Bad Guy Ed Clark, again

[illbeyoursoldier]

Sorry,
-Chelsea Lynn Gardiner

...and sorry for the typos!!

 

[DAND]

I have been shipping herps for a long time and have never used anything other than whats in this pic. they are 40 hour heat packs.

For someone with such vast knowledge and experience under his belt one would think one should have enough sense NOT to ship when the weather conditions were as cold as they were. Shame on you

As requested by the customer I shipped on the day she wanted me to, it was extremely cold.

From your e-mail correspondence provided by the OP it appears you offered to ship right away even knowing it was extremely cold. No mention of concern for the temps or that in doing so would void your live arrival guarantee provided by your TOS. We won't even discuss the idiocy of shipping out when you did with FedEx not guaranteeing shipments that week.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Ed Clark <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Mon, December 28, 2009 4:10:44 PM
Subject: Re: Message about: Captive Bred Black Pastel.

Hi Nicole, have fed this guy live, fresh killed and frozen thawed both mice and rats.

Lately I have fed alot of fresh killed jumbo mice as that's what I have had on hand.

$40.00 fedex priority overnight, I can ship right away if you would like.

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From: Nicole Belval <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Message about: Captive Bred Black Pastel.
To: "Ed Clark" <[email protected]>
Date: Monday, December 28, 2009, 5:09 PM


I must have misread your ad. It appeared that shipping was included in the price. I will still take him though. So $365 will be heading your way via paypal.
Great news about the feeders though, makes my life easier.

Ship to:
Nicole Belval
50 C L Lane
Swanzey, NH 03446

603-209-6583 if needed

If you want to ship tomorrow for Wednesday arrival, that would be awesome. Let me know the ship and arrival date and I'll be sending payment right away.

Thanks so much,
Nicole

P.S. Can you tell me the genetics on this one (what were the parents)? Thanks!

The 2 ball pythons were 1 cb male black pastel and ch female. both were feeding well on mostly live rodents and at times were fed frozen thawed. both had good body weight with no problems.

Except internal parasites and the missing male genitalia.

 

[rusticreptiles]

Nicole,

In Ed's defense (no flaming me folks!) not even the best heat packs and insulation can withstand those temps. And those little ones are little miracles for surviving. Also I can understand the possibility of a misunderstanding of when to ship. Miss communications do happen especially when someone is in a hurry or something has part of their attention.

Personally you should keep her and sell her offspring or just sell her on your own when the weather improves. Attached or not. I know I would. I understand the HUGE frustration in getting a miss-sexed animal. But really when it comes down to it (IMO) if you think of just the price Ed is really getting the short end of the stick if you keep her. She's worth more even as a young baby and of course the more weight she puts on the more she'll be worth. But I'm sure you know all that.

That all being said I do fault BOTH of you for the animals being shipped. Yes most of the blame is on Ed but the full mistake is not his. New to the hobby or not how could you think that all the insulation and heat packs would protect an animal in a cardboard box in below freezing temperatures???? Even in a good amount gear a warmblooded human cannot survive that. No offense but in seems that common sense was not used on your side either.

I am not absolving Ed of the mistakes but I am understanding how they could have happened.

I think a good resolve would be you keep the animal and Ed pay you the difference. Meaning pay you the difference between market average on a male vs female Black Pastel. So if a male (hearsay) costs $200 and a female of the same age and close weight costs $350 then Ed should pay you $150.
That way it's as though you bought a female not a male. Not what you wanted I know. But better then nothing and then there's the potential of having another - nice looking breeder female black pastel.

My reason for coming up with this solution is sending back the female, attachment or not, is just plain not safe and he won't refund without her being sent. Rightfully so. Not safe for him to ship you a different animal.

These are just my thoughts. Again sorry for the hassles and hope it's resolved soon.

I totally agree with you! I realize I was stupid in having the snake shipped, I just foolishly assumed since it's offered, it must be okay. I did not use common sense and wish I had!

 

[rusticreptiles]

Actually she got a more expensive snake,Ed made a mistake or who ever sexed it. So maybe she should just KEEP the snake and resell it after she gets it treated. sounds like the snake would pay itself off and the vet bill in due time. I know thats kinda crappy but not everything goes as planned with every transaction.
Also Nicole what you want and what your actually gonna get may be two different things. Looks like everything is all good with the miss sexing. but as far as vet bills this sounds like its coming outta her pockets. Nicole do you want another snake after getting those in with problems? Sounds like more drama than you really need. But hey, your vet will love you!

No, I really do not want a replacement snake. Just wanted some sort of renumeration for this situation. I don't feel it's right to ship her back either.

 

[rusticreptiles]

Everyone is guessing at prices.

The male black pastel was $250.00

a similar size female is worth $600.00 if you can find one.

