About the BOI and it's future here...

[hhmoore]

You allow people to post clearly illegal ads in the turtle section of the classifieds. Even though I personally take drastic steps to comply with laws and regulations, and therefore would have little to worry about for myself, this fact puts a bad taste in my mouth. At this very moment, someone is offering domestic sales of alligator snapping turtles out of California. I know it can be tough to virtually impossible to police everything. But, I reported an ad where the individual was literally stating the fact that it was an illegal transaction...no response.

I think this is a fairly common problem, without an easy solution. Anywhere that I have viewed reptile classifieds, there have been animals listed that can't be sold where they are. Quite simply, that isn't fixable. We don't know the laws of every State and locality, or what permits/licenses the sellers or buyers might have. With approximately 600 posts being made daily, we also can't look into the legalities of the ads.
Reported posts are not ignored - an email is sent to each member of the moderation team, it gets posted in a forum created specifically for those items, and they are visible when we review the New Posts listings. We don't routinely respond to the person that reports the post, and, more often than not, any action we take is not publicized.

Secondly, the fact that you allow practically unchecked responses to the ads also turns me off.

Again, with 600 +/- posts daily, we don't catch everything...if the responses in the ads are inappropriate - report them. FWIW, I regularly send PMs, and/or give warnings and infractions, to people that are crossing my lines in ads. As mentioned above, though, more often than not, those things remain private so the general membership doesn't see them. I'll have to check on whether it is open to all members, but there is also a method for a seller to close ads to additional posts.
(going to check that now)

 

[WebSlave]

Number of overall hits is meaningless.. 70,000 hits can be created by a simple program..and there has been many sites using programs like this to elevate there standing and draw more advertising etc..
6000 people daily is quite turnout... what sucks is there not really buying anything on fauna...so how do you know there shopping for reptiles and not just looking around at pics??
Rocket scientist or not...Personally I don't believe 6000 unique individuals visit Fauna everyday looking for animals to buy. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see there NOT BUYING MUCH STUFF HERE...or anywhere else for that matter!!

As one of the supposed 6000 clicks I look at the classifieds perhaps every other visit or less..there been times I visited probably 20+ times and never looked at the classifieds..speaking to many in the hobby over the last 8 years... most don't sell or buy regularly on the classifieds here..they read ,argue and post....so the statement of 6000 people coming here to buy reptiles daily seems a bit exaggerated.But I could be wrong.
I believe that if have that many people here to do business, then there's a way to make it work..perhaps redesign of the classifieds system is in order. In order for Fauna to work it needs a fundamental change... not just a change in policy,fee's etc..
Out with the old in with the new so to speak..
Perhaps let the 6000 visitors come up with some options..
Make up an email and Spam every member of this site..see what they have to say, what changes would they make if it were up to them..
Then discuss publically the options that comes up the most...
Perhaps you've done this.. maybe you havn't

A lot of people come here, but many are way too intimidated to post or get involved...and why should they..some are not as gifted at writing or speech and sometimes saying ones mind here can have severe repercussions for the business,personal and hobby life.. Rich your site has hurt some good people in this business...and no-one can say it hasn't 100%...how many are enemies here just because of difference in opinions. I recently was ripped off by a person on this site...but instead of posting..I kept it to myself..seems like the threads can become more traumatic than getting ripped..I am sure that wasn't your intention...but I am one of many who feel this way.
I myself can point out a dozen times I was right but wrong on here...to later be right again...LOL...that's a rollercoaster ride.. TSE , Gilbert Thompson, Corey Woods, David Dedrick etc..etc.. courts of public opinion are brutal..maybe this is the problem..the site is too harsh and quick to judge..Some of the biggest crooks our industry has seen used social networking here to advance there biz...for example TSE...always asking it's customers to post good experiences of them on the BOI..to what end??
Personally this site cuts both ways...it is incapable by design to be 100% right or fair...no court of public opinion is PERIOD...but it also gives those wronged a recourse they normally wouldn't have available to them..
How many close friends have you lost Rich...how many have you gained..and are the ones gained your friend because they like you or because there scared of you??
So unless the site addresses these issues how can it overcome the consequences it creates??
Regards,
Justin Mitcham
ExtremeHogs.com

If you are looking for that perfect world to move to, Justin, be sure to let me know when you find it. I certainly wouldn't mind living there for a change....

I've already tried every change I can think of to make it better, and oftentimes things got worse. So it just is what it is now. People can either take it or leave it. Which is the entire reason for this thread. If the BOI has basically failed to do what I intended it to, and paid memberships reflect this fact, then it deserves to die and I am willing to do that. I certainly don't have any qualms at all about admitting that my intentions cannot be realized, and this was all just a bad idea.

