Bad Guy Chaos Reptiles and Pet Supply, Dan Peck and Josh Stone

[Juggalo Jay]

So Juggalo Jay, your saying that they are good to do business with if you don't give them any opportunity to rip you off..... But if you give them a chance they'll rob you blind?

I don't buy into all that "locks just keep an honest man honest" talk. An honest man wouldn't be going door to door looking for one that's unlocked.

Besides, what about the animals that are sick due to lack of proper care? How hard is it to keep a Leopard Gecko at the proper calcium levels. A spaghetti sauce lid with a little calcium in it isn't really that complicated.

First thing, I'm not in the business to let anyone rip me off. You say he is a bad guy, and I said he paid me before I could log into paypal. Unless I'm dealing face to face I take no chances.

Second thing, I never said I have to do that or they would rob me blind. Dont put words in my mouth.

Third and last thing, when your in business buying and selling there is a chance you could be buying someones junk or sick animals. I have bought sick animals before. It sounded like to me he really did not want to sell you the gecko to start with. I would do my best not to sell a sick animal. Its never good for return customers, and business. However it does happen even to the best of them!

 

[garweft]

I think you need to go back up and read post #9 from lpcad again. Pay particular attention to the last 4 paragraphs. Josh was shown a gecko that he had sold someone that had obvious problems and played it off like it was nothing. He didn't offer to buy it back, he didn't offer to replace it with a like animal, as it turns out he went ahead and gave his blessing for it to be used as a breeder.

And what does that say about them as animal dealers if somehow they bought the gecko in that condition (without noticing it), set it up and was raising it as a breeder (without noticing it), and then sold it to a loyal customer (without noticing it)? How can I trust them to notice symptoms of IBD, mites, URI, or mouthrot.

And worst of all when it was their fault that they didn't notice it, they didn't offer any type of resolution.

 

[DAND]

First thing, I'm not in the business to let anyone rip me off.

Nor am I (but then again, who is?). The similarities between you and I stops there though, because I would not show support to anyone who is known to rip others off. Especially if the transaction was nothing special, not even worthy of you posting a “Good Guy” thread about. I mean come on, I can only guess you and Dan traded e-mails and / or spoke on the phone, came to an agreement on the price for the animals he wanted and he paid you. Now just because he paid you prior to you logging into pay-pal doesn’t make him a good guy. Not only am I not in the business of letting anyone rip me off, I am not in the business of supporting or condoning others who rip other people off. I see that you have not posted about the person(s) that have sold you sick animals.

You say he is a bad guy, and I said he paid me before I could log into paypal. Actually you said:

He paid me in full, and quick!

Which would be what anyone would do if they wanted to make a purchase. Move quick or someone else may buy it before you do.

Unless I'm dealing face to face I take no chances.

I was dealing face to face and Dan lied right to my face. Then commenced to lie about me to others.

Third and last thing, when your in business buying and selling there is a chance you could be buying someones junk or sick animals. I have bought sick animals before.

Would you still show support for those people who sold you the sick animals you purchased? Say you came across a thread here on Fauna stating the people you received the sick animals from were “Good Guys”, would you not tell the others here of the sick animals you received from this person or persons? Obviously not since your 5 total posts have not made any mention of this/these person(s).

It sounded like to me he really did not want to sell you the gecko to start with.

What lines are you reading between? How would James have known of their “breeding stock” had Josh not told him of them? As I stated before, Josh’s knowledge of animals and their proper husbandry is very limited. In my opinion it would come as no surprise to me if both Dan and Josh were aware of the gecko’s condition and sold it anyhow. Then again when their breeding stock was on the two lower shelves in the shop proper for a few months without any heat source, not fed on a regular basis and without calcium being provided, it is not a surprise that the health of the geckos would suffer.

I would do my best not to sell a sick animal.

But if you weren’t up to your best would you then indeed sell a sick animal? If I were to have a sick animal I certainly would not sell it. Then again, I have very strict rules when it comes to the animals in my care. I quarantine all new arrivals regardless of whom they came from for a minimum of 3 months. Versus the way I have witnessed Chaos receiving an order on Friday and those same animals being on their table for sale the very next day at a show.

