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Bad Guy New England Aquatics...Troy, Chris, and Kelly!

Valley Dragons

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This post is in regards to my negative experience with New England Aquatics. The people involved are Troy Douglas, who is apparently the owner, Chris Ipollito, who is a co-owner, and Kelly Frenette, who helps out at the store. Bear with me, this is a bit complicated...

My interaction with NEA began on June 7th, 2009. They responded to an ad that I posted on kingsnake.com for wholesale bearded dragons. I have included a copy of the ad below:


Your classified ad entitled $18 each healthy wholesale 4 1/2 - 6\" babies!‏
From: [email protected]
Sent: Sun 6/07/09 9:20 AM
To: [email protected]
Below is a copy of your Classified ad: http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?cat=51&de=691162
-------------------------------------------------------
$18 each healthy wholesale 4 1/2 - 6\" babies!
Arkansas - we ship to continental USA

I have a mixed group of babies (het for hypos, belgium sandfire blood x dragon's den line, leatherback siblings, citrus, normals, etc., ranging from 4 1/2 - 6" long. All are healthy and well-started, eating on crickets, greens, and pellets. Live, healthy arrival is guaranteed!

Minimum order is 5, or up to 60.

I also have older babies, 6" - 8" long, for $40 each. Minimum order is 2, or up to 15.

* UPS overnight shipping is $35 for up to 20 dragons, or $45 for 21 - 60 dragons.

PayPal only, please, to [email protected].

Jamie Hough
479-857-2642

http://www.valleydragons.com




Here is a copy of the email from NEA in response to my kingsnake.com ad:

Message about: $18 each healthy wholesale 4 1/2 - 6" babies!‏
From: [email protected]
Sent: Sun 6/07/09 1:39 PM
To: [email protected]
*************
NOTE: This message was sent to you via the Kingsnake.com Classifieds. If you feel this message is fraudulent or abusive please forward it to [email protected].
NOTE: DO NOT flag this message as SPAM/JUNK as your ability to receive legitimate messages from Kingsnake.com Classifieds may be compromised
*************

yes we are an aquatics shop out of new hampshire my partner (co-owner)chris left you a voicemail today. we are interested in bying a 60 lot of the baby bearded dragons. the ones listed at 18 dollars plus 45 shipping & handling email me or give me a call back at 603-435-6109.
Thank You Troy Douglas (NEW ENGALAND AQUATICS)

----------------------------------------------
Click on (or cut and paste into you browser's
location window) the URL below to view the ad that
this message is in response to.

http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?de=691162&cat=51


----------------------------------------------
This message was sent by an unregistered or non logged in user.
This person may or may not be who they say they are.
The return address they provide may or may not be their correct address.

Sent 01:39 PM, Jun 07th, 2009 from I.P. Address 24.62.151.237/c-24-62-151-237.hsd1.nh.comcast.net




After receiving this email, I spoke with Chris Ipollito on the phone. He told me that he wished to buy all of the dragons that I had available, which at the time was 75. I agreed to ship the dragons the next day, and he agreed to promptly mail me a check after the dragons arrived.

I waited for two weeks (June 22nd) before contacting the company regarding my check, which I had not received. I spoke with Troy Douglas on the phone and he explained to me that there had been a problem with the shipment. 12 of the 75 dragons arrived DOA (I assume because of the very hot weather on my end), and a few were nipped (they were perfect when I shipped them…but I’m not going to go into that now…). He agreed to pay me for the remaining dragons, which he claimed were healthy and vibrant and doing well…in fact he informed me that he only had a few left, as he had sold the rest. I asked him why I had not been contacted when the dragons arrived DOA, and he said that his partner, Chris Apollito, was supposed to have called me. I never received the call. We ended the conversation on a friendly note. I apologized for the dragons that arrived DOA, and acknowledged that perhaps I needed to package them differently in regards to the heat. He apologized for the delay in payment, and agreed to mail me a check immediately. Here is the follow-up email from Troy:




