WTH Rich!

[WebSlave]

phibians.
(a) General Prohibition It is unlawful to capture, collect,
intentionally kill or injure, possess, purchase, propagate, sell,
transport, import or export any native reptile or amphibian, or part
thereof, except as provided in this chapter, Chapter 2 of this
subdivision relating to sportfishing and frogging, sections 650,
670.7, or 783 of these regulations, or as otherwise provided in the
Fish and Game Code or these regulations.
(b) For the purposes of this section, “intentionally kill or injure”
does not include death or injury that occurs incidental to an
otherwise lawful activity. This section does not prohibit the capture,
temporary collection or temporary possession of native reptiles
and amphibians done to avoid mortality or injury in connection
with such activities. The live capture and release of native reptiles
and amphibians done to avoid such death or injury may occur
only with the department’s written approval.
(c) Except for dried or processed reptile skins, it is unlawful
to display, in any place of business where pets or other animals
are sold, native reptiles or amphibians which cannot lawfully be
sold.
(d) Progeny resulting from pregnant native reptiles or
amphibians collected from the wild must be transferred to another
person or to a scientific or educational institution within 45 days
of birth or hatching. Persons receiving such progeny shall comply
with the bag and possession limits specified in sections 5.05 and
5.60.
(e) Reptiles or amphibians which have been in captivity,
including wild-caught and captively-bred individuals or offspring,
shall not be released into the wild without the written approval of
the department.
(f) Biological Supply Houses and Exempt Organizations.
(1) Biological Supply Houses. The department may issue permits
to owners of biological supply houses to sell native reptiles and
amphibians to scientific or educational institutions, pursuant to

Since you obviously cut and pasted that from an online source, could I have the URL please?

 

[kmarsh]

You know his answer will be that it does not apply to indigenous species.

 

[WebSlave]

Hmm, reading over that quote, this caught my eye..

d) Progeny resulting from pregnant native reptiles or
amphibians collected from the wild must be transferred to another
person or to a scientific or educational institution within 45 days
of birth or hatching. Persons receiving such progeny shall comply
with the bag and possession limits specified in sections 5.05 and
5.60.

Eh? This is Florida law? That's news to me....

 

[WebSlave]

You know his answer will be that it does not apply to indigenous species.

And if that is the TRUTH, then you have a problem with that?

 

[xanaxez]

Since you obviously cut and pasted that from an online source, could I have the URL please?

I will hunt it down again rich. i actually had to dig deep to find it on the fl.gov site or the fish and wildlife site. i never give up on finding facts.

 

[kmurphy]

Turncoats?
Why, because we disagree with the practice of releasing captive bred animals into the wild?
This was not a scientific reintroduction of a species into the wild. This was a breeder releasing snakes into the wild that had no idea if it would have a negative impact on the ecosystem.
I do not feel that disagreeing with this type of behavior posting to show that there are other hobbyists that don't condone this type of behavior as well is being a turncoat.

I agree Steve. It amazes me that anyone is trying to defend this behavior. I am a locality guy so I would never think of releasing even a northern florida king in south florida. Even though they are both "native". I am sure those that are much more knowledgeable with corns would have just as much problem with releasing a Jersey corn in Florida.

 

[WebSlave]

I will hunt it down again rich. i actually had to dig deep to find it on the fl.gov site or the fish and wildlife site. i never give up on finding facts.

Thank you. So if it proves I did break the law, anyone want video of my being handcuffed to make your day?

 

[hhmoore]

anyone want video of my being handcuffed to make your day?

Let's keep what you and Connie do behind closed doors behind closed doors, k Rich?

 

[critical bill]

Turncoats?
Why, because we disagree with the practice of releasing captive bred animals into the wild?
This was not a scientific reintroduction of a species into the wild. This was a breeder releasing snakes into the wild that had no idea if it would have a negative impact on the ecosystem.
I do not feel that disagreeing with this type of behavior posting to show that there are other hobbyists that don't condone this type of behavior as well is being a turncoat.

I didn't call you a turncoat, so why did you take it as though I did? Are you feeling like a turncoat?

You didn't turn on this website did you? You didn't get so upset that you cussed at other members and condemned the whole website like some other bums have, did you?