Its never good for return customers, and business. However it does happen even to the best of them!

Actually the best of them DO NOT sell sick animals. The best of them maintain their animals properly and by the off chance or mishap one does get sick or hurt they would NOT knowingly sell it to anyone. Then again, Chaos is far from the best of them in many aspects.

 

[coltrane.antithesis]

I was going to buy from these guys, and by buy, I mean a lot. The prices were good. It's good to see that I found out now before I endorsed in buying their animals. What places are safe to buy from these days? I emailed chaos, and they seemed alright, but clearly it's the opposite. I'm fairly new to forums, but not reptiles- and have never committed in the online buying of animals- how safe is it really? That's a side question (answers welcome via PM/email), but regardless, thanks to everyone out there making it known for people like me what is safe and what isn't.

-Brandon

 

[AvandisFifth187]

It seems to me that Dan is being brought down by this Josh guy.. surely they could improve their standards of business and animal care, but sometimes things slip past your better judgment.

Has anyone had problems with gift certificates? I've had an issue with them before of not returning change from a purchase with a gift certificate. I understand some stores hold that policy, but in my view somebody payed money for them, so that money should be returned or at least be given store credit after the purchase. Not a huge issue, and other than that I have not had any problems with Chaos, given I haven't had much business with them anyways.

Cj Algeri

 

[critical bill]

It seems to me that Dan is being brought down by this Josh guy.. surely they could improve their standards of business and animal care, but sometimes things slip past your better judgment.

sometime things slip past your better judgment?

Like..writing a check when you do not have sufficient funds in your account to cover the amount?

Thats not bad judgment. That is fraud and its a crime.

 

[AvandisFifth187]

Yes it is a crime, but I was referring more to their other business practices (selling sick animals, etc.). At this point, just from what I've read and from what I've heard around, it would seem prudent to move into a place where rent was more affordable (even though I understand the stress of moving out so soon after moving in would be hell), and possibly downsizing the business temporarily so as to save up funds sufficient enough to manage a full-sized busniness again without the kinds of troubles that have been reported on this site so far. Perhaps it's just bad business dealings or misorganization, which can both be fixed, and if so let us hope that they have seen this thread and are working on such problems. I'll admit though, it would be very helpful if one of them would post up on here to explain things a bit.

 

[DAND]

It seems to me that Dan is being brought down by this Josh guy.. surely they could improve their standards of business and animal care, but sometimes things slip past your better judgment.

Has anyone had problems with gift certificates? I've had an issue with them before of not returning change from a purchase with a gift certificate. I understand some stores hold that policy, but in my view somebody payed money for them, so that money should be returned or at least be given store credit after the purchase. Not a huge issue, and other than that I have not had any problems with Chaos, given I haven't had much business with them anyways.

Cj Algeri

One would have to possess better judgment prior to something being able to slip past it for that statement to be true. Dan and Josh are two peas in a pod. I saw absolutely no difference in the way their shop was maintained during the time Josh was running the shop and when Dan took over. (During the warmer months Josh was running the shop while Dan did seasonal work. When the weather changed it was Dan’s turn to run the shop.) They both have high hopes but neither possesses the drive it takes to even maintain the animals, let alone clean the shop. The only thing I have witnessed is them wanting to turn a quick buck with minimal to no effort. And depending on which one you are talking to, it's the others fault for their problems.

Yes it is a crime, but I was referring more to their other business practices (selling sick animals, etc.). At this point, just from what I've read and from what I've heard around, it would seem prudent to move into a place where rent was more affordable (even though I understand the stress of moving out so soon after moving in would be hell), and possibly downsizing the business temporarily so as to save up funds sufficient enough to manage a full-sized busniness again without the kinds of troubles that have been reported on this site so far. Perhaps it's just bad business dealings or misorganization, which can both be fixed, and if so let us hope that they have seen this thread and are working on such problems. I'll admit though, it would be very helpful if one of them would post up on here to explain things a bit.

