ShipYourReptiles.com

[Thomas E]

That may be right, but I haven't been around for fifteen years.. I hope they are able to answer these very legitimate concerns soon. To anyone unbiased looking here, it seems really clear (to a reasonable doubt) that there is no agreement with UPS. If there is a written agreement with someone who works for UPS but he has required that they not let anyone see it (so that they won't wave it in the face of their workers) that's just exactly like saying you have an agreement with us, that we won't allow to be enforceable. It's like saying, you have an agreement with us which we don't want our employees to know about. It's like saying for all intents and purposes that there is no agreement. I realize that some Fedex employees don't know the facts on their policies either, but at least we can show them, post etc, the evidence that we are right.. The very purpose of a waiver is to wave it in the face of the employees. Otherwise what's it for practically?

So I say again, I hope they can clear this up, especially if they are the kind of company you vouch them to be.

 

[shrap]

Sammy,
I'm not sure I see this thread as an unwarranted attack... Can you not agree that there are some questions and concerns that need to be addressed?

I think this whole thing was handled very poorly. And not by Pro Exotics. That is what I think. Robyn's word alone on having a contract with UPS is good enough for me. He has earned that much. And I understand completely UPS not wanting a contract between Pro Exotics and UPS to be of public record. I am sure there are things in that contract that are exclusive to Pro Exotics and that UPS does not want seen by the entire world. Business contracts are generally confidential and private.

And as far as some UPS employees not knowing about this contract/waiver..... the exact same crap happens at Fed Ex to this day with their employees not knowing about Fed Ex reptile waivers. It really should not come as a surprise to anyone that it is the same way at UPS.

With any new start up there are going to be glitches that need addressed and things that can be done better. Given time I am sure Robyn will take care of these things. But for people to demand to see business contracts is ridiculous to say the least. I would tell anyone to kiss my ass for even thinking they have any kind of right to see my business agreements with other companies/individuals. And I would tell anyone that questioned my word when I say I do indeed have a contract in place to kiss my ass as well and be done with them.

 

[Thomas E]

Their word alone did not prevent the packages from being stopped (more than once) and turned over to animal control. One's word is great, but the world we live in is a little trickier.

 

[shrap]

I realize that some Fedex employees don't know the facts on their policies either, but at least we can show them, post etc, the evidence that we are right.. The very purpose of a waiver is to wave it in the face of the employees. Otherwise what's it for practically?

You obviously have never had anyone at Fed Ex hold up your shipment even with a copy of your waiver in with the air bill. It takes many phone calls from the Fed Ex employee to Fed Ex corporate and to their legal department and to their live animal desk before they will believe that waiver is real.

 

[Thomas E]

If that's what it takes, but we don't even have THAT here. How many phone calls will it take at UPS in this instance? And at the end of the day, the package didn't ship.

I'm not saying it's instant I'm just saying there's an actual agreement that you can take in. If you don't see the value in that, we just won't agree I guess.

 

[shrap]

Thomas,

As I said, there are things that certainly need to be worked out. On both Pro Exotics and UPS's end to get this running smoothly. And I am sure if Pro Exotics track record is any indication then the problems will be worked out to the high standard that Pro Exotics has came to represent or they will drop the program with USP completely.

 

[TripleMoonsExotic]

Sorry to interrupt the debate...SYR did follow through with their promise to Char to reimburse her for the Animal Control fees. The check was received today.

 

[WebSlave]

A letter does exist, it is here on my desk. If you have no faith in our reputation or integrity on this issue, there is nothing more I can do about that.

Robyn,
Would "the letter" be the one from corporate that everyone is hoping for, that admits to the exemption from their policy, allowing snake shipping under SYR?

Robyn,

Can you please post a copy of that letter?

Nope, I am not allowed to.

OK, that is fine, I believe most people here would be inclined to believe your word about this, Robyn. But I believe an accurate and complete reply would certainly help in that regard.

Is that letter you have on your desk from UPS from their CORPORATE offices and signed by a significantly high level member of their management staff?

UPS does accept packages on a daily basis containing live harmless snakes that may or may not be known to UPS corporate. That was the case with me for around a year as well, with the knowledge and acceptance of UPS local and regional level staff, but CORPORATE stopped that cold. What people are trying to find out is if this exemption you have is authorized at the CORPORATE level of UPS and not via merely a local or regional office. An overly ambitious sales representative will pretty much say ANYTHING to land a sale, which appears to have been the case in my situation.

