REPTILES PLUS IN FLA THEIVES!!! BUYERS BEWARE!!!

[dondeb562]

post number 6 is the email in which he said he would be refunding my money.

 

[kat77]

post number 6 is the email in which he said he would be refunding my money.

Oh I know Deb, I am just trying to figure out whether he acknowledges the email and what his reason for not making good on it is. In the end, that is sort of the entire point of this thread. If he acknowledges that he sent it to you, then I am completely baffled as to why he ever fought your allegations in the first place. It seems that once someone says they will give you a refund for a mistake that was clearly theirs, they should follow through. Good customer service can go a long way.

 

[rkstr07]

I think it's pretty much understood that you (Victor) do not want to give debbie the refund she wants, but the way that I've read this, she seems to be asking for the right amount if the e-mails posted between the two of you are accurate. Therefor I really don't understand your reason for not refunding her, other than you probably realized you could lose money on the deal after you hastily agreed to the conditions in an e-mail because you were trying to provide speedy customer service at the time.

I can't help but wonder after reading both of your sides, as well as the message from the man who purchased 4 snakes from you only to find out you only were able to provide the 2, if you were making sales before you actually had the animals at the time of debbie's purchase.

My real question in all this (as I feel that debbie is requesting the appropriate amount refunded according to the e-mails she posted on here) is:

Are the e-mails posted by debbie real?

-Kyle Scott

 

[dondeb562]

Yes he does make sales before he actually has the animals. He goes by a list his whole saler gives him. When I asked for pix of the mt merus before I paid him he said it was a special order item and that he will order it when I paid him for it and then he gets them on I believe he told me Tuesdays then ships them out immediatly.
I knew the mt merus were soon to be stopped for fresh imports so I believed he knew what he was talking about since he reassured me several times then even verified that he contacted the whole saler and they even confirmed they were indeed mt merus.

 

[shrap]

i have a customers already and as much as you would like it i am not going out of business anytime soon so get over it already!

That may be....

...but if you continue to run your business like a thieving scumbag it will eventually catch up with you. Word of mouth is slow, but it will eventually get around. And by the looks of things, it is doing just that.

 

[ForkedTung]

Victor, this thread has been looked at 10,202 times. Again that is
ten thousand two hundred and two times

I see this kinda thing frequently here. Instead of sucking it up, even if you think the customer is wrong ( which in this case she isn't) and making things right early on...things tend to spiral and gain their own momentum, exposing more and more...until it's too late...massive damage has been done to a business's reputation and countless potential future customers have been warned away.
There is a reason they say the "customer is always right" it works! we know that is not true in life...but business is not life.

The only thing you could possibly do at this point for damage control would be to:

a. shut up

b. write a thorough apology to the OP, (and Fauna members if you so chose) admit fault, be honest...I can't stress this enough be honest!!!

c. spell check that bugger and then post it here...

d. do everything you can to educate yourself about all the animals you plan on selling. ( I saw it looks like you have the animals labeled correctly after I pointed that out)

e. move on.

***most importantly*** REFUND HER the money immediately, as in right now! before even doing a. if you truly want to salvage your reptutation.

 

[brrrman]

$31.50 shipped is a genuine steal for a gravid Flapjack. Even at victors rate of 22.50 for shipping you would have payed like $9 for her. I can see why Victors partner put the brakes on that deal. What bothers me here is that debbie said she paid 112+for a cham she didnt get and 31.50 for the one she got for a total of around $145 bucks. Victor says he refunded the 31.50 part. stating she got her female flapjack for $112. Flchams sells flapjacks for $110 shipped. The B.O.I. Is here to help both businesses and customers who feel they have been taken. Neither party has shown proof of actual monies spent or refunded. Both just keep spouting off that the other is lying. Victor just show the proof, your the seller, I have personally backed you on the $9 chameleon as a more experienced buyer trying to get a bargain from your mistake. but as the seller show proof of the full $112 for the first cham bought refunded. If at first you agreed to a lower price then you need to show proof of 2 refunds.
the $77 bucks after the agreement and the additional $35 after your partner refused your deal. After you have you have proven that Debbie had only $112 into the cham, and she is still not happy with it. you should offer another refund after she sends it back. The chameleon being gravid has no bearing on price, the stress pretty much guarantees still borns thats why wild caught live bearers are still sold when gravid. but it would explain why someone would want to keep it when it wasn't what they originally ordered first.

