Info Keven Vogenberger, Keven2, questionable stock

[Snake-Queen]

So mind you I’m new to this whole reptile thing still. If a reptile develops mbd, is it doomed with no hope of recovery? I’ve seen tons of mbd posts on the groups I follow on Facebook and I’ve never once seen a owner put down their animal that developed mbd with a previous owner. They put the animal in it’s correct environment and it thrived. Even if it had mbd in the past. I would really be more understanding of all you guys bashing Keven if more than just ONE of these instances happened. But one mistake out of hundreds of animals he’s sold on here. You literally see his name in just about every category in the classifieds. Cmon now. It’s really not worth adding fuel to the fire. I’ve never seen a bad review from any one who’s received a animal from
Him.

I've had to euthanize a rescue due to severe MBD. It all depends on how bad the MBD is, how far it has progressed and what body part is affected.

In this one issue, we have several lies ...
Keven did not handle this well at all. How a seller handles bad press is a true representation of their character and speaks on how they may react with a potential buyer if something goes wrong.

 

[Insomniac101]

He even held my animal for me at no additional cost till weather in my area was warm enough to ship.

Everyone has their day when they make mistakes. You guys aren’t perfect. You guys make mistakes.

Holding animals until shipping conditions are safe, is standard procedure in this hobby.

I don't consider deliberately lying to people as being a "mistake". That was deceitful, and when pressed, his story about veterinary care (or lack of), changed several times.

Keven probably means well, but I think by taking in all these animals, he got in over his head. He stated that he would have to start euthanizing, if he can't sell some animals. If I had to give up a pet, and I found out later that the "rescue" I gave it to euthanized it, I would not be happy.

Kathy

 

[Snake-Queen]

Anyone caring so much about the animals is not going to imply a threat that animals will be killed off due to the fallout of exposing that situation. A low move IMO.

^^^ this!

 

[Keven2]

First off I want to say thank you to Candie and Andre for the kind words. I did not say I was going to kill off my reptiles. I stated if this effort to try to destroy me worked I would not be able to care for them and I didn't hear any of you offer to take them off of my hands especially since the rescues I have are only going to need constant care until they pass. So what other option would you leave me??? The reason I haven't responded is because at this point it doesn't matter. You just proved that. Two people give positive feed back and you attack them and say they aren't credible. Everything I say you twist around. I will not disclose the vet tech I took the Cham too. I will not subject anybody to this! The thing about this is I've not been able to eat or sleep I've been a complete wreck over this. Not because of money but because I'm doing all I can to keep a float for the tons of rescues that no body wants. It's the fact that I care so much for every reptile I have and give everything I have to the rescues I keep and the animals I buy and sell to take care of the rescues I have. Its because my reputation is at stake over an ad that i took down immediatly. Its over a mistake and nothing intentional! It literally makes me sick to see there is absolutely no compassion. I've had people tell me I don't care for my reptiles that I wouldn't hold my word if a reptile died in transit. Really nasty horrible things calling me a lier. These people along with you dont know me or what i stand for at all!! Well just cause I don't do what you want doesn't make me a lier! Your just are out for blood no.matter who it hurts. I have literally sold over a hundred reptiles on here. Ive gone above and beyond because i only want whats best for the animal! I've had not one bad review on any animal I've sold. I've literally made every decision on selling a reptile how id want to be treated. If I knew that this veil was a sick looking veil not an old looking helmeted chameleon I wouldn't have even of posted him. Looking now after all the comments I would have worded my ad differently. You are just so he'll bent on this vet. Even if I got papers they wouldn't be good enough you would say I made them up. I did not write the last two replies and I in know way told them what to say! I guess we will have to see if more peo people can validate that I don't rip people off. I could see if o sold the animal to someone and dipped them.off but your trying to ruin me over an animal I didn't even sell on here. There is absolutely nothing left for me to say. Just think for a minute that you are wrong and I'm not lying how that would make someone feel. Every one makes mistakes that's just being human but having compassion and understanding is being human also! I am going to go forward and do the best job I can despite the absolute hate that's being cast upon me. Reptiles are my passion taking care of them is all that matters I will keep selling reptiles so I can care for as many sick reptiles as I can no matter if you leave this up or take it down. I do evetything in my power to make My prices quality of Reptile and customer service the absolute best it can be i refuse to let this bring me down any longer cause i know the truth and its not what your portraying me to be im honest to a fault loyal as can be and ask anybody that knows me my word is my bond! I truly hope you all have a blessed day.

