Bad Guy Mike Matson (Mike's Phat Frogs) sold me a WC snake as CB

[juliasara]

I don't think any one ever said she was 100% right for how she handled it. That doesn't make the way you reacted right though. Instead of constantly pointing fingers, why BTW make you look bad, how about trying to simply take responsibility for your part in it and leaving it at that.

 

[EdwardK]

I sent a e-mail to MITSINJO which is a conservation program for herps in Madagascar and they were blunt that there is no farm for that species.

some comments

Ed

 

[Lucille]

Yesterday, Mike sent me a written apology for some of the things he has said to me recently. He has also made a refund to a member here, detailed above, and other encouraging actions.
I'm not giving any free passes but I think those actions are a start. I hope this is a trend, not a band aid.
I have asked him to remove the video about the child, and would like him to remove offensive comments made elsewhere because in my opinion both these actions have resulted in negative feelings toward him.
Little seeds can grow up to be big trees. I suggest that it is worthwhile to sow the seeds of good business, instead of dissension.

I had hopes that more would be accomplished. If this was a true attempt at a fresh start rather than mere damage control, I think the video would have been removed, as well as FB posts that mocked various names you chose to bring there because they responded when you flew off the handle.
If your actions are not mere attempts at damage control but a fresh start, there is more that needs to be done.

 

[Fangthane]

If your actions are not mere attempts at damage control but a fresh start, there is more that needs to be done.

All things considered, I think it's highly unlikely that anything's really changed in any meaningful way. He still owes Rick $2k and I don't recall seeing even the vaguest remorse for anything he's pulled, including actively soliciting people to call and harass some of us - apparently yielding one nasty call that ended up being received by a teenage girl. I'm guessing that he finally decided to listen to whoever may have been whispering in his ear that he needs to do some major PR work, but salvaging his train wreck of a name on here will require a serious long-game. He's gone wayyyyy too far in the wrong direction for me to believe a couple of baby steps amounts to a real course reversal.

 

[John7429]

I've met Mike at several shows. I've purchased turtles from him in the past - in person, not at a show because he is local.
I did ask if they were WC vs CB and he did not hesitate to tell me WC. That was my one and only animal transaction with him (6 turtles). I had no complaints. The turtles are still doing well.

I am not his minion, nor am I taking any sides. I just wanted to share a quick line about my experience with him.

People have a tendency to jump on band wagons... both good and bad. I would personally like to see only people with direct or indirect experience make comments. Including hearsay and rumors is a waste of everyone's time.

The OP learned something... don't wait for an animal to die to contact the supplier. As with ALL retailers, immediate communication of anything gone awry is absolutely necessary. When considering we deal with LIVE animals, there are MANY variables that can attribute to problems - including shipping practices, husbandry, diet, temp, humidity, handling... etc. There is nobody in the industry that would give you the time of day if you contact them a month later to tell him your animal died. I understand this particular situation is a bit different because we're dealing with parasites and whether or not the WC/CH/Farmed status was communicated properly, but in GENERAL, we all agree that this is the case.

Mike has learned some PR lessons. Why do companies and important/rich people hire PR personnel? Because its not easy! Michael Jordan was a master at this... but he's unique. Maintaining your reputation while defending against attack is extremely difficult. Most people spiral out of control downhill when situations like this occur. This community is no stranger to that. Keep your cool and manage the situation without letting your emotions get the better of you.

I never wish to see anyone get slammed and forced out of their hobby/business undeserved. But I do adamantly want to put scammers away. There is no vendor out there that hasn't had an upset customer... or several for that matter. That's a part of being in retail business - regardless of industry. There is a "customer service" desk/counter at every large retail store to handle these situations by the thousands. Handling those situations well will make or break you. Don't let it break you, Mike. I personally do not think Mike is a "bad guy." But, I do think he could handle situations/adversity better. That is my opinion and I am entitled to it.

I am not involved in any way, shape or form, with those that say he owes them money so I cannot/will not comment on those situations. There are simply too many details for anyone to think they have a clear picture from the outside. Accepting later payment or loaning animals/money was surely done based on previous positive experiences and trust that was built over time. They made the decision to trust someone and something went sideways. It happens all the time and every market... you live and learn who to deal with. If you don't trust anyone, you are safe - and that is what many people/businesses do. There's no way to tell/know if someone you dearly trust today will not be able to follow through tomorrow.... that is the inherent risk of trust.

