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Info US GLOBAL EXOTICS SPCA RAID

The bottom line is that animal abusers/neglectors are not going to change their ways after the first time. They will continue treating animals as objects and refuse to care for them properly. They do not deserve nor do they need a second chance. They have already dug themselves a deep enough hole.
 
How many people here really understand the depth of the problem?

In other words, how many understand that there will be NO compromising with PETA, HSUS, or the SPCA? It doesn't matter how clean you keep your cages, how much you feed your animals, or anything else you may do to keep them healthy. Because those organizations consider the KEEPING of reptiles as being abusive. It's not HOW you are keeping them, but the simple fact that you ARE keeping them.

You might as well be trying to compromise with a shark that is intent on eating both of your legs. Will you be pleased with just having one leg afterwards, thinking you won anything?

As for US Global's animals, quite frankly, I think that there needs to be an accounting of exactly how many animals have been "saved" by that confiscation. How many are actually still alive today? If it takes a freedom of information inquiry to get that info, then that needs to be done. THEY have to be accountable for their actions, just as they are apparently demanding that reptile owners must be accountable for theirs. How well are THEY taking care of those animals that they claim they are "saving"?

You are NOT going to win with these people by fighting like gentlemen and ladies in a fair fight. And you certainly are not going to win fighting strictly a defensive battle. Apparently these people have finally set their sights on the reptile industry, and they are NOT going to be satisfied with simply a small segment of the total animals involved being banned from ownership. They will divide and conquer until there is absolutely NOTHING left.

Do you believe you have a right to have reptiles in your home? Well, if someone can tell you "NO", then it's NOT a right at all. It's a revokable privilege. Nothing is a "right" if it can be taken away from you.


Isn't that the truth :thumbsup:

So how are we going to win this battle?
 
My sentiments exactly Rich. THere is no compromise with those organizations and until we organize then we are all sitting ducks, waiting to be the next one that someone decides you aren't doing this or that well enough with your reptile and calls the animal control to You. I still wish to see the receipts on that $10,000. a day to care for those animals as well as do we all beleive that the ruling was today and tonite, all of them have been rehomed. Dang what a miracle. I am sure that petfinder would love to find out how to make that happen for the ones on their sites.
 
Isn't that the truth :thumbsup:

So how are we going to win this battle?



The only we win this battle is to organize and become JUST as powerful as the groups we fight. The "inner-fight" amongst ourselves whether right or wrong, is well, killing us. We cannot even agree to disagree. This is a feeding frenzy for PETA. I mean look at us.

Someone explains plain business logic and then is attacked saying that they support animal abuse. The scary thing is, we all know that he is right when it comes to "business practice". A 1.00 wholesale iguana that nets him 3.00 is NOT worth 50.00 in vet bills no matter how you do the math.

The reasons that this case sets precedence is simply because it pulls at each and every one of our heartstrings. This one special case has all of us up in arms and at each others throat. Its we either care about the 1.00 lizard or we support animal abuse.

I absolutely hated seeing those videos and hearing what was said in them. If they were captive bred animals, I think USGE would need to be lynched but, they werent. Do I believe they deserve a second chance.... No but, I do believe that they were partially set up.

This is a time when we so dearly need to stick together. Our govt is infringing on yet another freedom and its time to fight back. If we dont fight back now, we wont have anything to fight for later.
 
I am not going to get into an argument over this, but I have not made myself look stupid in any way. I have tried to explain the reality of the business and how and why things are done the way they are.

If animals are dead then they should be removed and disposed of properly. If an animal is missing a leg, someone might still buy that animal for whatever reason and that could include being a feeder. If an animal is sick and they are trying to help the animal themselves, that is fine, they are still trying to help it. If they do absolutly nothing then that is wrong. From a business point of view, a business cannot spend $50.00 an a $1.00 animal, they just can't. Maybe that is wrong, but it just isn't practicle. Yes it is a life, but it is also a business that is trying to make money.

From a business point of view, the value of the animal is what determines the extent of medical treatment, if any. Now in my opinion a $2000.00 animal should get some medical attention if something is wrong with it. Saving an animal like that could still be profitable. Spending $50.00 on an iguana is not profitable.

I have said that I don't like to see animals die. I have never said that it is o.k. for animals to die. What I have said is how a things are looked at from a business point of view.

I have also said that I am not defending Global.

There are hobbiest and there are businesses that buy, sell, and breed animals. A hobbiest does it because it is something they enjoy and maybe make a few bucks at. A business has to run things in an effeciant way so they make a profit because that is their livelyhood. No business can profit if they spend more money then they bring in.