I'll be quite honest about it, I don't much like how UPS does these informal exemptions with their shipping regulations at all. We all know many dealers have been shipping live snakes via UPS for years. These businesses are allowed via the "turn a blind eye" policy to ship snakes through them (I suspect your own company did so for years, as have others of note), and yet others are discriminated against by being refused the same service. At least with FedEx, as long as you pass their requirements, they really don't care who you are and make exemptions to the detriment of their competitors.

So yes, people are entirely justified to have some misgivings and doubts about UPS in general, and not YOU specifically. I know I damn well do.

So the question that people are asking that I believe NEEDS to be answered by you, Robyn, is:

Is this exemption letter you say you have on your desk giving SYR (and the people using that service) the ability to ship live harmless snakes via UPS via an exemption granted by the corporate offices of UPS? Yes or No.

And to carry this thought through a step further, if this has in fact been approved through the corporate offices of UPS, and this is a pilot program, does this program have the potential, by design, to lead to a general reversal of their prohibition against shipping live snakes for EVERYONE? Quite frankly, if the answer to this one is "NO", then I would have to ask, "WHY NOT?" And "Who decides who gets this sort of preferential treatment from UPS?"

 

[shrap]

Quite frankly, if the answer to this one is "NO", then I would have to ask, "WHY NOT?" And "Who decides who gets this sort of preferential treatment from UPS?"

Rich, I spent roughly 5 years with UPS. Starting as a union sorter at the local hub and moving up into management at the same hub. We had endless "exceptions" with countless different companies. They have always been flaky about this and there was never a set standard in the approval procedure. Nor was their a central number for us employees to call to verify exceptions of any kind. You could literally spend half a shift and 25 phone calls tracking the info down. And to be perfectly honest we rarely bothered and just sent the crap through. After all, at a sort facility the number one goal is to get packages in one door and out the other as fast as possible with as few employees as possible. SNAP THAT WHIP!!

As far as who decides.... you already know the answer to that. Who ever is up high enough that they control some of the puppet strings. And yes you are at their whim. There is no set standard to their approval process. At least there wasnt one 10-12 years ago.

I know none of that makes how UPS does things right or is even good business, but that is how it was or still is.

 

[jasballs]

Robyn, Best of luck with this Bro!! I'll be using it real soon.. Hell every snake I have bought from the Big breeders was shipped by UPS.. This thread is Friggin Funny!

 

[KJUN]

If they have a NDA, they've failed miserable in not telling people they can ship snakes via UPS.....lol. Maybe the waiver states how much of a discount THEY get for this service (hence why they don't want to produce it), but I don't think anyone would care if that particular number was masked.

If NDA (even with its own employees) is why UPS stops packages because even THEY don't know they are shipping them, how can ANYONE defend using this process right now? It's basically Russian Roulette with this service IF this is what is going on. Come on, comparing live animal shipments to a phone service NDA is pretty weak....lol. Telling Person B that a service supplied to Person A doesn't exist is OK.....stopping Person C's snakes mid-shipment is another matter. If this is due to a NDA, then the whole thing is more stupid than anything else i've thought of on my own....and Chad isn't stupid!

KJ

 

[callak]

I wasn't comparing the 2, I stated such. It is the concept that was the point. An NDA doesn't necassarily mean that people can't know about it, it can mean a variety of different things. Take Beta testing for example. The general public knows and sometimes is purposely told about it to get people to apply to be a tester. What the public doesn't know and what the NDA covers is the content inside that is being tested. In this instance I would assume that it covers the workings of the program. I.E. procedures, policies, exemptions and discounts. I have no idea if this is truly the case with Pro Exotics. I am merely speculating from what I have read from Robyn's responses. I was not trying to defend Robyn, I was just trying to add a little explanation as to what might be going on.

I completely agree there needs to be more communication between UPS and Pro Exotics in terms of getting problems fixed when they happen. This needs to be their top priority. There is no excuse for an animal to have to go to animal control. There needs to be someone who he can call at corporate that has the power to call and make the shipment go through without anymore of a delay.

I would like to see his reponses to Rich's questions, if the letter is not from corporate I will not be using his services. Any NDA or Contract in an instance like this would have to come from the corporate level or it would be worthless.

 

[robyn@Pro Exotics]

Is this exemption letter you say you have on your desk giving SYR (and the people using that service) the ability to ship live harmless snakes via UPS via an exemption granted by the corporate offices of UPS? Yes or No.

