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Bad Guy DTS Herps

Scott: You are full of crap. I have those 3 photos set aside just under a separate folder and found them now and you cannot duck anything. You asked me to send you photographs of the available specimens and I sent you those exact 3 photos and you cannot blither any miscommunications on ads and other garbage. Eat crow and admit you were wrong. This far cry crap you keep spewing is fooling no one including yourself. You cannot come to any board and make any nonsense claims without proof. You have no proof and I have proof of the photos I sent you of the snake healthy.
 
That does look like the same snake but I was never shown this picture. The KS ad and what he showed me was of the 5 snakes in the picture he posted... as I didn't argue when he posted it here.


I was just pionting out that they seemed to match, (I noticed it straight off) so I posted it. I have no idea what pics he may have sent you.


Are you telling me this snake is one of the 5 in that picture? (sure it is darker than what Dan shows here now) but still IMO a far cry from what he posted and I was told I was getting in that picture of 5)

I don't think it's in there although I can't really see the markings on a couple of them, sorry.

Question...do these animals change colors like Hogg Island Boas and Cresties? That could explain the color difference (Perhaps it didn't like having it's picture taken).
 
Scott: You are full of crap. I have those 3 photos set aside just under a separate folder and found them now and you cannot duck anything. You asked me to send you photographs of the available specimens and I sent you those exact 3 photos and you cannot blither any miscommunications on ads and other garbage. Eat crow and admit you were wrong. This far cry crap you keep spewing is fooling no one including yourself. You cannot come to any board and make any nonsense claims without proof. You have no proof and I have proof of the photos I sent you of the snake healthy.

DAN read my posts. This snake in the picture is the one still living.

There is no arguing I got the snake from you Dan. NONE AT ALL! You did not show me this picture when I bought the snakes.

Second I didn't force feed it Dan!

Is that the same snake in the picture of 5 that you had on KS? I don't think so and a matter of fact you told me what 2 in that picture of 5 was mine and they all looked good so I agreed to take them. No other pictures were sent by you
 
Matter of fact I didn't argue the point when you posted that picture becasue that is the one you used. If that was a diffrent picture I would of spoke up and said something. You never sent me that picture of him by himself.
 
Scott: You are full of crap. I have those 3 photos set aside just under a separate folder and found them now and you cannot duck anything. You asked me to send you photographs of the available specimens and I sent you those exact 3 photos and you cannot blither any miscommunications on ads and other garbage. Eat crow and admit you were wrong. This far cry crap you keep spewing is fooling no one including yourself. You cannot come to any board and make any nonsense claims without proof. You have no proof and I have proof of the photos I sent you of the snake healthy.

Any chance someone who can check exif data can look at the date the photos were taken and compare it to the date they were delivered?

Obviously something went wrong someplace for the animal that died.

My inclination would be to say that it was an unfortunate side effect of shipping stress- it can pretty easily lead to dehydration and a general decline in health for some species. Which unfortunately can't be proven, but is the most probable explaination and one which would put the matter to rest as nobody's fault. It'd explain the drastic difference in appearance that Scott noticed on arrival and led him to believe he had been presented photos of different individual animals than the ones he recieved. If he had contacted Dan immediately, there might have been an opportunity to get things corrected, or Dan may have been able to give some detailed instructions for rehydration, minimizing stress and general TLC for the species.

It's also possible that the animals declined in Dan's care from the time the photos were taken till the time they were sent out. Which would be on Dan.

Or it's possible that they arrived looking perfect and Scott messed up husbandry details that caused a decline. Which would put it on Scott.
 
Lakeside: They do not change colors. The one he showed has a stuck on shed due to improper care.

Scott: You are a liar. Take the lie detector challenge. I did send you those 3 photographs and I will bet you over it. You first claimed to picked out snakes you were not sent, and now you are blithering over a larger photo saying you picked from that photo. BS my friend. Be accountable and responsible for your remarks and admit you are wrong as you will be held accountable. And if you did not force feed them - and you also told me it did not eat - they how the heck did it get a pink in it to vomit?

