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Bad Guy Craig Wyatt Scammer Bad Guy Selling Sick Animals

Just to paint a little more clear picture about his vet visit. He says he went to the vet on July 7 which was a Thursday. Same day he recieved the animals. Just called the vet and got there hours. On Thursdays they close at 7:00pm. We were still texting back and forth up to about 6:00pm that day. That leaves a 1 hour gap between the last text and the time the vet office closes.
I'm guessing if I were to give Jay those facts he would prob say after the last text I jumped right in my car and sped 100 miles an hour the whole way there. And I'm guessing the vet took one look at the chameleons and said hey screw my last few appointments I'll just see you instead as a walk in customer.
And thought hey the best idea about this visit is I should keep it a secret from my seller.
 
I'm sure his receipt for the business would show the date and time of payment, especially if it was by debit or credit card. That would be an easy way for him to prove that he did visit the day they arrived if that were in fact true.
 
zeppelin3k said:
pls tell me you have the puppet vid too... that vid sums jay up.
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Sadly, I only bothered to save the two that seemed most relevant to the transaction. When I'd watched the puppet video, it didn't seem like there was anything in it worth saving. The older I get, the less tolerance I have for his particular brand of attention-seeking buffoonery, so I only watched it when it was first posted and subsequently let myself forget that it even existed.
 
AllisonLeigh said:
I'm sure his receipt for the business would show the date and time of payment, especially if it was by debit or credit card. That would be an easy way for him to prove that he did visit the day they arrived if that were in fact true.
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I seriously doubt that the vet will be participating with Jay on this any longer regarding paperwork. If that paper work already existed Jay would have posted it. I would be shocked if anymore fudged paperwork came to the surface. Well not shocked because of who we are discussing here but I would be suprised a bit.
 
Fangthane said:
Sadly, I only bothered to save the two that seemed most relevant to the transaction. When I'd watched the puppet video, it didn't seem like there was anything in it worth saving. The older I get, the less tolerance I have for his particular brand of attention-seeking buffoonery, so I only watched it when it was first posted and subsequently let myself forget that it even existed.
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Have no fear, I saved the puppet one lol I have no idea how to post it tho!
 
Snake-Queen said:
Chris Stancel may be a good vet & great guy, but by his response to you Nick, I would not take an animal to him. Jay broke Doctor patient confidentiality when he posted those unprofessional letters. Those letters will not hold up in a court of law (nor public) due to the lack of date on them and missing identifying information on the chams.

I am inferring from the responses the Dr sent to others, is that Jay took 8 chams (no where was it stated the specific species) to the vet, which the vet looked at and made deductions based on the information Jay provided. There was no formal examination, no x-rays or blood work; just supposition based on the clients "facts". As such, the letters are worthless as evidence, just as the Pet Protection Law is invalid in this case of reptiles.

Chris Stancel really should weigh in here and explain his letters, as they reek of unprofessionalism. The sellers name should never have been mentioned, there is no supporting evidence to show that the chams were examined closely and professionally, no identifying information was provided in the letters as to what type(s) of chams were seen … etc. This is enough to cast a shadow on the doctors reputation.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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I have nothing to add regarding the letters beyond the fact that Chris shared that he wrote them. There also could have been more paperwork provided to Jason, but I do not know either way. There could have been testing performed. I do not know whether there was or was not any testing. I cannot state that no tests were performed nor could I defend them having been performed with the information I have (which I shared). I have not fought for or against the validity of the letter with regard to the law since I have not familiarized myself with the law and am therefore ill-equipped to make statements on that portion of the topic.

I would like Chris to weigh in as well, but he has something going on in his life right now that demands more attention than this issue and I respect the prioritization of that. In addition, I also understand his stance regarding confidentiality between himself and his client regardless of what the client may have disclosed (or only partially disclosed if that is the case). Whether there is or is not more to the documentation and testing concerns that members here have expressed is something only Chris could clarify at this point (as I am not aware either way).

Knowing Ciccone's pattern of claims versus wholly revealed facts, I would withhold my conclusion regarding the totality of what is assumed to have not been performed or recorded until I knew for sure that he shared all of the documentation produced by Chris. I have yet to see Jason usher forth with the whole truth when it would potentially be to his advantage otherwise.
 
Yeah I did. I think its closer to $150. It's prob what he had left after he sold my animals. Looks like he's living the good life. I hope to one day have $150 so I can flaunt it to show I'm not hurting for money.
 
nickolasanastasiou said:
I have nothing to add regarding the letters beyond the fact that Chris shared that he wrote them. There also could have been more paperwork provided to Jason, but I do not know either way. There could have been testing performed. I do not know whether there was or was not any testing. I cannot state that no tests were performed nor could I defend them having been performed with the information I have (which I shared). I have not fought for or against the validity of the letter with regard to the law since I have not familiarized myself with the law and am therefore ill-equipped to make statements on that portion of the topic.

I would like Chris to weigh in as well, but he has something going on in his life right now that demands more attention than this issue and I respect the prioritization of that. In addition, I also understand his stance regarding confidentiality between himself and his client regardless of what the client may have disclosed (or only partially disclosed if that is the case). Whether there is or is not more to the documentation and testing concerns that members here have expressed is something only Chris could clarify at this point (as I am not aware either way).

Knowing Ciccone's pattern of claims versus wholly revealed facts, I would withhold my conclusion regarding the totality of what is assumed to have not been performed or recorded until I knew for sure that he shared all of the documentation produced by Chris. I have yet to see Jason usher forth with the whole truth when it would potentially be to his advantage otherwise.
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I respect your thoughts on this. I never thought you withheld any information.