 

[SofaKing]

If you read this correctly Debbie paid for cham she didn't want. Instead of shipping the cham back in extreme weather she decided to keep it, which makes sense and who's to say Victor would been honest if it arrived back to him alive. The cham being gravid came out later own has no bearing on the original deal. Their is enough proof in Debbies corner.

Now the fact Victor had a partner just recently came out, so just to know theirs another person who can't identify species makes this more amusing. Makes you wonder why we haven't heard this so called partner.

 

[dondeb562]

Just to clear things up a bit more. there was NEVER ANY mention of a "partner" until AFTER I filed the claim with ebay and posted our dealings on here. That was Victors excuse after over a week went by after the second payment. Had his so called "partner" not been ok with it he should have contacted me back that same day not AFTER our dealings went south with the bogus excuse on why he had to keep my money.
Also to to add. The cham was NOT gravid. She died about 4 or so weeks later and upon a external exam she was loaded with worms which gave her the bloated apperance. So yes I was out of my money and a cham. I am not saying the intestinal parasites were Victors fault at all. That is what happens when getting wild caughts. I knew the risk of that getting the cham knowing it was an import, so I do not blame him AT ALL for that. Just want to be clear here on that issue!

 

[ophidile]

Really sorry to hear the flapjack died

The tricky thing is the $31.50 price tag was dependent on you buying another cham from reptiles plus. Unfortunately it turned out they could not get the cham you wanted. So, back to square one.
How much does reptiles plus normally sell flapjacks for? The next best thing would be for reptilesplus to refund the difference between the flapjack and the Mt. Meru - I can't find any online sites selling both, so I have no idea what that should be. $40? Now returning the animal is ~obviously~ no longer an option, although I know it wasn't really on the table before, either.

To reptiles plus; yes this means you may have to lose some money in this transaction. Why? Because YOU sold the cham to Debbie and thus YOU are responsible for making sure it is the right one to Debbie. Your wholesaler has a similar responsibility to you, but not to Debbie. The whole point of a reptile broker is you assume some of the risks for the buyer, otherwise what service are you providing? It doesn't sound like you buy animals wholesale and then resell them individually (retailing/small quantities service), as several people have said you have the breeders send directly to them rather than you holding the animals at your shop.
Nor would have it been right for you to demand Debbie ship the cham back for a refund ~minus shipping~. Again, you shipped the wrong animal, you have to eat the costs.

I hope that is understandable, and an acceptable deal to both of you. Reptiles plus you can still salvage some of this situation.

 

[brrrman]