I don't see any of that coming from you, so why did you take what I said as meaning you are one of them?

I think you're upset but I think you've been respectful and rational.

I'm sorry if I offended you.

 

[kmarsh]

This is almost comical, but I have never been known for backing down either. I DO NOT agree with what you did and am hurt that this was written in the midst of the problems we have in the reptile industry right now. The only reason I even spoke was to let her know that what ever she had posted if it didn't apply to "native" then you would point that out. That way it would give her/him a chance to see or clarify. I'm not the one you are fighting with but as the others have said and I too beleive, I am entitiled to my opinion. It may be "your" site but we contribute to that cause when we became contributing members. That didn't make us give up our rights to express our disagreement with your actions.

 

[xanaxez]

Thank you. So if it proves I did break the law, anyone want video of my being handcuffed to make your day?

I dont think anyone wants to see you go to jail or any bad will against you Rich. i think a lot of people just feel that being someone a lot looked up too and had high praised in this hobby at one time, would have even considered releasing them into the wild at the time you did. a lot of people(from post i have read on forums) feel you threw them under the bus after you retired.

 

[Helenthereef]

A can of worms

Just to prove there's a a law against most things if you look hard enough....

phibians.
(d) Progeny resulting from pregnant native reptiles or
amphibians collected from the wild must be transferred to another
person or to a scientific or educational institution within 45 days
of birth or hatching. Persons receiving such progeny shall comply
with the bag and possession limits specified in sections 5.05 and
5.60.

Looks to me that 'most everyone who has bred from wild-caught native reptiles has also broken the law - if I were you I'd drop this line of reasoning before you find EVERYTHING being done is technically illegal.

 

[critical bill]

That didn't make us give up our rights to express our disagreement with your actions.

But is that whats happening here? I see more and more people making it personal with Rich, accusing him of not caring because he is out of the business, accusing him of never caring to begin with, accusing him of crashing the corn snake market, accusing him of breaking the law, calling him a liar, calling him names, calling members of this site names.......

That seems to be a bit more than expressing a disagreement.

 

[xanaxez]

But is that whats happening here? I see more and more people making it personal with Rich, accusing him of not caring because he is out of the business, accusing him of never caring to begin with, accusing him of crashing the corn snake market, accusing him of breaking the law, calling him a liar, calling him names, calling members of this site names.......

That seems to be a bit more than expressing a disagreement.

You have done all of the above in post before on other members chuck. now that people has directed it torward rich because they feel he throwed the hobby under the bus... you don't condone it any longer?

 

[WebSlave]

I dont think anyone wants to see you go to jail or any bad will against you Rich. i think a lot of people just feel that being someone a lot looked up too and had high praised in this hobby at one time, would have even considered releasing them into the wild at the time you did. a lot of people(from post i have read on forums) feel you threw them under the bus after you retired.

How in the world did anyone get that impression? This all stemmed from what I thought was an interesting little video clip of a lavender motley I found alongside the road. So how did anyone take that as throwing them under the bus? I would have posted that same video five years ago had it happened then. So this has absolutely nothing at all to do with my retirement. Except for maybe the fact that I had the TIME to walk down that road.

As for "bad will"? How else should I interpret all this antagonism and hatred I am seeing? I released those corn snakes because I just could not bear to outright KILL them. And that deserves the reaction I have gotten? Perhaps I should have just snapped their necks and taken video of that instead. That would have been better?

So do you have the URL for your quote yet? I really would like to see it, please.

 

[kmarsh]

I went back and read all the pages before I posted ANY response. The only reason I replied to Bo was to give him a chance to see if what he was quoting from said a difference in Native or not native. Rich, comes back immediately, to me, with a smart comment. I realize someone on the defense of a attack gets snippy for lack of a better way to put it, but from the start of the post it just seems as if he is so arrogant. To those of us wanting to keep our reptiles and be supportive of this site, it hurts to feel that he did something so irresponsible and much less put it in writing. I agree with the person that posted, what was wrong with just giving away what he didnt want for what ever reason rather than take the chance that it could cause a problem or be illegal, but even worse to open up this can of worms that could be used against the industry. We are already being lumped into the category of releasing large snakes into the everglades without any proof, but that doesnt stop them from trying to make it law to take away my snakes or to buy/sell them to others. Release into the wild for what ever reason is wrong. Give away, sell cheap, do something else because we don't know what the impact could or will be. No one, NOT EVEN RICH, knows. Time will tell, but why take the chance.