Whether or not his personality is welcomed in certain groups, communities, businesses, meets, or shows is up to those in charge at their discretion.

 

[Lucille]

I would personally like to see only people with direct or indirect experience make comments.

That is not how the VERY effective BOI works. Peer pressure can sometimes compel those who have done wrong to do right by their customers. Certainly, discussing the issues can have far reaching impact, both on the parties and as warning to others who may be thinking of future transactions.

 

[John7429]

That is not how the VERY effective BOI works. Peer pressure can sometimes compel those who have done wrong to do right by their customers. Certainly, discussing the issues can have far reaching impact, both on the parties and as warning to others who may be thinking of future transactions.

1. I did say "personally"

2. Peer pressure when it's accurate. Sidelined individuals that have no direct/indirect involvement are only adding fluff. Again - I include "indirect" intentionally. "My friend had a such-and-such bad experience" applies. "I heard someone say that such-and-such had a friend go through such-and-such and had a bad experience" should not.

I'm all for putting things out in the open and clearing up misconceptions or problems. I'm all for positive peer pressure to do the right thing. I'm all for exposing scammers. But, that doesn't leave an open door for anybody and everybody to chime in...

 

[Lucille]

Sidelined individuals that have no direct/indirect involvement are only adding fluff.

I disagree. There are many here that can see a scammer for what he is, and voice their opinion. If you are saying that the members who do so, should not, that is not in keeping with the way the BOI works. And it works well.

 

[hhmoore]

"My friend had a such-and-such bad experience" applies. "I heard someone say that such-and-such had a friend go through such-and-such and had a bad experience" should not.

If you've read the BOI even occasionally over the duration of your membership, you would realize that the second example you posted is specifically disallowed by the rules, even without the extra step of removal. Of course, that doesn't make the posts go away; but that rule is so well known that the offending party is typically shut down rather quickly.

 

[Fangthane]

People have a tendency to jump on band wagons... both good and bad. I would personally like to see only people with direct or indirect experience make comments. Including hearsay and rumors is a waste of everyone's time.

Much of the time, those who are directly involved with any given person are too close to the situation to see the big picture - sometimes unintentionally, sometimes in the interest of getting free animals for their support. I can't even begin to count all the times I've seen objective outside viewers catch details that ended up making a huge difference. It's an extremely common occurrence on here. Frankly, those I see putting forth your particular take on how the BOI should run often tend to be people whose activities/associations don't show them in the most favorable light.

Since most of what you're saying appears to be nothing more than you being hilariously dismissive of the gravity of his shenanigans, I think your claim that you're not taking sides is more than a little disingenuous. If you've taken the time to actually read all of his threads and still wish to minimize just how poorly he's handled so many situations, I think that's saying a lot about you - none of it very flattering. If/when your continued support puts you in a position where you're stalked, threatened, doxxed, etc - all activities in which mike matson has actively participated - I have a feeling you'll be singing a different tune.

 

[John7429]

I disagree. There are many here that can see a scammer for what he is, and voice their opinion. If you are saying that the members who do so, should not, that is not in keeping with the way the BOI works. And it works well.

We are getting off topic but I will respond. Mods can remove if they feel the need.

If you read what I wrote instead of taking things out of context, I said "I"m all for" exactly what you're stating. I very much value the function and operation of this BOI. HOWEVER, what I was saying is that in this particular matter, where there are more uncertainties than not, the people responding should be those directly and indirectly involved. Not his personal buddies or minions... not those that have grown to distrust him from reading other people's questionable experiences... I'm not denying that there have been bad dealings. I'm not denying there are people very much upset at him. But those situations have their own details I know nothing about... My experience was good. I have no complaints. That's all I'm saying. I'm not recommending YOU do business with him. I'm not "supporting" him. I'm SHARING MY EXPERIENCE which is a part of what this BOI is for. Why are you picking apart my post and trying to argue with me...? I don't have to defend myself but I choose to... for the sake of doing the right thing.