3 sides to every story side a side b and the truth

After slumming around the herp world for about 30 years you tend to sit back and see what the real story is. The customer is not always right. So Jay sofaking and forked tongue get a glance at what probably happened.
Jacksoni their subspecies and many other chameleons made the Cites F1 list in june of last year. That means no more wild caught specimens will be collected for Import. F1 farm raised will be the only chams of those species to be imported. they get rare, the price, if you can find one skyrockets. Debbie finds a cham list from a new guy on ks wow dwarf jacksons for $89
Too good to be true knowing this and knowing the rarity and often misidentified species the first thing she wants is a guarantee on Mt. meru.after a few E-mails and maybe phone conversations she realizes Victor is young, not the brightest and really eager too please. The cham arrives when scheduled appearing healthy, but wrong species, go figure. Buts its a nice looking specimen and it looks gravid so she decides to keep it. Talking him into a rip off deal of $31.50 shipped post 2 or 3 said shipping was $23 leaving her with a nice cham for $8.50 being wild caught and not treated for parasites, the cham dies after 4 weeks. Approximately every 10 days the eggs in the feces hatch and since their in an enclosure they re-infest the host, overloading it to death.But victor cannot get her what she really wants so no profit there to make up for the loss and nobody is reimbursing him for the mis-identified cham so he backs out on the deal and sends back the second payment and tells debbie he will send back the first after she sends back the cham. bad move, beginner move, but ripping her off? Like I stated before a well known reputable FLCHAMS. sold flapjacks for $110 shipped, MT Meru (no longer available on site) for $150 shipped. Now they are going to be much more believe me. Forked tongue what will you do when you sell one of your prized possesions that you think is the blueprint of what a buttercorn should look like. you send it halfway across the country and when your customer gets it. hes not happy he says its not at all what you described it too be so you ask him to send it back for a full refund. he sends it back and you feel it's a great snake, that guy is nuts. Who eats the shipping both ways on that transaction? Say fifty for overnight plus heatpaks and styro etc, each way. Who eats that $100 bucks. Victor ripped off no one here, he backed out of a lousy deal and got castrated for it. Debbie never mentioned that the $35 cleared, That the cham died in her care till now. She is out $112 for a flapjack cham That was worth close to that. Victor was wrong for agreeing to a bad deal. many young guys in the biz make the same mistake Victor was wrong for running his mouth. another noob mistake. But was anyone ripped off? NO!!!
God it sucks being right all the time.

Phil R.

 

[dondeb562]

When I purchased the cham from Victor I was told they were GOING on not already on. When Victor told me he could not get the one for me I was able to order one from reptile depot for $99. only $10 more. He reassured me that it was the right species and I believed him. I also DID state when the $31.50 cleared cause I was never asking for the full $145 back. I had no reason to think Victor did not have them as he TOLD me time and time again they were mt merus OR MY MONEY BACK. So with that said why wouldn't I trust him.I believed he was a man of his word and he turned out not to be that.

 

[Masonexotics]

After slumming around the herp world for about 30 years you tend to sit back and see what the real story is. The customer is not always right. So Jay sofaking and forked tongue get a glance at what probably happened.
Jacksoni their subspecies and many other chameleons made the Cites F1 list in june of last year. That means no more wild caught specimens will be collected for Import. F1 farm raised will be the only chams of those species to be imported. they get rare, the price, if you can find one skyrockets. Debbie finds a cham list from a new guy on ks wow dwarf jacksons for $89
Too good to be true knowing this and knowing the rarity and often misidentified species the first thing she wants is a guarantee on Mt. meru.after a few E-mails and maybe phone conversations she realizes Victor is young, not the brightest and really eager too please. The cham arrives when scheduled appearing healthy, but wrong species, go figure. Buts its a nice looking specimen and it looks gravid so she decides to keep it. Talking him into a rip off deal of $31.50 shipped post 2 or 3 said shipping was $23 leaving her with a nice cham for $8.50 being wild caught and not treated for parasites, the cham dies after 4 weeks. Approximately every 10 days the eggs in the feces hatch and since their in an enclosure they re-infest the host, overloading it to death.But victor cannot get her what she really wants so no profit there to make up for the loss and nobody is reimbursing him for the mis-identified cham so he backs out on the deal and sends back the second payment and tells debbie he will send back the first after she sends back the cham. bad move, beginner move, but ripping her off? Like I stated before a well known reputable FLCHAMS. sold flapjacks for $110 shipped, MT Meru (no longer available on site) for $150 shipped. Now they are going to be much more believe me. Forked tongue what will you do when you sell one of your prized possesions that you think is the blueprint of what a buttercorn should look like. you send it halfway across the country and when your customer gets it. hes not happy he says its not at all what you described it too be so you ask him to send it back for a full refund. he sends it back and you feel it's a great snake, that guy is nuts. Who eats the shipping both ways on that transaction? Say fifty for overnight plus heatpaks and styro etc, each way. Who eats that $100 bucks. Victor ripped off no one here, he backed out of a lousy deal and got castrated for it. Debbie never mentioned that the $35 cleared, That the cham died in her care till now. She is out $112 for a flapjack cham That was worth close to that. Victor was wrong for agreeing to a bad deal. many young guys in the biz make the same mistake Victor was wrong for running his mouth. another noob mistake. But was anyone ripped off? NO!!!
God it sucks being right all the time.