Re: payment for wholesale dragons?‏
From: Troy Douglas ([email protected])
Sent: Tue 6/23/09 2:39 PM
To: Jamie Hough ([email protected])
yes this is Troy Douglas owner of N.E.A. and i did get the shipment of dragons and 12 were dead upone arrival as well as 6 with tails bitten partially of due to the fact they were all in 2 canvas sacks all together. Also several were dehydrated.I was waiting to see how the rest of them turned out before i sent a check out. as of today the remaining57 dragons are healthy and vibrant,even the dehydrated ones have come around .i just spoke with you and the check for972 for the 57 healthy dragons plus shipping 45 dollars is in route. Thanks Troy

--- On Mon, 6/22/09, Jamie Hough <[email protected]> wrote:

From: Jamie Hough <[email protected]>
Subject: payment for wholesale dragons?
To: [email protected]
Date: Monday, June 22, 2009, 8:16 PM
Hi! I shipped you a 75-lot of wholesale bearded dragons, which you received and signed for on June 9th. I was wondering about payment, as I have not received a check from you. I sent an invoice with the shipment. The total amount owed is $1,170.00. Please contact me tomorrow.

Thank you!

Jamie Hough (479) 857-2642
Valley Dragon Ranch
8625 SR 124
Russellville, AR 72802




Meanwhile…I received a few emails from Kelly Frenette, who helps out in the store, asking me about the bloodlines of the dragons that I had sold to Troy, and asking for pictures of the parents. Here is a copy of the emails from Kelly, with the newest email first:



RE: leatherback‏
From: Jamie Hough ([email protected])
Sent: Thu 6/25/09 4:56 PM
To: [email protected]
There were some larger "het for hypos"...they had the more normal coloring. The father is a normal, and the mother is a marketed leucistic.

Some of the smaller babies with the orange color are belgium sandfire blood x a huge female with Dragon's Den lines.

The larger orange dragons are citrus x orange sandfire/normal.

Jamie
________________________________________
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 13:59:20 -0700
From: [email protected]
Subject: RE: leatherback
To: [email protected]
do you remember what the other babies where? the other crosses you had by chance?
thanks alot

--- On Wed, 6/24/09, Jamie Hough <[email protected]> wrote:

From: Jamie Hough <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: leatherback
To: [email protected]
Date: Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 10:00 PM
The babies are from my leatherback male, "Jesse", and my orange sandfire x normal female, "Mandarin". The leatherback male is an AC Reptiles American co-dominant.

Jamie :)
________________________________________
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 14:27:27 -0700
From: [email protected]
Subject: leatherback
To: [email protected]
you recently sold a wholesale lot of 75 beardies to a shop in NH. there were leatherbacks or leatherback crosses in the bunch. do you have pics of the parents or could you tell me the lines of them? thanks
Kelly



*I finally received and deposited my check from NEA on June 30th.



By chance, I happened on to a post made about me on beardeddragon.org by Kelly on June 11th. I was quite annoyed by this post, as she lied about the dragons that I sold to Troy, and I decided to contact her. Here is the posting on beardeddragon.org. I edited out the posts from other people, as they are not really necessary:



by Kelcifer on Thu Jun 11, 2009 10:54 am
any one heard of these guys? just wondering if anyone has any info on them.

by Kelcifer on Wed Jun 17, 2009 5:00 am
sorry guys its valley dragon ranch. i reread the invoice. the dragons the shop got from them looked like they were fresh from the egg... but they did get a really nice leucstic that i should have nabbed....

by Kelcifer on Thu Jun 18, 2009 7:51 am
yeah thats the one.... the dragons we got at the shop were tiny. they looked like they were a couple weeks old and a couple looked like they didnt have their first shed yet.... but there is a leucstic at the shop i want to get.

by Kelcifer on Thu Jun 18, 2009 8:18 am
oh i completely agree with you its just the shop that i help out with ordered a whole sale lot of 75 dragons. that was nuts having all those babies at once.... but i took a couple the shop held on to a few for themselves personally and saved a few to sell. the rest went to other shops looking for beardies. but they have one that i should have taken and its turning into a leucstic. i was mad about the 60 baby dragons in one sac and 15 bigger dragon in the other in a tiny box.