Pointing out an identified scammer (e.g. using someone else's photos, not following through with orders, sending a bottle of water on a trade, etc) is not what we're dealing with and NOT what I'm referring to. The base of this thread is: was it communicated as WC vs CB. The wider scope is the character of Mike. I do not believe there have been any accusations of a SCAM. He owes/owed some people money for inventory. He went on rants and threats. He suggested his friends harass people. These things have come to light. However, they don't qualify him as being a scam or prove he did or did not claim the snake was CB. Whether or not you want to deal with a person of this character is up to the individual and rightfully shown here in the BOI.

Is Mike questionable for some actions - absolutely. All I'm saying is I would PERSONALLY prefer those questions and allegations come from those involved in the situation(s). You don't go to a an event and let the fans participate... (rough analogy but that's what came up in my head). Leave out the threats. Leave out the insults. Leave out the he said she said. But then again... it does bring light some personality traits... so I don't think it was completely wasteful.

I do believe most of the involved parties are aware of and have participated in this thread. There is no need to speak on their behalf... If others have had negative or positive experiences, they too should be heard. But... no need for fluff. No need to pick apart everyone's posts and find things to argue about.

I sincerely hope I have not disrespected you. I am merely stating my opinions and the reasoning behind them. I am only responding directly to you because you asked for them.

 

[John7429]

Much of the time, those who are directly involved with any given person are too close to the situation to see the big picture - sometimes unintentionally, sometimes in the interest of getting free animals for their support. I can't even begin to count all the times I've seen objective outside viewers catch details that ended up making a huge difference. It's an extremely common occurrence on here. Frankly, those I see putting forth your particular take on how the BOI should run often tend to be people whose activities/associations don't show them in the most favorable light.

Since most of what you're saying appears to be nothing more than you being hilariously dismissive of the gravity of his shenanigans, I think your claim that you're not taking sides is more than a little disingenuous. If you've taken the time to actually read all of his threads and still wish to minimize just how poorly he's handled so many situations, I think that's saying a lot about you - none of it very flattering. If/when your continued support puts you in a position where you're stalked, threatened, doxxed, etc - all activities in which mike matson has actively participated - I have a feeling you'll be singing a different tune.

Lol I guess I'm beginning to see the character of some of the others involved. I did read every post... I spent 2 days on it. I'll take a quiz/test if you'd like. lol


I'm not taking the situation lightly at all... where did you come up with that? I merely stated that those not involved should limit their postings. I do care about the animals. You know nothing about me. I serve on the board of directors at www.scapeclub.org. I am the director of operations at www.thelilysanctuary.org. I am the adoption chair and board member at www.octortoisecttc.org. I do not spend all day and night in the forums - hence my low post count. But I am involved - in real life. If you notice, I do a lot of rescue type work, not retail. Why? Because I care about the well being of the animals... I'm not here to make money or take sides. I truly want to stay in the loop of what's going on.

Nobody should have to post a resume to be heard here... give me a break. You're accusing MY character because I posted a positive experience...? Because I posted my opinions on the situation/matter? I did not make ANY suggestions on how the BOI should operation. I merely stated what I would PERSONALLY like.... goodness.

Maybe I'll have more comments to respond to when I get back. The OC Animal shelter has a CA Desert tortoise I need to pick up in a bit. I'm the individual entrusted with the tortoise tags by the DFG in Orange County.... real life. In case you don't believe me, here is the animal in questions: http://petadoption.ocpetinfo.com/Lo...erBy=asc&sortBy2=secondary_breed&orderBy2=asc

Semper.

 

[Fangthane]

Lol I guess I'm beginning to see the character of some of the others involved.

Just like everyone else who'll read this thread. That's a big part of what this forum is all about. We're all judged by what we say on here. Was there supposed to be some grand point to alluding to the obvious? "lol"

I'm not taking the situation lightly at all... where did you come up with that?

Couple of examples:

Is Mike questionable for some actions - absolutely.

I don't think that "questionable" even begins to cover him and the actions he's taken since bursting on to the BOI scene some 7 years ago. Of all possible adjectives available to describe what's been documented in the past 7 years, "questionable" is a pitifully inadequate descriptor.