Phil R.

a very well written and well considered post BUT from what I can see the seller gacve his word. That for me is the end of the matter. He gave his word, he can either renege on that and look the scumbag or he can keep it, be rid of a problem customer and move on. for the sake of the cost of a meal out I know which i'd choose...

Here's your money M'am, i'm really very sorry about this situation. Good bye.

"drama" over.

I personally would not write off this guys clear attitude problem as a "noob mistake" he looks like he simply does not know how to handle himself in business. that may not be the case but that is how he has made himeslf appear to me and to many/most others reading i'm sure.

That a seller is more concerned about entering into a pissing contest / proving guilt than looking proffesional (and giving people faith that if a deal does go bad he won't stiff them) IMO speaks volumes about him.

 

[brrrman]

I agree with you 100% Richard sending the $85 bucks back to Debbie right from the start would would probably gotten him praise from her and another good guy rating for eating the difference. But now he will suffer from bad decision making and running his mouth. Bot the B.O.I. is here too help people who have been scammed, ripped off, robbed, all these words were used in Debbie's posts Because she truly felt that way. But looking at both sides and seeing in the pics what she got ,and what she actually paid when all the smoke cleared was she actually robbed? The snakes I did not get when I ordered from victor were western coachwhips $20 apiece. They were sold out, my money was refunded. after all this will I buy them from him when they come back in? Probably, providing this one bad ordeal was the only one on this forum.
Phil R.

 

[ForkedTung]

a very well written and well considered post BUT from what I can see the seller gacve his word. That for me is the end of the matter. He gave his word, he can either renege on that and look the scumbag or he can keep it

That for me is also the end of the matter.Brrrman, You keep going back to the money, who got the best deal...It doesn't matter! A deal was made and broken numerous times on the word of the seller, didn't know what he was selling and made promises/contracts he shouldn't have and neglected to keep promises/contracts he should have...doesn't matter if he sold her a gold bar for fifty pesos, it was his deal to make and he F'd it up every step of the way!The only thing you have in this business is you reputation and your word. Viktor has just about shot his chances of having either respected as good. It's also pretty sad that you've spent more time and effort defending his actions than he has. What does that say about him? Looks like someone over their head with a lack of business ethics, business sense and a very stubborn streak...The Lizard King was not supposed to be a " how to?" book. lol

 

[ForkedTung]

God it sucks being right all the time.Phil R.

I know EXACTLY how you feel LOL
This reminded me of something...enjoy!

 

[brrrman]

Unforetunately it is about the money

The B.O.I. is here to represent and help people who have been scammed ripped off or robbed. I posed a question directlyto you Kyle in that last post which you didnt answer. If the situation I was referring happened to you Who would eat the shipping charges? you feel you did your best to represent an animal the buyer disagrees. You think maybe there was something missed and the customer is always right, so you tell him to send that animal back.lets say the snake was a $75 dollar corn + $50 to cover shipping and packaging who eats the $100 you who thinks your snake is the best or the customer who thinks its not what he really wanted.

 

[ForkedTung]

The B.O.I. is here to represent and help people who have been scammed ripped off or robbed. I posed a question directlyto you Kyle in that last post which you didnt answer. If the situation I was referring happened to you Who would eat the shipping charges? you feel you did your best to represent an animal the buyer disagrees. You think maybe there was something missed and the customer is always right, so you tell him to send that animal back.lets say the snake was a $75 dollar corn + $50 to cover shipping and packaging who eats the $100 you who thinks your snake is the best or the customer who thinks its not what he really wanted.

Phil, I didn't see where it was addressed to me?
I'm not sure I completely understand your question, but I'll give it a shot.

you feel you did your best to represent an animal the buyer disagrees. You think maybe there was something missed and the customer is always right, so you tell him to send that animal back.