 

[BlueCrowned]

So now you took it to a vet tech? I thought you only called a vet tech?

 

[Shiari]

If you have to buy and sell animals in order to care for your 'rescues', then you have gone beyond your means as a 'rescue'.

And no vet tech would tell you that lizard was healthy. To do so is illegal.

 

[Snake-Queen]

Keven, you are twisting everyone's words.

First you said you took it to a vet. Lie

Then you said you called a vet tech & the said it was healthy. Probably a lie.

Now you say you took it to a vet tech.

Which is it?

 

[Lucille]

I did not say I was going to kill off my reptiles.

Here is what you said:

So at this point you have probably crushed my ability to sell anything on here and having so many rescues that no one wants I will have to start uthenizing them .

 

[Lucille]

I will keep selling reptiles so I can care for as many sick reptiles as I can .

If I knew that this veil was a sick looking veil not an old looking helmeted chameleon

You wouldn't know a sick reptile if you tripped over it.

 

[Lucille]

Exactly how are you 'caring for sick reptiles' if you don't take them to the vet and instead put them up for sale when they look miserable and ill?

 

[Snake-Queen]

The chameleon does not have mbd. It was in a bad situation but I paid 100.00 to get him out of the home he was in so I don't know if I would not classify him being a rescue. After doing research and taking him to a vet he is a different kind of Cham then a veil so he looks different. I need to. Free up some space and figured I could find him a new home and maybe recoup some money. He has had a fecal and look at by my vet and the vet said he is healthy as can be . When I got him they had him in a 5 gallon tank and that is why I paid 100.00 for him. I have since taken the ad down because I just don't have the energy right now to explain what's up with him. He eats like a pig drinks great acts great. I keep him and all my Chams in outside cages and I have just ran out of room. So I was just trying to recoup a little cash and find him a good home.

Omg I took it too a vet and my ad said I didn't know what kind of Cham it was I took it to the vet she told me it was a helmeted chameleon I'm not posting names or paper work I really don't have time for this I took the add down I apologised I admitted what I did was wrong while unintentional it was not right please just let this go. I have so much going on to sit here and argue back and forth with you. You proved your point you are right I am wrong.

First off im not throwing the vet tech under the bus I called and talked to the vet tech. Me not knowing enough about my product was wrong and I admit that but this bullying is wrong also.

So at this point you have probably crushed my ability to sell anything on here and having so many rescues that no one wants I will have to start uthenizing them cause without the money from the sale of animals I cannot care for them and no one wants them!

did not say I was going to kill off my reptiles. I stated if this effort to try to destroy me worked I would not be able to care for them

I will not disclose the vet tech I took the Cham too.

You are just so he'll bent on this vet. Even if I got papers they wouldn't be good enough you would say I made them up.

These are your words. No one has put words in your mouth.

You can have 100 great transactions and one bad one, it makes no matter, what matters is how you handle yourself in the bad one. This wasn't even a bad transaction, it was an inquiry.

I don't think you are a bad guy, just in over your head. You need to stop taking in rescues, especially if you cannot care for them all.