 

[WebSlave]

I went back and read all the pages before I posted ANY response. The only reason I replied to Bo was to give him a chance to see if what he was quoting from said a difference in Native or not native. Rich, comes back immediately, to me, with a smart comment. I realize someone on the defense of a attack gets snippy for lack of a better way to put it, but from the start of the post it just seems as if he is so arrogant. To those of us wanting to keep our reptiles and be supportive of this site, it hurts to feel that he did something so irresponsible and much less put it in writing. I agree with the person that posted, what was wrong with just giving away what he didnt want for what ever reason rather than take the chance that it could cause a problem or be illegal, but even worse to open up this can of worms that could be used against the industry. We are already being lumped into the category of releasing large snakes into the everglades without any proof, but that doesnt stop them from trying to make it law to take away my snakes or to buy/sell them to others. Release into the wild for what ever reason is wrong. Give away, sell cheap, do something else because we don't know what the impact could or will be. No one, NOT EVEN RICH, knows. Time will tell, but why take the chance.

I am sorry, but your post seemed like it was being snippy towards ME. Read the few posts before yours and perhaps you will see how easy it would be to come to that conclusion.

Did you read the post I made about my selling problem feeders cheaply at shows and how well that went? Well, I got disgusted at other vendors buying my non feeders then relabelling them as "freshly hatched" and reselling them to an unsuspecting public. Yeah, that worked out REAL WELL. Most of those probably died in some kid's hands who didn't have nearly the experience to get them feeding. If it would have been easy, they would have been feeding already for me.

And if I just went to a show giving away snakes, you can bet your bottom dollar that someone would be screaming about me dumping them and crashing the market as a result. After all, if they could get all those snakes for free from me, why bother buying them from Joe Blow across the aisle? Joe Blow would be screaming bloody murder about me killing his sales. How do you think things would have gone at Expo this year if I taken a few hundred non feeders and just gave them away? People are whining now because I sold my stuff at discount prices. Imagine the flak I'd be catching now for GIVING them away. Or how about giving them away online? Well who is going to pay the shipping for them? Me? Is anyone going to really feel they are "free" if they have to pay shipping for them? Anyone else out there willing to spend the money to ship snakes free to people?

Do you really think I didn't look at and even try most options open to me over the years?

As for it being irresponsible, sorry, I don't believe that is the case at all. I am not denying it, am providing the reasons why I chose to do so, and based my decision on all facts I considered. My responsibility was to the animals in my care. Not some slim possibility of potential disaster to the environment. I am sorry that some feel there were better alternatives to releasing them, but I just did not see it that way. Maybe someone else's situation would be different, but that was not MY situation. Euthanizing my corn snakes when it was necessary is about the hardest thing I have ever had to do. And I just flat out refused to do it if there was a viable alternative open to me. It wasn't till the last few years that I had someone willing to take even the non-feeders, but up to that time, choices were limited as to options. So like it or not, right or wrong to some people, I chose what I felt was best to do for MY animals. If you all just want to crucify me because of this, then so be it. I do hope it makes you feel good about yourselves.

 

[Tere Salazar]

So do you have the URL for your quote yet? I really would like to see it, please.

So you don't have to wait, Rich...page two, right hand column, I think.

http://www.dfg.ca.gov/licensing/pdffiles/fg1502.pdf

Oops...that says California. That was the first thingie on Google. I'll keep looking...sorry.

 

[WebSlave]

So you don't have to wait, Rich...page two, right hand column, I think.

http://www.dfg.ca.gov/licensing/pdffiles/fg1502.pdf

Sorry, but I don't live in California....

 

[WebSlave]

I will hunt it down again rich. i actually had to dig deep to find it on the fl.gov site or the fish and wildlife site. i never give up on finding facts.

It shouldn't be difficult for you to find it. Just press CTRL-H while in your browser and call up the history of URLs you have visited.