Her posts were quite aggravating to me. I DID NOT sell them babies that were fresh out of the egg. These babies (see my ad above) were for the majority 4 ½” – 6” long. They also received 15 babies that were 6” – 8” long. Telling people on a forum that I sold them babies fresh out of the egg is pure slander! I decided to contact her to discuss her posts. Here are the emails:




from: Jamie Hough ([email protected])
Sent: Thu 7/02/09 5:44 PM
To: [email protected]
Hi. I have been alerted to a few negative/unfair comments that occurred recently on beardeddragon.org concerning my business. I was wondering if you were the person who posted these comments, since you contacted me about the parentage of my dragons recently. If you are not the person in question, then I sincerely apologize!

If you are unhappy with my dragons, then please come to me first rather than going to a public forum to express your dissatisfaction. I am happy to discuss this further if you have any questions.

Thank you,

Jamie Hough
Valley Dragon Ranch
479-857-2642

RE: leatherback‏
From: Cat DemonX ([email protected])
Sent: Thu 7/02/09 6:04 PM
To: [email protected]
they dragons you sent were extreamly small. You only guarenteed them three days after shipping.
not a week later a few of them died for reasons unkown. I wanted to know
if anyone else has delt with you in the past and what they
thought and if they had problems. on top of
which the shop that bought these tiny dragons was new and i dont believe they had dragon expeirance. I posted trying to figure out what
kind of business you ran and if the shop should
continue to do business with you. However since
almost a dozen dragons died i dont think we will. It was foolish of them to buy that many at once. Especially ones that tiny.
sorry about not coming to you first but i wanted to find out what kind of business i was dealing with. Besides that i dont remember anyone saying anything rude about your business.



Lie, lie, lie. The dragons were NOT extremely small. And I honored my live arrival guarantee. And according to Troy, the dragons (besides the ones that arrived DOA) were in good health 2 weeks after he received them. In addition, I don’t know where she got the 3-day guarantee idea. I only offer live arrival on wholesale. (30 day guarantee for retail). Here are more emails:



RE: leatherback‏
From: Jamie Hough ([email protected])
Sent: Thu 7/02/09 7:26 PM
To: [email protected]
Hmmm...I think you must have me confused with someone else. I sent 60 dragons that were 4 1/2 - 5 1/2" long (which is standard wholesale size). I also sent 15 that were 6 - 8" long. These were NOT tiny newborn dragons. As for large stores, I sell to California Zoological Supply and LLL Reptile. I have never had a problem with those people. I have also sold a wholesale group to Mike at crix-n-wiggles.com. I've sold to Snake Eyes Exotics. I have done countless retail sales, with many, many happy customers. I'm happy to provide more references if you like...

I have no idea what "3-day" guarantee you are talking about. I offered a live, healthy guarantee. This is standard for wholesaling. Retail dragons get a 30 day guarantee.

I contacted the owner 2 weeks after I shipped the dragons, as I had not yet received my check. He said that some had arrived dead, and a few were nipped. (Apparently Chris was supposed to have contacted me, but failed to do so). He paid me for the dragons that were good. He told me that my remaining dragons are healthy and vibrant, and that he would LOVE to do business with me again. Mind you, I had this conversation with him TWO WEEKS after I sent the dragons...so obviously they did not start dying off a week later...otherwise, why would he not have mentioned this to me? So once again...either your are confusing me with someone else...or he felt the need to LIE to me and tell me that he likes my dragons and that they are healthy.

So...what am I to make of this situation? Who is telling me the truth?

