Reptster.com experience with show sponsorship not good

[WingedWolf]

You missed the part where it doesn't make you look like a great professional to insult others who disagree with you in public, either. Congratulations on a skillful ad hominem attack, though. Or something like that. Yes, I realize that I flew off the handle on Dennis earlier, as well--at least I apologized for it.

I continue to think the whole thing looks pretty shaky, and I'll just go back to keeping my mouth shut and wait to see what happens. As it appears I'm likely to have my head chopped off, and to be stuffed into the same bag as David if I appear to express any doubts whatever over the issue.

 

[HappyHillbilly]

Now again, for the folks defending UPS as a legal means of shipping snakes:
The Lacey Act is not a company policy. It is also not 'only the Lacey Act, which can be violated if we think it's convenient to lie to UPS'. It is ILLEGAL not to mark that your package contains a live animal, and what species it is. It does not matter if you use USPS, UPS, Fed Ex, or whatever. NOT MARKING THE PACKAGE CORRECTLY IS ILLEGAL.
Not just a little tiny bit illegal, but big time illegal.

Read for yourself: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/16/3371.html

If you cannot use UPS or DHL without failing to label what is in your box, then you cannot use them legally.

Donna,
Maybe this will help you with a different perspective.

Bobby Sue is a known gecko breeder and personally known by her local UPS terminal employess that she ships through. She's shipped geckos through them for years and often shows them off to the employees.

One day Bobby Sue decides to ship a snake to a friend. She properly labels the box in accordance to the Lacey Act. The UPS employees don't bother checking to see what's in the box and send it on it's way.

What law did Bobby Sue break?

She legally shipped a snake, albeit against UPS company policies, but not an illegal offense.

Have a good one!
Michael Sanders

 

[jayefbe]

You missed the part where it doesn't make you look like a great professional to insult others who disagree with you in public, either. Congratulations on a skillful ad hominem attack, though. Or something like that. Yes, I realize that I flew off the handle on Dennis earlier, as well--at least I apologized for it.

I continue to think the whole thing looks pretty shaky, and I'll just go back to keeping my mouth shut and wait to see what happens. As it appears I'm likely to have my head chopped off, and to be stuffed into the same bag as David if I appear to express any doubts whatever over the issue.

There's a difference between a difference of opinion and just willful ignorance. I welcome differing opinions backed up with informed and well-thought out reasoning. I won't condone or tolerate opinions without facts due to exceptional laziness.

 

[Marcial Mendez]

does anyone know what kind of discount you get with the Repster service vs. just shipping a box through your own Fed-Ex acct?

 

[homegrownherps]

does anyone know what kind of discount you get with the Repster service vs. just shipping a box through your own Fed-Ex acct?

FedEx discounts vary, depending on how many box's you ship.

 

[SPJ]

does anyone know what kind of discount you get with the Repster service vs. just shipping a box through your own Fed-Ex acct?

About 10 bucks.

 

[WingedWolf]

Donna,
Maybe this will help you with a different perspective.

Bobby Sue is a known gecko breeder and personally known by her local UPS terminal employess that she ships through. She's shipped geckos through them for years and often shows them off to the employees.

One day Bobby Sue decides to ship a snake to a friend. She properly labels the box in accordance to the Lacey Act. The UPS employees don't bother checking to see what's in the box and send it on it's way.

What law did Bobby Sue break?

She legally shipped a snake, albeit against UPS company policies, but not an illegal offense.

Have a good one!
Michael Sanders

Entirely true, and if the snake arrives at its destination without a problem, then she's legally used UPS to ship a snake. But taken an awfully big risk with the welfare of the animal, as UPS could have stopped the package anywhere along the way, since it violated their TOS.

In the vast majority of cases, UPS is going to catch the fact that the box contains a snake. And this isn't about a gecko breeder who ships one snake in a correctly labeled box and manages to slip it through the system. There are people routinely shipping snakes through UPS, and I have news for you--they are NOT labeling the boxes correctly.

As for the rest of it...I don't think I'm being exceptionally lazy by not reading 200 pages worth of text to try to find a handful of complaints. I quite simply don't have the time or mental energy for that. My initial complaint was about the noise to data ratio in this thread, and that complaint remains pretty legitimate--there's no way anyone can find anything in this mess. I have even been reading this thing nearly every day, and I still couldn't keep up with it. It's absurd.

Excuse me, I have to go get Fed Ex certified so I won't be torn apart by the cannibal masses. At this point, I'm losing the will to care what happened to whom, or when. Someone tell me when it's all over with, and the community has decided who I should ship through.

 

[MiIguanaLvr]

Again, anyone want to summarize it all? 204 pages now. I've been trying to follow this, honestly, but it's pretty difficult to find the information. I'm not the sort of person who can't be proven wrong. *shrug* I admit I'm about ready to give up on trying to explain my point of view here, and just go back to watching until the guy is either hung out to dry, or everyone kisses and makes up--that's the usual way things go in these threads.