First there is no "feel you did your best" in this business or any other for that matter. When I buy something I don't want to rely on the sellers feelings or in this case complete lack of knowledge! It is very clear at this point that the wrong animal was sent, If I were to be so ignorant ( or if I sent a mis-sexed animal, a much more common occurrence) I would eat the shipping both ways. Why is my ignorance the customers fault?

You think maybe there was something missed and the customer is always right,

obviously this is NOT always true, but definitely a good stance to take when things could go either way, just like this situation.

so you tell him to send that animal back.lets say the snake was a $75 dollar corn + $50 to cover shipping and packaging who eats the $100 you who thinks your snake is the best or the customer who thinks its not what he really wanted.

My math puts $75 + $50 = 125$, I'm not sure where you're getting $100??? Although it doesn't matter what the snake cost ( in your isolated instance here) because I'm getting it back, so I eat the shipping and I'm out $50 with my reputation and my word intact .
Although looking at how many times Victor said " it has to be shipped back alive" for someone not to think that was a setup for a scam would be a sucker in my book! Debbie certainly wasn't going to do that, and she wisely didn't!
It appears he agreed to let her keep the "wrong" cham at a very low price, Victor's bad.
He sent the wrong one ( forget that he's the middleman, that's the least of his responsibilities) Victor's bad
He decided to end the initial deal for whatever reason Victor's bad again!
He decided this was everyone elses fault, attacked the forum then disappeared Victor's bad again and again
He has kept the money from the original deal if it looks like a thief and it acts like a thief.......

 

[ophidile]

It really depends on the degree of misrepresentation.

There's "I sent you a really nice okeetee" and "no it's practically a normal corsnake" for traits that are multiallelic and/or purely looks based. In that case it's up for debate. Usually people exchange photos beforehand so there's not really much doubt here, although I guess sometimes when it comes to phtoomanips and beardies (that can apparently change color depending on mood and environment) there could be questions on who deserves to pay for shipping.

Then there's sending the wrong gene. For example, I would be pretty pissed if I bought a "cinder" corn and received a ghost or a charcoal. ~because that is a different and far more expensive gene~ even if the looks are similar. And in that case the seller should definitely eat the shipping costs to refund or send the correct animal.

Sending the wrong species is even worse. What if the buyer was trying to get a captive breeding effort started? Would a flapjack and a mt meru even breed? Wouldn't those be hybrid babies that no one would want? Wrong species, seller should most definitely eat the shipping costs. How is this even a question?

 

[ophidile]

Phil, I didn't see where it was addressed to me?
I'm not sure I completely understand your question, but I'll give it a shot.

First there is no "feel you did your best" in this business or any other for that matter. When I buy something I don't want to rely on the sellers feelings or in this case complete lack of knowledge! It is very clear at this point that the wrong animal was sent, If I were to be so ignorant ( or if I sent a mis-sexed animal, a much more common occurrence) I would eat the shipping both ways. Why is my ignorance the customers fault?

obviously this is NOT always true, but definitely a good stance to take when things could go either way, just like this situation.


My math puts $75 + $50 = 125$, I'm not sure where you're getting $100??? Although it doesn't matter what the snake cost ( in your isolated instance here) because I'm getting it back, so I eat the shipping and I'm out $50 with my reputation and my word intact .
Although looking at how many times Victor said " it has to be shipped back alive" for someone not to think that was a setup for a scam would be a sucker in my book! Debbie certainly wasn't going to do that, and she wisely didn't!
It appears he agreed to let her keep the "wrong" cham at a very low price, Victor's bad.
He sent the wrong one ( forget that he's the middleman, that's the least of his responsibilities) Victor's bad
He decided to end the initial deal for whatever reason Victor's bad again!
He decided this was everyone elses fault, attacked the forum then disappeared Victor's bad again and again
He has kept the money from the original deal if it looks like a thief and it acts like a thief.......

I agree with most of what you said here, though I wanted to point out that the $100 came from the cost to ship the corn out and then to ship it back.