Bad Guy Sellers Beware of John Franco!

[nickolasanastasiou]

Even in the money is all sent at once I completely agree with this. Part of the payment is always considered non-refundable in the case of buyer's remorse or some other unforeseen circumstance, just to prevent seller's from wasting their time and holding an animal for nothing. In this case however I don't think a deposit applies, the animal was misrepresented in my opinion.

I disagree based on the ad. However, during the discussion, clarity through repetition would have helped both parties out (a lot).

 

[Big Borg Reptiles]

However, during the discussion, clarity through repetition would have helped both parties out (a lot).

I completely agree, that's why I say it's my opinion that it was misrepresented. It was undoubtedly in the ad but I really try to make things like that as overt as possible.

I personally make a completely separate paragraph in cases like this to stress the fact that I can't guarantee the sex but am very confident, and reinstate that fact if anyone inquires about them. If that had happened I think we both agree that this situation would probably not even have occurred.

 

[Big Borg Reptiles]

But that being the case, that the certainty of the sex of the animal WASN'T stressed, I think it's best to just chalk up the deposit and be more obvious next time. I just wouldn't want to deal with the headache if it were me.

 

[nickolasanastasiou]

I completely agree, that's why I say it's my opinion that it was misrepresented. It was undoubtedly in the ad but I really try to make things like that as overt as possible.

I personally make a completely separate paragraph in cases like this to stress the fact that I can't guarantee the sex but am very confident, and reinstate that fact if anyone inquires about them. If that had happened I think we both agree that this situation would probably not even have occurred.

I think misrepresentation is too strong a claim here thanks to the ad. Further, unless it is actually a male, either possible female or outright female is technically correct, but the latter has not been determined yet (and so should not be stated because its correctness is currently unknown) and the former was stated in the beginning via the ad. I suspect the buyer overlooked it in excitement.

The conversation was highly suggestive with the usage of feminine descriptors up to the point of dispute, however, and that is why I added my little bit in post number six. A similar approach to one you might take for security and clarity. A few words here and there to hopefully save some stess.

 

[Big Borg Reptiles]

I think misrepresentation is too strong a claim here thanks to the ad. I suspect the buyer overlooked it in excitement.

You're right, I'm being a little abrupt, I think I'm using it in place of a better word that is currently escaping me. Technically the seller has every right to keep the deposit, I think in this instance it might be easier to say that maybe there was a misunderstanding and move on with a refund though.

 

[nickolasanastasiou]

As previously mentioned, I also think that refunding is on the wiser side of right and wrong when it comes to this situation.

 

[Fangthane]

I'm just never a fan of the idea of leaving someone with absolutely nothing to show for their money. If the seller is so eager to hide behind TOS, I suppose she can keep the deposit. Should she? I can't really think of many situations where I'd answer 'yes' to that question. I couldn't see myself wanting to be that vengeful toward a buyer that wasn't attempting some sort of outright fraud.

The more I see such situations, the more ambivalent I become about the whole idea of TOS that a seller would use to justify keeping someone's money. Some people seem to want so badly to play at being professionals - not that professionalism is a bad thing - and completely forget about simple right and wrong. In my eyes, taking any amount of money for a product that wasn't sent is just not right.

Countless people waste any given seller's time with questions and picture requests that ultimately lead to nothing, yet those who are at least serious enough to send money are the only ones who get punished in any tangible way. Something about the whole idea just seems ass-backwards to me.

 

[nickolasanastasiou]

Opportunity cost is very real, but it is also very difficult to judge in some contexts.

There are also some people who think sellers are mini-banks of no consequence.

Those factors (and others like time, which also may have a cost) tend to drive the idea of the nonrefundable deposit.

I have never personally kept a deposit for a reneged deal despite having it in my terms, but instead chose to "implement consequence" via other means. Typically by denying future business and/or allowing my network to learn of the person and context. Plenty of people do not get what they want in the future because they have played games with sellers in the past.

 

[Kristi23]

I'm just never a fan of the idea of leaving someone with absolutely nothing to show for their money. If the seller is so eager to hide behind TOS, I suppose she can keep the deposit. Should she? I can't really think of many situations where I'd answer 'yes' to that question. I couldn't see myself wanting to be that vengeful toward a buyer that wasn't attempting some sort of outright fraud.

The more I see such situations, the more ambivalent I become about the whole idea of TOS that a seller would use to justify keeping someone's money. Some people seem to want so badly to play at being professionals - not that professionalism is a bad thing - and completely forget about simple right and wrong. In my eyes, taking any amount of money for a product that wasn't sent is just not right.

Countless people waste any given seller's time with questions and picture requests that ultimately lead to nothing, yet those who are at least serious enough to send money are the only ones who get punished in any tangible way. Something about the whole idea just seems ass-backwards to me.

Each situation is different. In this case, I would refund the full amount and be done with it because it isn't totally the buyers fault. Even though the ad said poss female, the seller refers to it as female often.

But as for non refundable deposits. I've had one person who had animals on a payment plan. They stretched them out for over a year before I finally said enough (wasn't making payments when he said and had issues setting up shipping). I refunded everything except the deposit. I would have easily sold those animals I was feeding for a year. Recently I had someone cancel a sale after a couple weeks. I did refund the deposit on that one. If it's short term, I review it on a case by case basis, but a seller shouldn't be out sales for a buyer who changes their mind.