Jamie Hough


RE: leatherback‏
From: Cat DemonX ([email protected])
Sent: Thu 7/02/09 7:51 PM
To: [email protected]
i talked to chris and troy when the couple dragons i recieved died and they informed me that they too lost a few. When i recieved the shipment
of these dragons i
noticed that they were not the size listed and troy was confused at
the size of them. I have a picture of one of the
dead ones. But theres no replacing the lost one.
i wanted to keep her as a personal pet. But shes
dead. I dont plan on doing business with you anymore and i will inform the shop likewise. If
they choose to do business with you im out its their problem. Im just disappointed that there are people out there selling dragons like that.
i did not mention the
dead dragons on the bd.org forum
i wont either.
Im done and wont buy from your stock again. I have a more reputible person to deal
with.
good luck with your business.




SNEA replied to my ad, which VERY CLEARLY stated the size of the animals that I had for sale. I shipped the animals out in a timely manner. There was an issue with some of the animals arriving DOA, and I honored my live arrival guarantee. Troy and I worked that issue out and came to an agreement on payment. He told me that the dragons were healthy, vibrant, and over the phone he said that he would love to do business with me again.

My check arrived and I deposited it….

AND THE DARN THING BOUNCED! Insufficient funds. The check was sent back on July 2nd. And OF COURSE I only get voicemail, and I get no response to email or messages left.

This company has been a pain in the rear to deal with. I feel like I have made my best effort to do everything “right” and they have not done their part. So I am left with 75 less dragons, NO PAYMENT, and negative, untrue posts on beardeddragon.org.

That just ain’t right, LOL! Avoid selling to these people, and watch out for Kelly Frenette…she’s prone to "stretching" the truth…

Jamie Hough
www.valleydragons.com
 
Wow that's just seems to be a ridiclous situation, I'm just wondering why you sent them the dragons first without any type of payment? Half payment atleast but none at all? Can't really be trusting people these days cause it seems BOI'S I've read this always happen once the seller ships FIRST than the problems just begin they buyer will decide to make excuses, delay sending you your stuff, to the point where they sell your stuff to make profit AND ignore you and decide to not pay. Just a shame.

-Jamal Cole
 
I've never had a problems before with sending the dragons first. Most larger companies will not send payment first on a wholesale shipment of dragons. I do not have a big enough name in the business yet to demand payment first...so if I want to sell, I have to do things their way. *Sigh*. I've learned my lesson - stick to companies that I know!

Jamie
 
just wondering why you would ship 60 tiny dragons in one sac all mixed together unmarked, no heat packs, in a box that was 12x9x7 with 15 larger babies crammed on top? the fact that you emailed me to gloat that you posted me on BOI shows what a scam you are. your in it for the money. as i've told you before im not dealing with you anymore, chris and troy are a sperate matter from me. I want quality over quantity and your dragons werent quality.
 
so let me get this strait, you get offended by what other people have to say about you? Well you're in the wrong business pal. So if someone wants to know something about a breeder by asking others what they think its wrong? this all started because i asked if anyone ever delt with you. sorry wholesale buyers and millers dont count i want to know what individual people have to say. its apperant that you cant handle what they say or else you wouldnt have felt threatened enough to post on the BOI. Whatever floats your boat i guess. I figured when the last email i sent you stated that i wouldnt be doing any business with you again that im done and to have a nice night would have left it at that. but apperantly you feel the need to get the last word in and when i ignored your last email, you got pissed enough to come here. Karma will bite you in the ass. i can post pictures of the dead dragon a how big it was if you like.
 
Kelcifer i dont know the whole situation and stuff but i do have one question, you didnt like how they were shipped or the size of them correct? Also supposly 15 died or something ? So your left with 60 live dragons, why didnt you guys at the shop send them back? But what im wondering is you guys kept them, sold them, and didnt pay(Well the check bounced)? Whats up with that part?

-Jamal Cole
 
]
and as for emails about the parents of the babies, im not going to give someone a dragon that supposedly leatherback without looking at or knowing what the parents are.

I think you are having some major issues keeping your facts straight. The ad clearly states that I was selling leatherback siblings. This is NOT the same as a leatherback.