 

[acecurl16]

So ... can we all ... I understand the it's easy to give good customer service when all is well and the true test is when things go wrong ,,, but the repetition here is pointless .. Keven has indicated he made mistakes and tried to apologize .. only to get reprimanded further ... whereupon by his own admission he gets defensive. I have had several opportunities to talk with him and he seems very concerned and compassionate about his critters ... he seems to be trying hard to take good care of them and do things right .. perhaps Melissa is correct and he has a hard time saying no to taking in more critters .. if tdohat's true than he needs to come to those terms ... but to continue this ongoing argument seems pointless.
I have no dog in this fight .. so my impression is strictly that of an outsider .. I do know the people who spoke in his favor from Facebook and don't think it was fair to treat them with no sense of community fairness ... I know we all have opinions and some of ya'll have very strong opinions and personalities ... but I for one enjoy being a member here and the folks that make up this community .... I hope my words aren't misunderstood!

 

[Ed Clark]

Posted by Keven vogenberger (Contact Me!)
April 14, 2018 at 12:12:48
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I took a look at Kevens kingsnake ads he has posted on there.I don't believe that many are rescues but do believe that most are animals he has picked up as wholesale lots and he is just flipping whatever he can get his hands on.maybe it would serve him better if he slowed down and got to know each animal to make sure there are no problems before he jumps on his pc to make some $$$ maybe he can avoid another veiled problem like this one,and dude properly identify the animal you are selling.

I am not buying his rescue story after reading all his lies here.what his mission in life is, is flipping whatever he can get his greedy hands on.I am not judging him for flipping, Keven...just do it right,that's how you avoid another BOI thread.

 

[Lucille]

to continue this ongoing argument seems pointless.

The way someone responds to adversity is not pointless. Keven chose to lie. Keven chose to say that he was going to euthanize his animals. And Keven alone chose to acquire enough animals that he is in a bind.

There is no argument here. People will read this thread and draw their own conclusions. Trying to have the last word and then hush the thread doesn't work here. New information comes to light as it just did in Ed's post.

 

[acecurl16]

Wasn't trying to have last word or hush anything .. just feel repetitious and redonedent. Sorry .. I'll go away again and be silent

 

[Snake-Queen]

Wasn't trying to have last word or hush anything .. just feel repetitious and redonedent. Sorry .. I'll go away again and be silent

While it may be repetitive, there is a reason for that. If Keven would stop asserting he took it to a vet/vet tech or called a vet tech, it would probably die down. Also, twisting our words doesn't help him either.

Yes, he apologized for his mistake on the identity & health of the cham, but still lies about the vet.

As long as he properly represents the animals he is selling, he should not have any issues.

As far as the rescue bit, he needs to learn how to say no and/or refer people to other rescues. He also needs to learn that you cannot save all the animals.

 

[Helenthereef]

Wasn't trying to have last word or hush anything .. just feel repetitious and redonedent. Sorry .. I'll go away again and be silent

I thought you made valid points, and whatever the merits of this case are, it is totally OK to come on and express a different point of view. I hope you are not discouraged by this - if all viewpoints are not included it's not a discussion.

 

[AppEcto]

I think you are lying.

You lied about what kind of cham it was
You lied about its health
You lied about taking it to a vet

And after all, you lied to us about taking this critter to a vet yourself

Keven chose to lie.

In this one issue, we have several lies ...

First you said you took it to a vet. Lie
Then you said you called a vet tech & the said it was healthy. Probably a lie.

Yes, he apologized for his mistake on the identity & health of the cham, but still lies about the vet.

I think calling him a liar 9 or so times is probably enough to make the point. The ad was removed, the chameleon properly identified, its health issues made known, and he apologized (multiple times) for the incident. I don't see that it makes much difference if it was seen by a vet or vet tech in light of this. In the interest of being constructive, how about stating what you want from him at this point? I'm wondering myself since it doesn't seem to be owning up to the issue and apologizing.

So if you'd like to hear I was wrong that is no problem. It was wrong for me to post the add I posted I should have worded it differently...Believe me this will not happen again.

Anyway you are 100 percent correct and I am 100 percent in the wrong but have learned from this mistake. Thank you for bringing this to my attention and I truly hope you have a blessed day!