Again, OP, I would just refund the money. It will make you look better in the eyes of other potential buyers. You used the word "she" enough to make it sound like it was definitely female. When I'm selling a tsf, I usually say "she" in quotes or "she?" with the question mark to avoid confusion (along with the ad that states tsf and possible female).

 

[JButera]

Pfft..these sellers that treat their TOS like it's upper management and then pretend they're just some powerless employee, give me a break. Hope the buyer gets back every penny.

 

[zovick]

In post #13 the seller has a screen shot of what she says is the "original ad". I read that ad three times, and the animal is never described as being anything other than a female. The word "probable" is never used in that ad. It was included in the second ad, but if the buyer thought he had bought what was described in the first ad and therefore never even looked at the second ad, he was misled by the first ad.

Give him back his entire payment and sell your animal to someone else.

 

[zovick]

In post #13 the seller has a screen shot of what she says is the "original ad". I read that ad three times, and the animal is never described as being anything other than a female. The word "probable" is never used in that ad. It was included in the second ad, but if the buyer thought he had bought what was described in the first ad and therefore never even looked at the second ad, he was misled by the first ad.

Give him back his entire payment and sell your animal to someone else.

Just read the ad again, and I did see the word "poss" so I guess both the buyer and I missed it! Sorry for the confusion.

If it were me, I would still refund his entire payment, though. You should consider whether it really is going to be so hard to sell that animal to another person that you need to get embroiled in this messy controversy which really is doing you more harm than it is the buyer IMHO?

 

[JimM]

Misunderstanding on the sex of the animal. A refund is the thing to do. You should have cut this off in the beginning when he started to beat you down on the price.

 

[Black Adder]

Misunderstanding on the sex of the animal. A refund is the thing to do. You should have cut this off in the beginning when he started to beat you down on the price.

On that note I whole heartedly agree
Been there, done that and yes it ended badly but I just gave full refund and walked away a little sadder but a lot wiser.
I accept a little haggle on price but more than that and it rings little alarm bells now and prudence is the best course thereon out.

Unfortunate but op should have just given full refund especially as it was over such a short timeline, they still had the critter so not out cost of shipping, maybe a meal or two and yes possibly turned down other potential buyers ( although that I somewhat doubt as they were so eager to sell even to somebody repeatedly trying to beat the price down).

Fresh ad CLEARLY stating it is a possible female and not referencing she & her in the ad and just start over.

Your reputation which is very hard fought and earned in this hobby is not worth $300......

 

[AaronSerio]

What does the TOS say about sex?

I have a TOS. Everyone does. To ensure people read it, when they send a deposit I send back a thank you e-mail with my TOS attached and direct them to read it.

I do have the non-refundable portion in my TOS but I usually send the money if need be. It isn't worth it being known as a difficult seller.

 

[MrTPlush]

I don't see the issue some of you have with the buyer haggling on the price. Why can't he try for a better price? The ad states it is best offer and he even sounds like he is begging for offers. Sounds like he was willing to pay $650, but wanted to see if he could knock it down anymore, but didn't want to risk losing the snake so quickly came up. I don't see any red flag about that...seems typical.

I just don't see a reason for holding the money hostage like he hurt you in some way. From start to finish this whole ordeal was, what, maybe a week? What harm was done that you feel like he owes you $150? Just because it is in your TOS? Not to mention to some degree you were misleading. That will scare away potential buyers. It just sounds like you are trying to make a quick buck off of him. Even scarier was you didn't offer back the second payment right away. You had no right to that money and no claim should be needed for that.

 

[MrTPlush]

What does the TOS say about sex?

I have a TOS. Everyone does. To ensure people read it, when they send a deposit I send back a thank you e-mail with my TOS attached and direct them to read it.

I do have the non-refundable portion in my TOS but I usually send the money if need be. It isn't worth it being known as a difficult seller.

You send a TOS after payment? If hope it is available prior to purchase too.

 

[Lucille]

You send a TOS after payment? If hope it is available prior to purchase too.

 

[nickolasanastasiou]

I don't see the issue some of you have with the buyer haggling on the price. Why can't he try for a better price? The ad states it is best offer and he even sounds like he is begging for offers. Sounds like he was willing to pay $650, but wanted to see if he could knock it down anymore, but didn't want to risk losing the snake so quickly came up. I don't see any red flag about that...seems typical.

I just don't see a reason for holding the money hostage like he hurt you in some way. From start to finish this whole ordeal was, what, maybe a week? What harm was done that you feel like he owes you $150? Just because it is in your TOS? Not to mention to some degree you were misleading. That will scare away potential buyers. It just sounds like you are trying to make a quick buck off of him. Even scarier was you didn't offer back the second payment right away. You had no right to that money and no claim should be needed for that.

It is typical of some people and atypical of others. A person "showing interest" can make whatever offers he or she wants. A person selling can decide how much of that behavior they want to accept. I would respond to that no differently than if he were making his offers in single-dollar increments. He was told a bottom number early on. He repeatedly ignored that bottom number. If someone repeatedly ignores what I say, I am less inclined to do business with that someone. I consider it a matter of manners.

 

[Big Borg Reptiles]

I consider it a matter of manners.

I had someone offer me $200 for $600 in snakes, I had to use every ounce of my willpower to respond in a professional manner and tell them no. It's just about being respectful, it's not insulting to the seller so much as it is to the animal. I think it's just a tactic to try to get you to come way down on your asking price but it leaves a very bad taste in my mouth.

At the point where someone is arguing a few dollars though it reaches the point of being annoying. That doesn't mean they did anything wrong, but come on.