Going by the information provided, yes Chris wrote them; we are left to speculate as to the extent of the examination, as Jay would not/cannot expound further on my his subject and I can understand Chris' stance on discussing it further.

Anything Jay told Chris is suspect IMO, so without further documentation to prove which chams Jay took to him to see, the papers are as useless as Jay's posts.
 
Snake-Queen said:
I respect your thoughts on this. I never thought you withheld any information.

Going by the information provided, yes Chris wrote them; we are left to speculate as to the extent of the examination, as Jay would not/cannot expound further on my his subject and I can understand Chris' stance on discussing it further.

Anything Jay told Chris is suspect IMO, so without further documentation to prove which chams Jay took to him to see, the papers are as useless as Jay's posts.
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I likewise respect yours and those of others here on this. I simply lack enough information to be able to -for myself- reach a more thorough state of knowing the situation.

Overall, yes, I see it the same way.
 
Snake-Queen said:
I respect your thoughts on this. I never thought you withheld any information.

Going by the information provided, yes Chris wrote them; we are left to speculate as to the extent of the examination, as Jay would not/cannot expound further on my his subject and I can understand Chris' stance on discussing it further.

Anything Jay told Chris is suspect IMO, so without further documentation to prove which chams Jay took to him to see, the papers are as useless as Jay's posts.
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With respect to the vet we have to keep in mind that if tests were or weren't performed it would be at the decision of the client and not the vet. So if the client refused the workups the vet would only have been able to go with a visual inspection of the animals and based an evaluation on that alone. Now it would have been nice for this to have been included in the letters but there isn't a requirement to do so under the way the law is written. Now there is a suggestion that treatments prescribed should be included in those letters by the way the law is written but its not mandatory. Personally I'm leaning to the side that any workups were declined by Jay since he was using calcium supplements for them without determining the underlying reason for the problem (and the claim that he knows what to do because he's been working with chameleons for 15 years).

Jay could have easily just wanted a visual inspection for the determination of the letter and disclosure of this by the vet would be a breach of confidentiality which is required under the law in NJ
A licensed veterinarian shall keep records confidential unless the veterinarian is required by law to release the records, or upon Board request, or upon client authorization at the time services were rendered, or it becomes necessary to release information to protect the health of a person or animal.
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from https://www.avma.org/Advocacy/StateAndLocal/Pages/sr-confidentiality-patient-records.aspx so we can't expect him to violate the law in this regard.

some comments

Ed
 
I just got off the phone with his "vet" Cristopher Stancel. Now I put vet in quotation marks for a reason. Cristopher Stancel is a real vet. But in the place of vet I wanted to put "friend" because that's exactly what he is. This is the same man that Jay referred to as his partner. Chris did say they are not partners and I do believe him. But I know this is Jay was referring to as his partner. They even vend at reptile shows together. Chris stated this to me.
Chris stated that Jay called him and asked him to come over and check out some panthers. So after work Chris stopped by his house. And at that time only looked them over. No equipment, no X-rays, no bloodworm just a visual look. Now maybe he really did. But I have no clue what animals he checked out and neither does Chris. Now is this one friend looking out for another you guys be the judge. Could be true could be totally false.
There was no follow ups at the actual vets office. I mean nothing. Is that Chris's fault? Heck no. They are not his animals. But if they were as sick as Jay is stating and his good buddy is a vet why not document this correctly. I'm sure it would have been prob right next to free. But even if it was full price Jay stated that he didn't want to send them back to me because he only cared about the animals at that point. Right Jay? Those are your words not mine. But then if they were really my animals then it would really be on the record.
 
Correction on the timing part of the visit. Chris stated that he had an opening slot of time during that day with no appointments and he drove to Jays house during his work day. (Only an awesome friend would do this)
I don't want to put anything but the absolutely truth and I'm sorry I screwed up that little part. It is what it is and I will not twist anything.

Chris if you feel like something is wrong than you can post it here. But I'm positive with this little correction that I told only what was discussed between the 2 of us.
 
All this is really is one friend that just happens to be a vet visiting another friend and looking over some animals. I 100% guarantee all of you that there was no money paid so it's more of a friendly visit at a friends house. I see absolutely no reason in the world why Chris can't legally post here.
 
Craig Wyatt said:
All this is really is one friend that just happens to be a vet visiting another friend and looking over some animals. I 100% guarantee all of you that there was no money paid so it's more of a friendly visit at a friends house. I see absolutely no reason in the world why Chris can't legally post here.
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If Chris did indeed visit Jay at his house as friend to look at the animals and no money exchanged hands and no formal paperwork was processed; there is no confidentiality issues. Chris just chooses to stay silent on this issues, which is his right, but it doesn't make him look very good. If I was Chris, I'd come & lay out the circumstances of the "examination".

I'm betting that Jay lied to Chris & he is a victim of Jay's as well. However, we won't know this for a fact unless Chris decides to come and clarify what really happened and what Jay told him.
 
TheLizardKid said:
Jay has sold me sick animals. He constantly promised to replace them but still to this day never has. I have never had a bad interaction with Craig.
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You are going to have some PMs coming your way. I recommend not posting until what gets discussed has been hashed out.
 
I have requested clarification to whatever extent I can get it and am waiting to see if I get the go-ahead to post it. I assume there are some things I am not to be told since I have no clinical relationship here.

I am not sure that money exchanging hands is a make-or-break factor in confidentiality. A free clinic would still be confidentiality-bound, for example (not saying that is what this is at all). Voluntary medical services or evaluations, as far as I know, do not serve as exemptions to confidentiality.

Anyway, I have asked to post correspondence that may or may not help some concerns, but should at least clarify a few details. Since I have no dog in this fight, I want to get back to moderating because this is already eating up limited extra time for me.
 
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