Which story are you going to choose now? Oh, the tooth fairy put the pink in its mouth? OK, I might believe that before your lies.
 
Lakeside: They do not change colors. The one he showed has a stuck on shed due to improper care.


Ah! I was wondering as when I look at my Hogg sometimes I wonder if someone didn't swap her out while I was sleeping.

Dang, and I'm learning something in these posts. That's not nice, Dan! :D
 
Seamus, the snakes were not shipped, they were hand delivered by a Fish and Game Biologist. Stop making guess work on the time table. I got them in from europe and within a week or two he had them and they were eating and healthy here and from his initial report on receiving them. If they were not, then he would have reported them sick but he did not of course. And I might add that these are delicate snakes. And odd care or temps or anything can throw them off feed. These are not like kings, rats, corns, or boas that can withstand a tad change in their caging and such. Without proper heat lamp, humidity, and the such, they can crash. And he did report it not eating and I suggested many things and never heard from him again until today. Despite that, I viewed it eating here as they all ate. You can see from the photo that it is not skinny nor dehydrated nor with a stuck on shed.
 
Seamus, the snakes were not shipped, they were hand delivered by a Fish and Game Biologist. Stop making guess work on the time table. I got them in from europe and within a week or two he had them and they were eating and healthy here and from his initial report on receiving them. If they were not, then he would have reported them sick but he did not of course. And I might add that these are delicate snakes. And odd care or temps or anything can throw them off feed. These are not like kings, rats, corns, or boas that can withstand a tad change in their caging and such. Without proper heat lamp, humidity, and the such, they can crash. And he did report it not eating and I suggested many things and never heard from him again until today. Despite that, I viewed it eating here as they all ate. You can see from the photo that it is not skinny nor dehydrated nor with a stuck on shed.

Kinda made the thrust of my points for me Dan. Hand delivered is still transportation- perhaps it would be a better term to use, as in this instance it is more specific... Transportation stress can trigger some negative reactions in the health of an animal and cause a decline that would result in an animal's death as well as a dramatically changed appearance.

Regardless of the manner in which the individual delivering it might be employed or educated, out of an enclosure where it was thriving into non-enclosure conditions, moved around and then redeposited in a new and different enclosure...

My guess from my experiences is that Scott likely recieved them with a dramatic change in color from the photograph he had been shown and that he assumed it was a different set of animals from those he anticipated recieving. Occam's Razor.
 
Dan that picture you show of the male by himself. Is that one of the 5 in that picture you posted here and as the picture in the ad on KS when you sold him a year ago?

That is the picture you used on KS when selling these guys. (I didn't argue over that picture when you posted it here)

Now you said you got a couple shippments of these guys in a few posts back right? So did you use this as a stock photo?
 
Dan you pointed out that I wanted the one with the stripe.(You made this comment several times now) You are correct because this photo is the only photo that you offered at the time. It was the one you posted on KS in the ad and when we talked on the phone I pointed this snake with the stripe out. You told me my 2 were in this photo. IMO their is a big difference in the group of 5 and the single male you have a picture of on top of the fact you admitted a few posts back that you only got 4 snakes (Raddies) and now he may not be part of this group of 5 because you got several shipments.

So if you claim that I wanted the stripe one in past posts you admit that that is the picture we went off of when selecting my snakes (or at least it was involved) and that you used it in your ad on KS BUT it has 5 snakes in it and you show you only had 4 snakes???? SO it must be a stock photo and why I believed I was getting one thing and got some thing different.
 

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Scott: Dude, unless you can provide proof in photos of the snakes you received and the photos of the snakes you selected from the email are different, then you are not getting anywhere. You alluded that you were sent the wrong snakes a year ago and have no evidence to support the claim. Not only that, I have the exact photos of the 3 specimens I emailed photos to you of, and one just happens to be the one you claim was darker - so my end of the proof has been presented. And you forgot to explain how the snake puked. If it did not eat and you did not force feed it, then how did a pink get in its belly? Had it never ate, I would think you would call me for some advice or consideration for another specimen but I heard nothing from you until today - almost a year. Your charges have more holes than a noodle strainer and I am not going to bother to waste anymore time trying to get you to admit you were wrong. I sent you the snakes you picked out and you said they arrived great and was pleased. A year later you have nothing better to do than open your loud mouth with bogus complaints with no evidence to support these charges. Heck, you got exactly what you chose.
 