Jamie
 
im not part of the shop at all. its their business and money. i paid for the 12 dragons that went in for on the deal. i only bought that lot thinking i might keep a couple. i gave chris my cash and that was that. i dont know what they did with the money or who it went to. i told them it was a bad idea to get all those dragons at once. i told them to start with a small 5 or 10 lot. but they didnt and figured to get them all. i paid for the 12 that i took and the rest was up to them. i told them to send them back but they had buyers already so they kept the live ones. i lost three of my twelve. i just happend to buy the wrong dragons from the wrong breeder. i wont make that mistake again. oh did i mention that jamie never asked where the dragons were going? or ask if the shop had experiance with dragons at all? after seeing how small they were and in the condition they were in, i ended up taking a few of the smallest ones since i knew they would die if they stayed at the shop and by doing that i lost out. as for asking about the bloodlines of the dragons, i had a breeder intersted in taking one but wanted to know what the lines were, so i asked jamie. the shop and i are two differant playing fields. im independant from the shop as i've told jamie countless times. i paid for dragons that were small and looked young and a few died. the shops dragons arent mine and its their problem not mine.
 
Kelly, you were part of the whole bad experience with NEA. You are associated with them (you told me that you help at the shop). You have been unprofessional and deceitful. I am not threatened by you, but I DO think others should be warned of my experience with this company.

As for my shipping methods, it is the same one I have been using since I started wholesaling. It's the same one that other people have used when they shipped groups of animals to me. This was the first time that something went wrong. I honored my live arrival guarantee, and Troy was supposed to pay for the healthy animals.

Jamie
 
From: Jamie Hough <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: leatherback
To: [email protected]
Date: Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 10:00 PM


The babies are from my leatherback male, "Jesse", and my orange sandfire x normal female, "Mandarin". The leatherback male is an AC Reptiles American co-dominant.


Jamie :)


uh huh what were you saying about not leatherbacks?

Uh...do you not understand leatherback genetics at all?

Jamie
 
im not part of the shop at all. its their business and money. i paid for the 12 dragons that went in for on the deal. i only bought that lot thinking i might keep a couple. i gave chris my cash and that was that. i dont know what they did with the money or who it went to. i told them it was a bad idea to get all those dragons at once. i told them to start with a small 5 or 10 lot. but they didnt and figured to get them all. i paid for the 12 that i took and the rest was up to them. i told them to send them back but they had buyers already so they kept the live ones. i lost three of my twelve. i just happend to buy the wrong dragons from the wrong breeder. i wont make that mistake again. oh did i mention that jamie never asked where the dragons were going? or ask if the shop had experiance with dragons at all? after seeing how small they were and in the condition they were in, i ended up taking a few of the smallest ones since i knew they would die if they stayed at the shop and by doing that i lost out. as for asking about the bloodlines of the dragons, i had a breeder intersted in taking one but wanted to know what the lines were, so i asked jamie. the shop and i are two differant playing fields. im independant from the shop as i've told jamie countless times. i paid for dragons that were small and looked young and a few died. the shops dragons arent mine and its their problem not mine.

Well then, you sure did not represent yourself as separate from them when you spoke to me before. Then I guess you have no part in this particular thread, although I would still advise people to watch out for you. You are a liar, and you obviously don't have a great deal of knowledge, genetics, or the wholesale business.

Jamie
 
Well then, you sure did not represent yourself as separate from them when you spoke to me before. Then I guess you have no part in this particular thread, although I would still advise people to watch out for you. You are a liar, and you obviously don't have a great deal of knowledge, genetics, or the wholesale business.