I apologised I admitted what I did was wrong while unintentional it was not right please just let this go...You proved your point you are right I am wrong.

Yes did my ego get into the way when people started yelling at me how bad off the animal was and making me feel stupid for not knowing it wasnt supposed to look like that yes I looked like an idiot and it hurt my feelings so I lashed out and that was wrong but hey that's a character defect I need to work on and i opologize for that!

I admitted where I was wrong...I took the ad down i admitted where i was wrong and i appologize to whoever it was i went off on in the beginning of this. Anyway I don't know of anything else I can do.

 

[Carlton]

What surprised me when I read all this was the fact that no one, including the "vet tech" commented on the obvious old thermal burns on this animal's spine. A professional who actually saw him would have noted this. Many of the dorsal spines are damaged or completely gone and the tissue damage probably created the spine's warped shape. There is obvious scar tissue that may or may not be completely healed and a couple of patchy areas over the ribs too. Yes, I do see some MBD damage in the legs, but it might be stable. No way to know how active the problem is. His casque is smaller than normal, but casques on veileds do vary. The distended cloaca area is also a concern. Could have a history of prolapses or partially retained sperm plugs. Again, all things a new keeper should be advised about. Basically a pretty battered chameleon that may need extra care no matter whose hands he ends up in. No legitimate chameleon dealer would have sold this poor old guy, they would have put him in the most kind-hearted home they could find.

Whether there were deliberate lies told or not, the point here is that the seller was completely ignorant about the animal offered for sale. That speaks volumes.

 

[Keven2]

See your just digging for stuff what I said is i have a friend that is a vet tech and she looks at my animals on the side. How else do you propose I care for my animals. Work a 40 he week job. No I sell reptiles to make money to care for them. What part dont you get. I'm not just some wealthy person I have to make money to help rescues. How is that not a logical thing to do. You are very strange. How do you think rescues work? They get donations to run. I do not get donations I work my butt off to be able to care for them.i don't buy nice stuff I buy crickets medicine and supplies. You say your doing this because you care about reptiles bull shit your doing this because this is what you do on here. This is exciting to you. You get off on this stuff! You are sick and need help! How many reptiles have you sold. How many do you care for every day? You have absolutely no idea what I'm about or you wouldn't do this kind of thing. That Veil might have looked bad but he eats and gets around as good as any veil. You haven't seen sick if you think That's sick. I've got some reptiles from people lately that make you want to cry. There's nothing that can be done except make them as comfortable as they can be until they pass. What are you doing for reptiles besides trolling fauna?? I know I do my part. I half way want to just have a ton of customers give details about there transactions with me. I answer questions at any time 3 or 4 am on a regular basis. I make 50.00 an animal and hold some for 3 months at a time most for a month or so after feeding and care how much do you think I make? Not a lot. You have no idea the lengths i go to to make sure i give 100 percent customer satisfactions because the rescues i have depend on me to make money for them.it really won't be hard to blow this thread up with satisfied customers customers. As much as I want to I dont know if i should subject anyone to this kind of bullying. Anything said you will find fault. People like you make me so disgusted you do things out of spite and not common sense. Common sense a guy takes care of a ton of dying reptiles let's make it harder for him because he mad me mad! Cause that's all this is you know I didn't know this was a Veil I can't prove it was taken to my friend a vet tech cause I won't put her out there but that's immaterial. Your saying I was trying to pass off a sick veil. You know that's not true. This is about your feelings and feeling of power. If Keven doesn't show vet papers!! Lucille will do this to him hu I'll show him how dare he do this to me. How dare he not show me what i want so i can try to torment someone poor girl that made a mistake! so Lucille feels better about herself. Anyway ive been up since 4am soaking sick animals went to bed last night at 2 after caring for reptiles all day. Thats just about my daily routine so when I don't get right back to your bullying on here that's why. Not cause I don't care to defend myself I honestly don't have the time!!!!!