You even noted in a previous post that I did get it to eat (meaning I contacted you that he did eat and my concern about it not eating might have been fixed) It wasn't as I pointed out. You need to re-read this from the get go. You are so confused and lost in your lies. Now you can't even come up with a good lie to get out of the question above. (Because your ass got busted) YOU POST A PICTURE of 5 BEAUTIFUL SNAKES in a KS ad AS BAIT AND SWITCH! I don't have to prove anything now. You posted a picture that wasn't the actual snake you were selling. You say you sent me the individual pictures but you didn't, why??? Probably because you knew the real snake you wanted to give me was not like the 5 in the photo you advertised.

(You pointed out I wanted the striped one)


I can count also and had a few shipments of raddei and dozens of photos of many of them. When I look back at the time frame, I recall that Scott asked for a striped one that was already selected by the zoo and think it came in with that shipment around the time where I received 4 on the documents .

But now that picture isn't the one the snake is in? BS DAN! This is the picture you gave me and reference the striped one I wanted. This was the only picture you gave and if there was only 2 left why would I even need to pick? I agreed to the 2 snakes because the picture of 5 has some really nice snakes but now we find out that you baited and switched! What is the truth? It is, it isn't? Damn the bad luck telling everyone I wanted the striped one. BUSTED! You BAIT AND SWITCH!

Each time I bring this picture up of the 5 you weasel your way out of it, now you don't answer but ask me to prove it. You proved it for me Dan. Anyone reading this can see you used a picture of 5 great looking snakes but you claimed you only got 4 snakes from Europe and referenced that I wanted the striped one in the picture. When I call you out on it you then say oh, but, umm I also got some more in around the same time?

Your lies caught up to you Dan. You used the picture of 5 and sold me a snake from the other shipment you say you got. (If that is really the case)
 
:eek:
You even noted in a previous post that I did get it to eat (meaning I contacted you that he did eat and my concern about it not eating might have been fixed) It wasn't as I pointed out. You need to re-read this from the get go. You are so confused and lost in your lies. Now you can't even come up with a good lie to get out of the question above. (Because your ass got busted) YOU POST A PICTURE of 5 BEAUTIFUL SNAKES in a KS ad AS BAIT AND SWITCH! I don't have to prove anything now. You posted a picture that wasn't the actual snake you were selling. You say you sent me the individual pictures but you didn't, why??? Probably because you knew the real snake you wanted to give me was not like the 5 in the photo you advertised.

(You pointed out I wanted the striped one)

But now that picture isn't the one the snake is in? BS DAN! This is the picture you gave me and reference the striped one I wanted. This was the only picture you gave and if there was only 2 left why would I even need to pick? I agreed to the 2 snakes because the picture of 5 has some really nice snakes but now we find out that you baited and switched! What is the truth? It is, it isn't? Damn the bad luck telling everyone I wanted the striped one. BUSTED! You BAIT AND SWITCH!

Each time I bring this picture up of the 5 you weasel your way out of it, now you don't answer but ask me to prove it. You proved it for me Dan. Anyone reading this can see you used a picture of 5 great looking snakes but you claimed you only got 4 snakes from Europe and referenced that I wanted the striped one in the picture. When I call you out on it you then say oh, but, umm I also got some more in around the same time?

Your lies caught up to you Dan. You used the picture of 5 and sold me a snake from the other shipment you say you got. (If that is really the case)
DANG....just when I thought I was getting a handle on this situation!! (back to rereading)..........:eek:

do not respond, this is not off topic..this is me "blithering!"
 
What are you trying to accomplish, Scott? Neither one of you has the e-mails with pictures attached so neither of you can prove anything one way or the other.

You got the word out that it may have been a bait-and-switch which is about all you can prove. Dan is going to keep saying no and that is all he may be able to prove (that he said "No"). Then we'll have another 50 pages to read.