Pointing out an identified scammer (e.g. using someone else's photos, not following through with orders, sending a bottle of water on a trade, etc) is not what we're dealing with and NOT what I'm referring to. The base of this thread is: was it communicated as WC vs CB. The wider scope is the character of Mike. I do not believe there have been any accusations of a SCAM.

Maybe the above comment is specifically in regard to the situation outlined by the OP of this thread. If so, referring to a WC snake as CB could easily be considered a scam. Given his documented propensity toward grossly misrepresenting the reality of any given situation, it's extremely plausible that he did call the snake CB. Since no one seems to have knowledge of any farms producing this species, even his contention that he did refer to it as "farmed" would have been dishonest. In typical mike matson form, he's quick to pass the buck to some nameless wholesaler who supposedly represented it to him as such. Awfully convenient that he doesn't want to throw them under the bus after blaming them for any misrepresentation...

Regarding the "wider scope" you'd mentioned: Since you seem to be putting forth a fairly strict definition of what a scam is, he's still clearly guilty of having scammed someone out of $450 for an animal order that he never fulfilled. Pretty sure he blamed that on one of the girlfriends whose name he'd used to post on this site.

I merely stated that those not involved should limit their postings.

And I merely stated my opposing view, editorializing on why I believe certain people tend to espouse your ideas on how this forum should operate.

You know nothing about me.

I know that your words come across to me as downplaying the situation, adding little more than "fluff". I know that I believe your use of the word, "questionable" to describe his actions is very lame and dismissive. I know that you seem to think self-aggrandizement serves some purpose here:

I serve on the board of directors at www.scapeclub.org. I am the director of operations at www.thelilysanctuary.org. I am the adoption chair and board member at www.octortoisecttc.org. I do not spend all day and night in the forums - hence my low post count. But I am involved - in real life. If you notice, I do a lot of rescue type work, not retail. Why? Because I care about the well being of the animals... I'm not here to make money or take sides. I truly want to stay in the loop of what's going on.

More pointless "fluff". If you're concerned for animal welfare, you may want to teach mike how to properly test his water.

Nobody should have to post a resume to be heard here... give me a break.

Considering how you'd "PERSONALLY" like to see the BOI operate, I think this sentiment would be much more appropriately directed at yourself. You're the one who doesn't seem to want to "leave an open door for anybody and everybody to chime in." I never said or implied that anyone should have to provide a resume, so "give me a break." Apparently, your own ego prompted you to try to justify yourself with a bunch of wholly irrelevant information that apparently amounts to the resume that no one had asked for.

You're accusing MY character because I posted a positive experience...? Because I posted my opinions on the situation/matter?

I have no issue with you posting your positive experience. It's aspects of your editorialization that I took issue with. Like yourself, I simply posted my own opinions in reply. Glad this forum isn't run the way you'd "PERSONALLY" like it to be, because I have the freedom to do so.

Go ahead and have the last word. I suspect it'll just be more wishy-washy weak sauce.

 

[juliasara]

I do think that with all these comments by Matson about individuals and the site, some of the info is getting buried (is that intentional? Seems to me I remember a certain auction company actually using that as a technique to deliberately hide negative information about them).

So here are a few threads to review. I hope that others will add their own thread collections which can be reposted whenever it seems as if the subject strays and gets buried:

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=577019&highlight=matson

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=576939&highlight=matson

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=537595&highlight=matson

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=184291&highlight=matson

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=284892&highlight=matson

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=240282&highlight=matson

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=152330&highlight=matson

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=158659&highlight=matson

This needs to be reposted since it was buried again.

 

[jaggyinn]

I was thinking about it today and if Jing wants a replacement snake I would be ok with doing that. However, I would prefer her to choose a CB species that is much easier to keep than the imported species.

Well, this is refreshing. Thank you for turning around on my issue and on others. I agree with others that I could've handled it better, and I will for future animals.

And since there's some back and forth on this, what I know is that Mike you told me she was captive bred, not farmed import. You've denied saying that, but that's what my SO and I both heard. This is way beyond beating a dead horse, we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Regardless, I appreciate your attempt at a resolution. However, I'm already looking into purchasing a bull snake or a tarahumara boa from reputable breeders, so I won't be taking up your offer. I hope you'll attempt similar resolution with everyone who has reasonable complaints.