I have been in several importers facilities, and have seen something dead just about every time I have gone. Maybe Global was way out of line, could very well be, I wasn't there. I have seen pics, I even posted one of the links to pics in this thread so people could see them. From the pictures that I saw, things did not look good for Global. There were excessive dead animals, I have never been in a place of business that had that many dead animals.

Global should still get their animals back. Good people learn from their mistakes, and bad people go on making the same mistakes. This could have made Global an industry role model if they were given the chance. People diserve second chances, because it can make them better people and it can make them do the right thing.

The reality of something may not be a warm and cozy feeling. As long as animals are imported, some of them will die and it is not necessarily the fault of the importer. Many times animals are under weight and sick before they even get packaged up for shipment. The shipping process can stress animals out and make them even worse. It's not american businesses that in general don't care, it's the people in the third world countries that ship the animals over here. Animal care in some of the other countries is very bad, then the businesses over here get stuck with animals that might not even be able to be saved. Just because a vet isn't called doesn't mean they aren't trying to save the animal.

If someone doesn't like something, then they should do what they can to make it better. That doesn't mean stop it, but find better ways to do it.

Ummmm, You have just failed Business 101.:reddevil:

Actually, it does make sense to spend 50.00 on an animal that cost you 1.00 when you are going to turn around and sell the same animal for 50K (just an example). In my opinion, this whole debacle was nothing but an exercise in GREED.

I do agree we should find better ways to go about the care of import/export of reptiles instead of stopping the whole practice. This may be a good place to begin, "Not being so greedy and only getting as many animals as can comfortably be handled" ;) This would go a long way in stopping PETA in its tracks when we can visably PROVE (with receipts, bills, etc) that we are giving adequate care to our animals according to accepted/documented needs/care. That's how the rest of the animal industry usually fights back.

Finally, how about we blow Global out of the water for causing this mess instead of using them as our "Poster Child" and then turn our sights on PETA before they screw with the rest of us?
 
I'm interested to see the transcripts from the trial. I believe that that is public record and should not be that hard to get, although there will surely be a fee to pay.

For me, it all comes down to this:
If US Global abused animals in there care then I do not support them in any way. I am very concerned about the precedent this case has set. Meaning, who's to say a judge would not deem my own standards of care for my animals to be abuse? It does scare me, and it should scare all of us that have a passion for these animals and all of us that make our living as reptile breeders. We all need to do our part to educate others about reptiles and the care they require in captivity, as well as educate others about the natural history of the animals that we keep. It's our responsibility as reptile breeders to do that and also to "police" our own industry, which is one reason why I support this website. If we fail, then our grandchildren may only be able to see these animals (that we are seemingly taken for granted right now) in picture books and on television.

It's a slippery slope, this situation, and it's tough because I am sure that the majority here DO care for our animals and respect them and give them the best care we know how to. But many of us are also very frightened because we see what is happening right in front of us, and that is our rights to work with these animals is slowly being taken away from us. It's not that we support US Global, not at all, it's that we are concerned that something similar could happen to us.

:iagree::iagree::iagree: We agree more than we disagree. We just are not sure how to go about achieving the goal without ensuring that whatever we are doing is not going to give anyone "carte blanche" to abuse the system again though greed.

Regardless of my "wants," (I love breeding Bps) I still can not find justification in myself to rationalize the pictures that I saw. I would rather stop breeding if I am to understand that that kind and magnitude of senseless death is the result of my greed. I am aware that deaths happen..but I am sorry..it was an overload on my senses for me (and PETA should be brought down for what they do, too. It starts with us. I'll do my small part to spread the word when I am in charge of the CFC campaign next year).
 
Ummmm, You have just failed Business 101.:reddevil:

Actually, it does make sense to spend 50.00 on an animal that cost you 1.00 when you are going to turn around and sell the same animal for 50K (just an example). In my opinion, this whole debacle was nothing but an exercise in GREED.

I do agree we should find better ways to go about the care of import/export of reptiles instead of stopping the whole practice. This may be a good place to begin, "Not being so greedy and only getting as many animals as can comfortably be handled" ;) This would go a long way in stopping PETA in its tracks when we can visably PROVE (with receipts, bills, etc) that we are giving adequate care to our animals according to accepted/documented needs/care. That's how the rest of the animal industry usually fights back.

Finally, how about we blow Global out of the water for causing this mess instead of using them as our "Poster Child" and then turn our sights on PETA before they screw with the rest of us?