Surely you don't expect any compensation after all this time?

The only thing that was proven is that the snake did indeed, at the very least, get photographed (presumably by Dan) and matches yours so it most likely came from Dan.

Forgive me for being a bonehead, but I don't see any of this leading to any kind of a solution for either of you.
 
What are you trying to accomplish, Scott? Neither one of you has the e-mails with pictures attached so neither of you can prove anything one way or the other.

You got the word out that it may have been a bait-and-switch which is about all you can prove. Dan is going to keep saying no and that is all he may be able to prove (that he said "No"). Then we'll have another 50 pages to read.

Surely you don't expect any compensation after all this time?

The only thing that was proven is that the snake did indeed, at the very least, get photographed (presumably by Dan) and matches yours so it most likely came from Dan.

Forgive me for being a bonehead, but I don't see any of this leading to any kind of a solution for either of you.


You guys are correct.

I am done. Infact I was done long ago but we kept going for some reason.

I made a point that I wasn't after anything from the get go.

I will not post here any more and I hope Dan will consider it over as he has said.
 
I was involved in the last big "DTS Bad Guy" thread about the possible IBD snakes, and have since stayed away from anything regarding Dan and his business practices. To refresh your memory (mostly Dan's), I was the "nice lady" that called the gentlemen who purchased the other pair of snakes that were bagged with the snakes in question in that thread.

I have read this thread twice now, to make sure I have a grip on things, and here is my main outlook on everything, as an outsider who has never done business with any of the parties involved in either thread.

1. Dan needs to do exactly what Harald suggested and start responding in a professional manner. Dan, the thing is, no matter how many times you say "I do it this way to piss off certain people," what you are not realizing is that, as an outsider, you come across as looking at EVERYONE as idiots. Maggie (Lakeside Boas) is someone I have come to respect a lot, and even she mentioned catching more flies with honey, etc. Dan, the thing is, you need to learn to be the bigger person, whether you are right or wrong in the threads about you, and just be professional. It really does affect how people see you, and many will choose whether or not they do business with you solely on how you react to bad situations. Even if you were proven right in every instance of something posted about you, I, for one (among MANY) would never do business with you simply because of your unprofessional attitude towards others.
2. In this particular instance, I do not think that Scott (Kingetula) was trying to "get" anything from Dan, he even stated that in his first post. I think the "heat of the moment" got him, and the argument started. I honestly believe, after seeing him post many times throughout the BOI on other issues, that if he would have had an issue he felt worthy of fighting over, he would have started this fight a long time ago in his own thread and done so with the proof he needed to "make it stick" better. I honestly believe he was just posting to share an experience and Dan was able to turn the entire thread around into something it was not meant to be to take the focus off of the issue at hand. We all know how good he is at that.
3. This whole situation with Andy was handled wrong - by both parties. Andy should have never sold that snake and expected Dan to handle any problems, but at least he has tried to retract the PayPal mistake to show this. Dan, on the other hand, needs to (once again) realize that an unhappy customer needs to be handled with kid gloves, as bad press spreads 10xs faster than good press in ANYTHING. Sure, the kid made a mistake, but at least he has owned up to his mistakes. Dan, as usual, refuses to acknowledge any mistake on his part, and refuses to answer questions. Bad business no matter how you look at it.

Dan, you can go ahead and call me names for not seeing your side, whatever you want to do. You can kiss my ass like you tried to do for awhile in the other thread, whatever you want to do. Fact is, your unprofessional attitude online causes a lot of people to think twice about doing business with you, even when you do seem to have a good diverse stock. Sure, you might still do 1000's of sales, and that might be good enough to you, but personally, I could never sell myself down the river over a few issues just to say "I'm right" all the time.

Kelly Kordek
 
I know it has been said before.....

The mark of a good business / breeder is how they deal with problems when they arrise. Well after reading this thread it looks like Im gonna have to find my Deinagkistrodon acutus somewhere else.

This is actually a pitty... cause I have seen alot of animals I would like on your site.

At least with me... you :shootfoot with this thread.
 
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