And on January 1, I will make my decision about the evidence I am seeing here and how to interpret it all to that effect. I know I certainly can live without the BOI. You all have to decide whether or not YOU want to.

As for my personal life in relation to the BOI, all in all I would have to say there are a lot more negatives then positives. With all this in mind, and had I had the foresight of today when I first thought of creating the BOI, WOULD I? Nope. Not a chance.

Yeah, I'm sure that if I do close up the BOI, some enterprising individuals will see this as a golden opportunity to try to get a lot of traffic to their own sites by trying to pick up this endeavor. All I can see, is good luck with that.

 

[hhmoore]

I'll have to check on whether it is open to all members, but there is also a method for a seller to close ads to additional posts.

Just to confirm, all registered members have the option of closing their classfied ads. I can think of a few that do so routinely. I've tried it, and found that I get fewer responses - which seems strange to me, since I specify to contact me via PM or email, and largely ignore posts made to the ad

 

[Justin Mitcham]

Rich my world would be quite perfect if everybody else would get out of it LOL!!!

seriously...

I may be critical , but it doesn't mean I don't understand what you are saying. Why is it that Fighting for what you believe seems to never quite turn out the way we want it. It can leave you bitter or just plain tired/both..in the end I think the feeling of isolation it sometimes brings just gets the best of us. Were just stupid humans, can any of us say for 100% we wouldn't make the same choices if in the same situation.
I think the BOI is a good ideal.. but in the end I believe success ultimately lies in being able to actually resolve issues, not posting about them and create bigger ones.. If you can get both the buyer and seller to come here and negotiate a settlement rather than yell...you wouldn't have so many hard feelings. How to go about it..I'm not that smart.
Regards,
Justin Mitcham
ExtremeHogs.com

 

[shrap]

If you can get both the buyer and seller to come here and negotiate a settlement..I'm not that smart.

I'm not a smart man either, but if the buyer and seller were willing to do that in the first place then they wouldnt need to come here in the first place. Would they?

Just asking.....

 

[shrap]

Just to confirm, all registered members have the option of closing their classfied ads. I can think of a few that do so routinely. I've tried it, and found that I get fewer responses - which seems strange to me, since I specify to contact me via PM or email, and largely ignore posts made to the ad

....and I think I stumbled across why. I had 4 or 5 people email me and mention that they thought the animal was off the market, because "the ad said closed", the only time I ever tried closing my ads.

Some new and/or infrequent members/users are mistaking the "Closed" pre-fix as meaning the ad itself is closed (as in the animal is no longer available) and not just closed to additional posting.

I meant to mention this to Rich a couple of weeks ago to see what he thought about it. Maybe change the word Closed?

 

[WebSlave]

There are pros and cons to allowing replies to classified ads. I could argue either side equally well. And no matter which way I would have decided, half of the people involved would not have liked the decision. So I made in an option that the advertiser can exercise at will. They can either accept replies or not with all of the associated drawbacks of each being their own responsibility.

As for changing the label "closed" to something else, sorry but no, I can't see any overpowering reason to do that.

 

[hhmoore]

Going back to the bumping and renewing of ads. I'm sure that Rich, and many others, will recall numerous complaints about people that renewed several ads within a specific section at least daily. They were "abusing the classifieds", "pushing other people off the front page", etc. (This has happened in several ad categories, so it is not an isolated incident).
Even with the increased activity in the classifieds, those attitudes apparently persist, since I just got another complaint about somebody doing just that.
Rich's response was pretty similar in each case...something along the lines that he/we are not going to act against a member utilizing the classifieds. If someone thinks, notices, or hopes that keeping his ads on top will improve his sales, and shows the initiative to repost to keep them there - good for him. If other sellers don't want to put the effort into their advertising, well, that just might be their loss if they don't generate the sales they want. Why should we impede one member with the desire to sell, just because others don't have the same drive?

*On a personal note, I'm don't think I would feel the same way about the typed bump - unless the seller was diligent about removing previous bumps (who wants to open an ad and see post after post of bump, bump it up, ttt, bumpppppp, bring it up, still here, etc)

 

[WebSlave]

If people posting replies to their own ads simply to bump them to the top becomes a real problem, there are several ways I can terminate that situation. All of which will positively generate whines from most people involved. This kind of situation is one in which I will get whine-o-grams from one side no matter what I do, so trying to solve one whine will just get me whines from a different direction....... So be careful about what you wish for... Sometimes the cure can be worse then the ailment.

