal, get store credit for the cost of the animal, cost of shipping, and mite treatment.

2.) You return the animal and get a full cash refund.

You understand that is the choices you have. You have to pick one or the other.

What is not possible.
1.)You get your vet billed paid in any way.
2.) You get cash and keep the animal


All this over a pet snake. It is a pet snake, it is a money hole. (nothing wrong with pet snakes, just saying that he is out money for 20 years anyway) Honestly. It is not like you are going to be able to breed it or anything.

There is 3 offers right here not one

I said I would be satisfied with a refund of the cost of the animal plus some mite treatment, or this vet bill paid for by your company, or in (store credit for the cost of the vet bill and some mite treatment for him).

there is 3 different offers right here not one whole offer.

 

[CwnAnnwn]

Let me clarify breed it. You can not breed it and sell the babies as Boa c. amarali. You have zero proof that it is amarali. It could be a hybrid crossed 40 times by now. And given that amarali is rare in most collections, it doubt it is pure amarali, or can be proved to be. The colouring of amarali is pretty cool, but nothing special. So if you breed it, you will be stuck selling the babies to local pet stores and lllreptile. You could use it to cross breed to other morphs. But I don't know what the outcome of that will be.

And since the last thing we need is people selling locationally boas and species boas with out knowing if there was a hybrid cross in the background. It is really not worth the trouble.

I should have said you could not breed it, I should have said, I would not recommend breeding it.

 

[BeauBoi]

There is 3 offers right here not one

I said I would be satisfied with a refund of the cost of the animal plus some mite treatment, or this vet bill paid for by your company, or in (store credit for the cost of the vet bill and some mite treatment for him).

there is 3 different offers right here not one whole offer.

And which part of, "Those offers are not on the table.", do you not understand?
just because that is what you WANT, doesn't mean that is what they have to give you!

YOU ~no one else!~ YOU AGREED TO THE TOS!

D.E.A.L. W.I.T.H. R.E.A.L.I.T.Y.

~Beau

 

[CwnAnnwn]

There is 3 offers right here not one

I said I would be satisfied with a refund of the cost of the animal plus some mite treatment, or this vet bill paid for by your company, or in (store credit for the cost of the vet bill and some mite treatment for him).

there is 3 different offers right here not one whole offer.

They offered you a refund, in store credit for the animal, shipping, and mite treatment.

What you will not get is vet bill or cash with out returning the animal. That is unreasonable.

Read this please.

It is unreasonable for you to get the vet bill paid by lllreptile. It is also unreasonable for you to get a cash refund with out returning the animals. That is not on the table. Stop asking for it.

 

[Lucille]

Part of the problem is that the OP changes his demands. First he says that he would accept store credit plus mite medication, and when they agreed, he started pushing for more. Dealing with him is like trying to pick up a bead of mercury.

I did offer that I
would be satisfied with in store credit in a previous email in which I was
willing to except, but the more I think about that offer, it really should not
even be an option considering the situation at hand and your response.

All they are offering is in store credit. The right thing to do would be to either pay the vet bills or give me my money back that I paid for the snake. Not in store credit. That's what I am saying.