And to carry this thought through a step further, if this has in fact been approved through the corporate offices of UPS, and this is a pilot program, does this program have the potential, by design, to lead to a general reversal of their prohibition against shipping live snakes for EVERYONE? Quite frankly, if the answer to this one is "NO", then I would have to ask, "WHY NOT?" And "Who decides who gets this sort of preferential treatment from UPS?"

Rich, you have boiled it down to easy simple questions, with no drama : )

Yes, the exception letter is from UPS Corporate. And YES, the goal all along has been to get NON-VENOMOUS snakes added to the UPS tariff, absolutely! Success with SYR, showing the real viability of the non-venomous snake shipping market will hopefully open up non-venomous snake shipping to the whole industry. And at that point it will be an easily referenced piece of info in the tariff, and on the site.

We don't just offer a great rate, we offer a great service, as well as proper shipping supplies, and the informational tools on successful snake and reptile shipping. Having other folks shipping snakes doesn't affect us much at all, we are a business selling a great service, so being able to open up non-venomous snake shipping to the hobby is great for all of us.

FedEx has made HUGE inroads into snake and reptile shipping in the last 5 or 6 years. They have taken a giant piece of the shipping business. I know FedEx has its fans, but we are big UPS fans, always have been, and they have just done a tremendous job for us over the years. One of our goals is to get back a significant chunk of that business. As well as-

ShipYourAquatics.com
ShipYourBicycles.com
ShipYourRC.com
ShipYourAudio.com
ShipYourSneakers.com
ShipYourSkateboards.com
ShipYourJewelry.com
ShipYourCrafts.com
ShipYourFiber.com

and on and on. We are no fly by night operation, we are passionate (and long time) reptile breeders that are venturing into a new area, but with the same committment and passion. We thought the reptile industry would be the best place to start with our ShipYour... model, and we have had a phenomenal start so far.

 

[Chandler Reptiles]

I've used it and I will continue to use it.

 

[critical bill]

Could you open a...ShipYourExwife? And what would it cost to ship her to Siberia?

 

[WebSlave]

Robyn called me this evening (Thanks, Robyn!) and read me the entire letter from the corporate offices of UPS. I am convinced that it is legitimate and a genuine effort if underway to get UPS to accept live non venomous snakes. As the wording of the letter precludes Robyn from posting that letter I agree that it is not in the best interests of this project for him to jeopardize his relationship with UPS by defying a stipulation of that agreement.

 

[Shadera]

Thank you Rich, for checking that out. Hopefully it satifies the naysayers.

 

[E2MacPets]

Great news, indeed!

 

[Diego Velarde]

I think this whole thing was handled very poorly. And not by Pro Exotics. That is what I think. Robyn's word alone on having a contract with UPS is good enough for me. He has earned that much. And I understand completely UPS not wanting a contract between Pro Exotics and UPS to be of public record. I am sure there are things in that contract that are exclusive to Pro Exotics and that UPS does not want seen by the entire world. Business contracts are generally confidential and private.

And as far as some UPS employees not knowing about this contract/waiver..... the exact same crap happens at Fed Ex to this day with their employees not knowing about Fed Ex reptile waivers. It really should not come as a surprise to anyone that it is the same way at UPS.

With any new start up there are going to be glitches that need addressed and things that can be done better. Given time I am sure Robyn will take care of these things. But for people to demand to see business contracts is ridiculous to say the least. I would tell anyone to kiss my ass for even thinking they have any kind of right to see my business agreements with other companies/individuals. And I would tell anyone that questioned my word when I say I do indeed have a contract in place to kiss my ass as well and be done with them.

I completely agree,
Its all about what kind of deals your Account Sales Representative can get for you. The competition is out there and UPS and FedEx want your business. i.e Two companies make the same product and use the same shipping company to ship their packages but one of the companies has a better/lower shipping rate than the other company, how come? They got a badass account representative! But you wont see that company or the shipping provider screaming it to the whole world how good of a deal they just got.
No company is perfect but what makes a company great is to aim for perfection. There will be late, lost ,or misplaced packages, and the probabilities are very very low, but it just sucks when it happens to you.

 

[Andy'sReptiles]

I know it makes me feel better

Robyn called me this evening (Thanks, Robyn!) and read me the entire letter from the corporate offices of UPS. [...]