I am not trying to be a jerk here but GEEZE, you just admitted you have not read or understood this thread yet you are commenting and giving opinions.

Please, seriously read it yourself. The summery is that David owes Kelly money and that others in this thread have had REAL problems with his professionalism and customer service.
There is your summery.

 

[GottaLuvHerps]

You keep saying I have not proven myself...what proof do YOU need? (well, you and Tosha really)...and I ask you AGAIN, how long does Mr. Young have until you will decide that he is not doing the right thing? What sort of timeline does it take for you (and Tosha) before enough is enough? He's had damn near 2 weeks now, and hasn't done squat.

Donna, I ask again...heck, if it's in the posts, I'll even link you right to them. I will take the time to go find them ALL OVER AGAIN just so you can continue thinking you are informed enough on the issue by what you have read thusfar, even though you admit it has not been everything.

Tosha, that offer goes to you too.

 

[WingedWolf]

I think I've read all of the stuff that has to do with Kelly Vs David--the original issue. It's the other complaints I've apparently missed.

 

[Dennis Hultman]

Originally Posted by WingedWolf View Post
Cat, shipping SNAKES via UPS is illegal, because they will NOT accept a package that is marked to contain a snake, and shipping a package that is NOT marked with the species name is a violation of the Lacey Act.

Not to take this to far the other direction.
That isn't actually the case either. They have a stated policy to the general public that they do not ship snakes. They have canceled peoples accounts in the past after deciding it was to much of headache to deal with and/or they received complaints. Truth be told, off the top of my head at least one person I know holds an account with them that has been authorized. I would assume there has to be at least a few more. Just because they have a publicly stated policy doesn't mean they don't authorize some. They don't want or better yet, haven't wanted in the past to let the general public ship. Will see if that changes if what David stated abut UPS coming to a agreement with them happens.

 

[Suncoast Herpetological]

As for the rest of it...I don't think I'm being exceptionally lazy by not reading 200 pages worth of text to try to find a handful of complaints. I quite simply don't have the time or mental energy for that. .

I believe you are a minority of 1 in reference to your statement in bold.

A very pertinent quote is placed at perfect reading level just under my name below

 

[SPJ]

Not to take this to far the other direction.
That isn't actually the case either. They have a stated policy to the general public that they do not ship snakes. They have canceled peoples accounts in the past after deciding it was to much of headache to deal with and/or they received complaints. Truth be told, off the top of my head at least one person I know holds an account with them that has been authorized. I would assume there has to be at least a few more. Just because they have a publicly stated policy doesn't mean they don't authorize some. They don't want or better yet haven't wanted in the past to let the general public ship. Will see if that changes if what David stated abut UPS coming to a agreement with them happens.

I don't know if I would trust using him to ship thru UPS.
I am still waiting to get some, any details on the agreement with Fed Ex since the way Reptster is setup currently violates the Fed Ex 3rd party shipping rule.

 

[GottaLuvHerps]

I think I've read all of the stuff that has to do with Kelly Vs David--the original issue. It's the other complaints I've apparently missed.

Ok, so then answer the question I posed before if you could.

You say that I need to clear something up because of my miscommunication with David. What did I not communicate to him, and when? What is it that I need to do to correct the situation? I quoted you in post #996 and asked this same question, but it was ignored, along with the others I asked. Maybe this comes from not reading the entire post.

 

[WingedWolf]

Well, if he does, no one will use it anyhow at this point.
None of the packages I have received from folks using UPS were properly marked. Heck, only one of the Fed Ex packages was. >.<

I think there is just plain widespread ignorance about this law--too many people in the community telling others it's ok to mislabel packages or leave information off.

 

[WingedWolf]

Ok, so then answer the question I posed before if you could.

You say that I need to clear something up because of my miscommunication with David. What did I not communicate to him, and when? What is it that I need to do to correct the situation? I quoted you in post #996 and asked this same question, but it was ignored, along with the others I asked. Maybe this comes from not reading the entire post.

David's complaint was that the amount agreed on over the phone was not the same as the amount you stated in your e-mails to him.
If David is just outright lying, fine. I usually give people the benefit of the doubt, at least at first. If he isn't lying, and YOU aren't lying, then obviously there was a miscommunication going on. You did not each understand what the other was saying, or trying to say. WE don't actually know what happened on the phone between you guys. You can back up all of the e-mails, but they don't prove what was said on the phone either.

Again, the point is that it's possible no one's LYING. It's not that hard for people to mess up communication, and to both believe they're right.

Looks bad for David at this point simply because he's waited so long to attend to the problem. That's very disappointing. We're all bystanders, whether we open our mouths or not, and we can't do anything other than wait to see what will happen.