Jamie

Sorry, that last statement came out a bit wonky. It should say "obviously you don't have a great deal of knowledge about dragons, genetics, or the wholesale business."
 
im not part of the shop at all. its their business and money. i paid for the 12 dragons that went in for on the deal. i only bought that lot thinking i might keep a couple. i gave chris my cash and that was that. i dont know what they did with the money or who it went to. i told them it was a bad idea to get all those dragons at once. i told them to start with a small 5 or 10 lot. but they didnt and figured to get them all. i paid for the 12 that i took and the rest was up to them. i told them to send them back but they had buyers already so they kept the live ones. i lost three of my twelve. i just happend to buy the wrong dragons from the wrong breeder. i wont make that mistake again. oh did i mention that jamie never asked where the dragons were going? or ask if the shop had experiance with dragons at all? after seeing how small they were and in the condition they were in, i ended up taking a few of the smallest ones since i knew they would die if they stayed at the shop and by doing that i lost out. as for asking about the bloodlines of the dragons, i had a breeder intersted in taking one but wanted to know what the lines were, so i asked jamie. the shop and i are two differant playing fields. im independant from the shop as i've told jamie countless times. i paid for dragons that were small and looked young and a few died. the shops dragons arent mine and its their problem not mine.

Oh now i see, you paid for your 12 to the shop, the shop was suppose to pay your money and the rest of 60 that lived to Valley dragons but didnt seem to as of yet(if they ever will).
It seemed at first as if you was the one who scammed him because you was talking about the shipment and such i thought they were all sent to you, but i guess the shop told you how they were shipped and such, so your not really the bad one here, you just dont agree with his shipping methods and didnt like the dragons that was sent to the shop that you purchased, hmm will still seems as if whoever runs this shop still has some speaking to do as far as his money part. I understand if someone did not like how they were shipped or how the dragons looked, now wouldnt they send them back or something? You cant just sell the dragons(obviously if your selling them they must not be so bad after all, either that or he doesnt care how bad of shape they "was" in he just wants the profit part?) But yeah you cant just sell the dragons, make your profit, and also not pay for what you bought, doesnt sound to fair so far.

-Jamal Cole
 
Oh now i see, you paid for your 12 to the shop, the shop was suppose to pay your money and the rest of 60 that lived to Valley dragons but didnt seem to as of yet(if they ever will).
It seemed at first as if you was the one who scammed him because you was talking about the shipment and such i thought they were all sent to you, but i guess the shop told you how they were shipped and such, so your not really the bad one here, you just dont agree with his shipping methods and didnt like the dragons that was sent to the shop that you purchased, hmm will still seems as if whoever runs this shop still has some speaking to do as far as his money part. I understand if someone did not like how they were shipped or how the dragons looked, now wouldnt they send them back or something? You cant just sell the dragons(obviously if your selling them they must not be so bad after all, either that or he doesnt care how bad of shape they "was" in he just wants the profit part?) But yeah you cant just sell the dragons, make your profit, and also not pay for what you bought, doesnt sound to fair so far.

-Jamal Cole

Not to be picky or anything...but I'm a HER, not a him...LOL.

Jamie
 
jamie

i just want to apologize as i originally posted on the bd.org post and my statement may have been missinterpreted. upon reading this posting i now realize you are the victim here. a victim first of someone slandering you who apparently had no dealings with you and whos problem should be with their pet store partner/friend not you. and also a victim of a company not holding up their end of the bargain. a company that is apparently ignorant to the process of buying a wholesale lot of dragons. i hope you get your money that is a terrible situation to be in. again i wish you luck and i am annoyed for you concerning the third party aggressor that was trying to paint you as a irresponsible company/breeder.

Brian
 
jamie

i just want to apologize as i originally posted on the bd.org post and my statement may have been missinterpreted. upon reading this posting i now realize you are the victim here. a victim first of someone slandering you who apparently had no dealings with you and whos problem should be with their pet store partner/friend not you. and also a victim of a company not holding up their end of the bargain. a company that is apparently ignorant to the process of buying a wholesale lot of dragons. i hope you get your money that is a terrible situation to be in. again i wish you luck and i am annoyed for you concerning the third party aggressor that was trying to paint you as a irresponsible company/breeder.

Brian

No problem! :)
 
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