If it is not the sex she bought I want it back and I will send her the male she paid for. and of course I will cover the shipping costs.

Then you really do owe mw a refund, I paid $300 for the male!

 

[DAND]

Then you really do owe mw a refund, I paid $300 for the male!

She does kind have you there.

 

[rusticreptiles]

Sorry didnt mean to quote you both. it was Christines post that didnt quite make sense.

i honestly think that the OP, considering she has refused to ship the female back to ed, could be offered 25% off of a male and be happy. Though, considering she has refused to ship the female back, ed would not be obligated under his TOS to even do that much. I would see it as good business to at least offer a discount on a male. But she deffinately does not deserve to get 1 female black pastel, 1 female ch normal, and a black pastel male for the cost of 1 male. That is not a legitimate outcome.

I paid $300 for the male black pastel and $65 for the CH female. Ed accidentally overcharged me for the male and shipping as his ad stated shipping was included. He resolved this by "throwing in" the CH female. So Yes, she was paid for seperately.

 

[rusticreptiles]

As far as I know counting the scales when probing is how you know. How deep the probe goes. So by Nicole saying "3 subcaudal scales" that means the probe only went in 3 subcaudal scales which makes it a female.

Correct. I'm sorry, I sort of assumed people would know what I meant forgetting this is not just a snake forum. The probe went to three scales, no more.

 

[rusticreptiles]

Nicole,

Did you send Ed the vet records from the visits????

I'm just curious.

Yes, He has receipts and copies of the records, with the parasites and probing results highlighted.

 

[spyder79]

No, I really do not want a replacement snake. Just wanted some sort of renumeration for this situation. I don't feel it's right to ship her back either.

So you do not want another snake. You have turned down 2 different resolutions from the OP, honestly you do not seem to want this resolved.

 

[rusticreptiles]

I DO want this resolved! He wants me to return the snake to him, so he can send me a male. I do not feel this is safe for either animal given my recent experience. Those that think I should ship her on back right away are as bad as he and I were for shipping in the cold weather. I DO take partial blame for having the snake shipped to me, I am fully aware NOW that is was a stupid thing to do. I have beaten myself up daily for this whole ordeal.

Why in heavens name would I send back a snake that I have put MY money into to get healthy and larger, for him to send me back another snake that may or may not be male, will most likely have parasites and who knows what else. I'm sorry but that seems idiotic.

Ed has generously offered a refund for return of the snake. Again, I declined because of the safety of the animal.

I have said that I was unwise to ship in this weather, regardless if I knew better or not. I didn't use common sense, and relied on a strangers judgement. My bad, again.
I have not once heard Ed say he was in error for shipping in the winter, why is that?

I'm siding with some of the views on here, to keep the female and either use her later on or sell her. Most have figured that the cost of a black pastel would make up for the vet bills (or most of them, not done yet!), so I will keep her for now.

If there is a way to change the "bad guy" icon, I will do so. He did try to work with me, but I feel that the resolutions were not in the best interest of the animals involved.

 

[ozz465]

What about ed paying the vet bills? seems fair to me .

 

[rusticreptiles]

It does to me too, I've asked him to pay half my costs ($150), have not heard back yet.
It's up to him how he wants this to end.

 

[ozz465]

It does to me too, I've asked him to pay half my costs ($150), have not heard back yet.
It's up to him how he wants this to end.

Thsta seems even more than fair . i realize that the femal is worth more but that was not ure fault, mistakes happen but shipping in that kind of weather seems more responsibility on the seller than the buyer.

 

[rusticreptiles]

Okay, I've asked Ed for a partial refund, this is what he is willing to do, seem fair?

I Think in the interest of the female's health you should keep her and not ship her back in this cold weather. I will send you a male black pastel as soon as we get a decent shipping day to you.


So what I'm saying is you keep everything that you have and I will send another black pastel to you. you will send $50.00 after you recieve the new ball python from me.

The female black pastel that you have is worth $600.00 and are hard to get at that size.

 

[TripleMoonsExotic]

That is above and beyond fair. You just got yourself a pair of Black Pastels $350/shipped. That is beyond generous.

 

[Montoya]

Take it

This is very much a great deal for you. His terms of service that are clearly stated in his ad only would cover the sexing mistake. Raise the female after it gets better and use it or sell it, you will still make out.

 

[ShiffyAME]

very generous, and more than fair! i'd def. say take that with a smile on your face! way to make things more than right ed

Matt Shifflett aka shiffy420

 

[StrictlyExotics]

I think Ed is doing the right thing by making that his offer to you. You should wisely take him up on it and be his customer for life for going above and beyond to keep his customer satisfied.

 

[rusticreptiles]

Offer has been graciously accepted. Thank you Ed for your more than generous resolution.
And thank you to everyone that helped in some form to come to this end.