 

[GottaLuvHerps]

I don't know if I would trust using him to ship thru UPS.
I am still waiting to get some, any details on the agreement with Fed Ex since the way Reptster is setup currently violates the Fed Ex 3rd party shipping rule.

Has anyone called the lady mentioned in ForkedTongues original post and spoken with her about this further? I would, but I think it would be unprofessional for me to do so since I am so deeply involved in the situation with Reptster. Maybe she can clear some things up, or can put you in touch with the person(s) who can?

For/to Donna:

None of the packages I have received from folks using UPS were properly marked. Heck, only one of the Fed Ex packages was. >.<

I think there is just plain widespread ignorance about this law--too many people in the community telling others it's ok to mislabel packages or leave information off.

You seem to be missing a HUGE point. It is not UPS or FedEx or the USPS or Bob's Shipping Service that has the responsibility to label packages correctly, it is the SHIPPER/SELLER. Isn't it just as easy for someone NOT to mark a package properly when shipping through Reptster as through anyone else? You cannot say that Reptster gives you the only LEGAL shipping option, but it is not about the service being legal, it is the seller/shipper who marks the package properly and ships it in a certified way with a company that allows this to happen. The only ILLEGAL way to ship snakes (or other reptiles that the SELLER does not properly mark) is through the USPS. Turtles for that matter through them.
UPS actually does allow people to become certified reptile shippers (for lack of better terms), you just have to call them and talk to the right people. Takes a little effort, but it can happen.

 

[GottaLuvHerps]

David's complaint was that the amount agreed on over the phone was not the same as the amount you stated in your e-mails to him.
If David is just outright lying, fine. I usually give people the benefit of the doubt, at least at first. If he isn't lying, and YOU aren't lying, then obviously there was a miscommunication going on. You did not each understand what the other was saying, or trying to say. WE don't actually know what happened on the phone between you guys. You can back up all of the e-mails, but they don't prove what was said on the phone either.

Again, the point is that it's possible no one's LYING. It's not that hard for people to mess up communication, and to both believe they're right.

Looks bad for David at this point simply because he's waited so long to attend to the problem. That's very disappointing. We're all bystanders, whether we open our mouths or not, and we can't do anything other than wait to see what will happen.

And again, I ask, how long does Mr. Young get to prove his side of the story? He has had 13 days now, and has not done anything to disprove my side. He has read the thread, posted a little with bogus information, had enough time to talk to people that work for him, talk to people at a show, undoubtedly talked to other people other places, but yet does not have the time to talk to ME? How much longer should I give him? How much longer do you plan to give him?

 

[Cat_72]

Cat, shipping SNAKES via UPS is illegal, because they will NOT accept a package that is marked to contain a snake, and shipping a package that is NOT marked with the species name is a violation of the Lacey Act. They will not accept and ship a legally marked package. This isn't debateable, it's the truth. The fact that hundreds of people are violating the law does not mean it's ok.

Looks like Dennis has pretty much summed up the point I was trying to make.

Not to take this to far the other direction.
That isn't actually the case either. They have a stated policy to the general public that they do not ship snakes. They have canceled peoples accounts in the past after deciding it was to much of headache to deal with and/or they received complaints. Truth be told, off the top of my head at least one person I know holds an account with them that has been authorized. I would assume there has to be at least a few more. Just because they have a publicly stated policy doesn't mean they don't authorize some. They don't want or better yet, haven't wanted in the past to let the general public ship. Will see if that changes if what David stated abut UPS coming to a agreement with them happens.

There ARE some larger-scale operations who UPS knowingly allows to ship reptiles, properly labeled and all. Plain and simple. IT IS NOT ILLEGAL. By company policy, they just usually do not allow it, regardless of whether the package is correctly marked or not.

As for the rest of it...I don't think I'm being exceptionally lazy by not reading 200 pages worth of text to try to find a handful of complaints.

But, I believe you called Dennis lazy....or maybe stupid....for asking here about some of Reptsters policies (when one claiming to be a part of Reptster had just told people to ask him questions)....yet you're posting as if you know what you're talking about, and then asking others to tell you what has actually gone on in the rest of the thread?

If you can't take the time to learn the whole story, perhaps it is best if you don't make assumptions. I agreed when an earlier poster said that your posts normally seem to be pretty well thought out and rational, I just can't figure out why the change in this thread....I can't see the change in tune to save a few lousy bucks on shipping an animal.

 

[Cat_72]

It is not UPS or FedEx or the USPS or Bob's Shipping Service that has the responsibility to label packages correctly, it is the SHIPPER/SELLER. Isn't it just as easy for someone NOT to mark a package properly when shipping through Reptster as through anyone else? You cannot say that Reptster gives you the only LEGAL shipping option, but it is not about the service being legal, it is the seller/shipper who marks the package properly and ships it in a certified way with a company that allows this to happen.

There ya go, well said!!