 

[hhmoore]

For the record, in the case I was referring to in my above post, the seller in question is relisting his ads (and deleting the old ones)...not making posts to bump.

 

[WebSlave]

Just a fyi here, but today I shipped out the last of the reptiles in my facility, so I beat my deadline by more than three weeks to be retired. So yes, effective today I have retired from the reptile breeding business.

Paid memberships have picked up, but are still short of my hoped for goal by January 1.

 

[AF Exotics]

Well,FWIW,whether the BOI folds or not,in it's current state,it is a success .More often than not,it fulfilled it's ultimate design,not always with rose petals and chocolates,maybe more like sand and vinegar,but it works .Not PERFECT,but definately PERFUNCTORY .


I have had a few instances that I didn't enjoy,but results did come .Enjoy your retirement either way Rich .

 

[R. Eventide]

Congratulations on your retirement!

 

[TheFragginDragon]

Rich, congratulations on your 'officially' reaching retirement.

 

[Twizted Paths]

Far short? A little short?

 

[WebSlave]

Far short? A little short?

I believe I mentioned the goal as being 600. All memberships are just a bit under 400. I guess I'll be real surprised if 200 more members pony up in the next three weeks...

I guess 400 isn't too bad if I thought nearly all would renew...

Well, just over three weeks for me to think about it.

I guess push come to shove, I'm disappointed more than anything that more people don't believe the BOI is worth saving. This is sort of a vote of confidence thing....

 

[Twizted Paths]

So... We need the BOI because people suck. We're probably losing the BOI because people suck.

And people wonder why I prefer the company of my snakes (which are also in danger because people suck).

I'll renew now if it would help

Congrats on your retirement though, especially managing to do it almost a month early

 

[SnakeEyesExotics]

I believe I mentioned the goal as being 600. All memberships are just a bit under 400. I guess I'll be real surprised if 200 more members pony up in the next three weeks...

I guess 400 isn't too bad if I thought nearly all would renew...

Well, just over three weeks for me to think about it.

I guess push come to shove, I'm disappointed more than anything that more people don't believe the BOI is worth saving. This is sort of a vote of confidence thing....

That stinks...

I wish I could register for a few more memberships so I could help kick up that number, but unfortunately that doesn't work.

I'm definitely gonna miss the BOI, it has saved my butt several times.

Anya Hogan

 

[MedusaCoils]

I believe I mentioned the goal as being 600. All memberships are just a bit under 400. I guess I'll be real surprised if 200 more members pony up in the next three weeks...

I guess 400 isn't too bad if I thought nearly all would renew...

Well, just over three weeks for me to think about it.

I guess push come to shove, I'm disappointed more than anything that more people don't believe the BOI is worth saving. This is sort of a vote of confidence thing....

Does that factor in any straight donations that were made? Or is that something different?

Wayne

 

[cat snake]

Hi, Rich!
About the vote of confidence, I think some of the lackluster response has to do with the economy. I just tonight became a contributing member, but money is getting really tight. This week I had to pay someone with a Home Depot gift card to make up the balance of what I owed him because I am so short on cash. People are going to want to make sure they can buy presents for the kids before they can think about the BOI. I just hope they WILL think about the BOI before the end of the year! Even we cash-strapped folks need to step up to support it. I have used the BOI extensively and have avoided a few sellers because of the information I read. Thank you.

Can I make a comment about the “Pay to Play” idea? That is good, but I think allowing non-paying viewers to just read the subject lines is a bad idea. It seems to me that fully HALF of the “Bad Guy” threads, when you read them, show that the “Bad Guy” is actually a Good Guy who is being smeared by a disgruntled customer. If viewers can only read the subject line, there is no way these Good Guys will be able to vindicate themselves except to paying members and that could cost them business unfairly. Instead of letting people read the subject lines, you might want to consider something such as putting up a page with a ticker which states “In the past month, there have been XXX number of Bad Guy posts. Do you know if the person you want to buy from is one of them?” This way, Good Guys don’t get unfairly targeted and the mystery of what the threads contain might pique people’s curiosity enough to actually make them want to pay to see who really is a Bad Guy. If the subject lines were made accurate to avoid damaging a Good Guy’s reputation (by posting an icon that a Bad Guy has been shown to really be a Good Guy for example), doesn’t that just continue to give the non-paying folks the information they want from the BOI for free? Just some thoughts to protect all the Good Guys while getting the BOI to pay for itself. You could also think about making past BOI postings available on CD for a fee or something similar. Enjoy your retirement!

Virginia Bayer