Actually they have moved but that is not the problem. Financial troubles aside they still do not possess the means to run this type of business. The lack of care and knowledge of the animals would still be there regardless. As for them posting here, seeing as they are both members (don’t you like the duality of meanings for that word?) here and have both logged in since this thread has been started says they either don’t care or they are embarrassed that they have been found out and think that it will go away if they ignore it long enough. Anyhow, what is there to explain? How could they (truthfully) explain or excuse the poor animal husbandry or the writing of bad checks? Their posting would only dig the hole they are in just that much deeper.

 

[reptile_jones]

Do they do any of the reptile shows? (Ohio or Taylor MI) If so how would i ID them so that i know to walk past their table. I don't support thieves!!!

 

[DAND]

Do they do any of the reptile shows? (Ohio or Taylor MI) If so how would i ID them so that i know to walk past their table. I don't support thieves!!!

They used to do the shows (Cleveland, Columbus and Taylor) but not have been lately (since writing me a bad check). The last thing I heard was they were only doing the Hamburg and Indy shows since the vendors and promoters of the other shows are ganging up on them. (insert crying smilie here) Look for the sign on my table (WARNING DO NOT extend credit to or accept checks from Chaos Reptiles) at the Cleveland and Taylor shows and if they are there I will point them out to you so you can avoid them.

 

[reptile_jones]

They used to do the shows (Cleveland, Columbus and Taylor) but not have been lately (since writing me a bad check). The last thing I heard was they were only doing the Hamburg and Indy shows since the vendors and promoters of the other shows are ganging up on them. (insert crying smilie here) Look for the sign on my table (WARNING DO NOT extend credit to or accept checks from Chaos Reptiles) at the Cleveland and Taylor shows and if they are there I will point them out to you so you can avoid them.

I know who you are. I got a female creamsicle corn from you a few year back.

Not the Indy show. I was think of going to the next show. I'll just have to remember their names.

 

[AvandisFifth187]

DAND, I don't think anyone needs to look for that sign... your stand is truly one of a kind (in a good way). As for chaos, unless enough evidence is built against them for some sort of legal action or until they fix what they have screwed up and continue upkeep of their shop and business, we really can't do much.

 

[DAND]

DAND, I don't think anyone needs to look for that sign... your stand is truly one of a kind (in a good way). As for chaos, unless enough evidence is built against them for some sort of legal action or until they fix what they have screwed up and continue upkeep of their shop and business, we really can't do much.

Nonetheless, I will continue to have the sign up to inform others. I wouldn’t want anyone else to be taken advantage of by Chaos as Neil, James and I were. I also would not be surprised to find out that there are others who were taken advantage of too who have not seen this thread or posted yet. As for them fixing things and maintaining their animals and business in proper fashion, I hope they do but I have very little confidence in their ability to do so.

 

[DavidBeard]

If I am not mistaken, these guys vended a show in Morehead, KY last year and kept trying to sell me venomous snakes and crocodilians knowing full well they are illegal in KY.

They sound like great charachters....NOT.

 

[DAND]

If I am not mistaken, these guys vended a show in Morehead, KY last year and kept trying to sell me venomous snakes and crocodilians knowing full well they are illegal in KY.

They sound like great charachters....NOT.

Sounds like Dan to me. He deals a lot in both venomous and crocodilians and I have seen his disregard for rules and laws on many occasions.

 

[chaosad]

***spell check off***

I have been aware of this thread for a few days but have had limited access to the internet or i would have posted sooner.

For everyone reading this, Dave Grunning has help josh and I tremendously at our shop, I still thank his deeds and feel endebted to him for all his help. Dave and (my buisness partner) did have a "falling out". I tried to the best of my abilities to keep a working relationship with dave. Dave was our cricket and worm dealer for a while and he extended us credit often. Dave came to drop off crickets at the shop one day and we didnt have the cash available and funds where pending. I wrote dave a check uncertian if it would cash or not (funds pending). The check didnt clear, dave came and returned the check and took the crickets. dave provided me with a balance we owed him a few days later, we made the cash ready and when he had the means of transportation he came and got the money we owed him. At that point chaos reptile's finacial debt with dave was settled.

I due order animals from neil golli from time to time. I have a store to keep stocked and Neil's animals are always healthy, feeding and attractive. I had an order that i placed before the december hamburg show with neil. I asked him if it was ok to give him a post dated check for the animals. he said it was ok. We where anticipating a better show and would have had neil paid the tuesday after the show. It did not work that way. I did have an outstandig balance with neil, he seemed more than willing to work with me on our debt. As money became available it has been handed over to him. Neil has been payed in full.

A lot of dealers will agree with me that sometimes it takes a bit longer to pay than aticipated, it sucks but it happens.

I ALWAYS pay my bills, not always as soon and as quickly as i would like but they do and will cotinue to be payed no matter what.

the check we wrote neil bouced, i payed the return check fee and I told him that i will hook him up with some animals or some extra cash for his patiece and inconvienince.

Gary O!! Did the customer with the "66% het cinn" that you have first hand kowledge about mention the fact that i told him it may be a het if there was a thing, but not with a co-dom? did this customer also mention that the ball python he bought was a sizeable female and was sold as a normal to him for $30-35 bucks? I wrote on the cup what it could be so he can check it out. I dont think he was "taken" in that deal.

I try to represent the animals I have to the best of my knowledge.

James, I remeber the call i got from josh about selling the leo. I did not know about the leg or the metabloic bone disease. we keep breeders and potential breeders, the only time they are handled is when they are shifted into another container during cage cleanings and then back again. The leg was an over look and i dont think josh realised it was M.B.D when you brought it back. I also didnt know you where unhappy with your purchase. we have spoken many times since you bought the leo and i never heard metion of it. We also cherish your buisness and have had a gift certificate at the shop since around christmas for you but we havnt seen you there.... for obvious reasons now. If you are still uhappy at least allow us to make it right. you have been a great customer of ours and i feel badly about the leo. If you let us make it right, that would make me feel better about this and if not i can understand why.



Josh's part of this compay involves resposabilities other than the animals, he does have limited knowlege with the animals and he will be the first to tell you that. That is no seceret. Josh is learning a lot but that is why josh and i have a partnership, he does one end of things and I do the animals. Thats what makes us partners.

The last part I am going to touch on is the venomous and crocodilians thing.

I have never once brought or attempted to sell venomous snakes or crocodilians to anyone at any of the kentucky shows. To vend those shows we have to list everything we bring and the number of each species and fish and wildlife will check. We also stopped vending the kentucky shows over a year ago. The only crocadilians I sell are baby american alligators, those are sold at the shop and at shows,they are rarely shipped and we follow all local, state and federal laws with them. When a person buys a gator, they are informed of the size and if the animal becomes to much for them to handle ( wich always happens) I will always take the animal back so it is not released or killed. from time to time i offer other crocodillians for sale but sell them within the law. I will not go to prison for violatig the lacey act..... it is simply not worth it.

My dealings with venomous snakes is more of a passion than any form of buisness. I Will not sell anything venomous to anyone i dont know without verifying thier age and checking references. I talk in depth with people at the hot shows to make sure of thier abilities. I am a delta verified shipper and I follow all shipping regulations, all state and federal laws and i will absolutly not sell a snake to a person under 18, if i dont know the person then i wont sell if they are under 21. I love working with venomous snakes, thats what i do and i will not risk an already unpopular hobby to further critisism and help perpetuate making it illegal completely.

We try to make sure our customers are happy. I wish we could keep every customer and vendor/dealer/breeder happy. we cant do a lot if our customers dont make us aware they are unhappy. We cant please them all but we will try to.

We are doing everything to the best of our abilities and we are making arrangments to move the shop to a place that will better acomadate our customers, animals and ourselves as a buisness. getting started retail wise with all the added overhead is not an easy chore and we are making improvemets as a buisnes. If anyone feels wronged or taken advatege of please let us know and continue to do so, so we can do what we can for our customers to make sure your happy.

For anyone who feels they have been wronged in any way ad wishes not to do buisness with us, we understand. For those who still wish to do buisness with us, that feel they have been wronged thank you for understanding and allowing to make things right.

Again I have limited computer access at the moment, i will post again if i need to when i can.

Daniel Peck
Chaos Reptiles and Supply LLC.

 

[TripleMoonsExotic]

Gary O!! Did the customer with the "66% het cinn" that you have first hand kowledge about mention the fact that i told him it may be a het if there was a thing, but not with a co-dom? did this customer also mention that the ball python he bought was a sizeable female and was sold as a normal to him for $30-35 bucks? I wrote on the cup what it could be so he can check it out. I dont think he was "taken" in that deal.

Why would you write on the cup "66% het Cinny" at all when you know that is incorrect information? That's flat out false advertising. If you stated exactly what you posted here to the buyer (who apparently isn't very fluent in genetics), I'm sure they didn't understand what you were talking about as it's double talk and just believed what was on the cup. If you want to get technical, the Cinny is the het and the Super Cinny is the homo of the mutation. Either way you put it, saying 66% het Cinny is flat out lying...So is calling any normal sibling a het for a co-dominant mutation.

 

[TripleMoonsExotic]

Just wanted to add...

If you don't know what you're talking about in regards to genetics, don't say anything. You can't claim ignorance. Your customers rely on you to know what you're talking about in regards to the species you sell. If you don't know what you're selling, don't sell it. Educate yourself on the ins and outs of the species you sell so that in the end, you don't look stupid or like a lier.

 

[Mooing Tricycle]

Why would you write on the cup "66% het Cinny" at all when you know that is incorrect information? That's flat out false advertising. If you stated exactly what you posted here to the buyer (who apparently isn't very fluent in genetics), I'm sure they didn't understand what you were talking about as it's double talk and just believed what was on the cup. If you want to get technical, the Cinny is the het and the Super Cinny is the homo of the mutation. Either way you put it, saying 66% het Cinny is flat out lying...So is calling any normal sibling a het for a co-dominant mutation.

To me.... This part stands out, as meaning it could not be HET for a codom animal.

" Gary O!! Did the customer with the "66% het cinn" that you have first hand kowledge about mention the fact that i told him it may be a het if there was a thing, but not with a co-dom?"

Ill read this thread through, further for now. To get a better idea of what is going on here. * will be back*

 

[Mooing Tricycle]

So... Dan.

Youve really got much to cover. Right now, i think you scumbag. Writing bad checks and not educating your employees/partner on the care of animals that are being sold. How hard is it really to care for a gecko, or a few snakes? Seriously..... ( EVERYONE who takes a check, should be getting the persons DRIVERS LICENSE NUMBER and DATE OF BIRTH, as well as REAL phone number and address!!! If you get a bad check, SEND IT TO THE POLICE! They WILL deal with it)

You said
"Gary O!! Did the customer with the "66% het cinn" that you have first hand kowledge about mention the fact that i told him it may be a het if there was a thing, but not with a co-dom? did this customer also mention that the ball python he bought was a sizeable female and was sold as a normal to him for $30-35 bucks? I wrote on the cup what it could be so he can check it out. I dont think he was "taken" in that deal."

WHAT "exactly", did you write on that cup then? Since YOU say that you didnt write something could be het for a codom trait. Because, im more apt to believe Gary ( what reason does he have to lie here about this? what could he gain?), but id like to hear what YOU say... regardless. I think depending on the size of the female, 30-35 bucks is quite reasonable, and if i were the customer i wouldnt complain so much... BUT if you said the animal might be a het, and it has NO CHANCE at being a het, YOU would be a liar.

If youre such a new business, how the HECK can you not please customers? Id imagine once you were settled in and been around for awhile, but how the heck are you having issues already? Why the heck are you writing several bad checks, and making orders when you DONT HAVE THE MONEY? If you didnt have the money to buy the crickets, or pay for Neils order either... Maybe you should be sending YOUR customers to THEM so THEY can get the money straight from them, instead of dealing with a middle man who obviously does not have his crap together?