Ok You lost me on that one. "spend $50 to make 50k" If you are talking about for the whole year, yes that would make sense but we are not just talking one $50 vet bill here for the thousands+ that went in and out of that facility. I agree that maybe working with less animals may be the answer but like everything else everyone wants more and more.
 
I agree that maybe working with less animals may be the answer but like everything else everyone wants more and more.


Just because I "want" something does not give me the right to own it......when will you be satisfied with the animals you already have? This insatiable hunger to have an exotic that nobody else has is a huge problem in our hobby and keeps the abusers in business.
 
Its funny how a few of you come in here talking about how this is "business", etc... And that we all need to stick together! This is the type of business that will be shutting down our industry. Even Strictly Exotics can understand business logic, but cant even comprehend any other simple logic. Why does an Iguana need to be $10.00? Why does anyone have the "right" to have thousands of neglected animals? Why cant the "business of importing reptiles be changed (notice the word change, not stopped)? Why do thousands of reptiles have to suffer so we have $10 disposable pets?
I also love how we need to "find out how these animals were saved!" So now your requesting a certain level of care for these animals and a standard that you dont expect from US Global? Interesting.
What I cannot believe is instead of the reptile industry saying that businesses cannot be run like US Global and reptiles cannot be treated how they are. We have people saying in this thread "divided we fall", "we must unite"... Which more or less sounds like a defense or at least a little smoke screen to either protect US Global, or protect themselves and their own need to make money off of these disposable imports! Thats f&^%ed up and only makes us look like a bunch of heartless scumbags out to make a buck. Well, which is exactly what PETA and the HSUS want. At least you guys are helping them with your "sincere" attempt at uniting the industry!
 
Its funny how a few of you come in here talking about how this is "business", etc... And that we all need to stick together! This is the type of business that will be shutting down our industry. Even Strictly Exotics can understand business logic, but cant even comprehend any other simple logic. Why does an Iguana need to be $10.00? Why does anyone have the "right" to have thousands of neglected animals? Why cant the "business of importing reptiles be changed (notice the word change, not stopped)? Why do thousands of reptiles have to suffer so we have $10 disposable pets? I also love how we need to "find out how these animals were saved!" So now your requesting a certain level of care for these animals and a standard that you dont expect from US Global? Interesting.
What I cannot believe is instead of the reptile industry saying that businesses cannot be run like US Global and reptiles cannot be treated how they are. We have people saying in this thread "divided we fall", "we must unite"... Which more or less sounds like a defense or at least a little smoke screen to either protect US Global, or protect themselves and their own need to make money off of these disposable imports! Thats f&^%ed up and only makes us look like a bunch of heartless scumbags out to make a buck. Well, which is exactly what PETA and the HSUS want. At least you guys are helping them with your "sincere" attempt at uniting the industry!

EXACTLY!!!!!!! :thumbsup:
 
What Rich wrote here pretty much ends this debate on who's right and who's wrong. The fact is anyone who has animals is wrong according to these groups like PETA & HSUS, they don't want you, zoos, universities nobody having pets and that includes your dog and cat.



How many people here really understand the depth of the problem?

In other words, how many understand that there will be NO compromising with PETA, HSUS, or the SPCA? It doesn't matter how clean you keep your cages, how much you feed your animals, or anything else you may do to keep them healthy. Because those organizations consider the KEEPING of reptiles as being abusive. It's not HOW you are keeping them, but the simple fact that you ARE keeping them.

You might as well be trying to compromise with a shark that is intent on eating both of your legs. Will you be pleased with just having one leg afterwards, thinking you won anything?

As for US Global's animals, quite frankly, I think that there needs to be an accounting of exactly how many animals have been "saved" by that confiscation. How many are actually still alive today? If it takes a freedom of information inquiry to get that info, then that needs to be done. THEY have to be accountable for their actions, just as they are apparently demanding that reptile owners must be accountable for theirs. How well are THEY taking care of those animals that they claim they are "saving"?

You are NOT going to win with these people by fighting like gentlemen and ladies in a fair fight. And you certainly are not going to win fighting strictly a defensive battle. Apparently these people have finally set their sights on the reptile industry, and they are NOT going to be satisfied with simply a small segment of the total animals involved being banned from ownership. They will divide and conquer until there is absolutely NOTHING left.

Do you believe you have a right to have reptiles in your home? Well, if someone can tell you "NO", then it's NOT a right at all. It's a revokable privilege. Nothing is a "right" if it can be taken away from you.


So lets talk about Obama's caskets for clunkers instead.

obama-care.jpg
 
What Rich has stated is true and pretty much should end this debate because it's going nowhere. Tom has clean and well kept your animals may be you are still wrong in the minds of PETA, HSUS & SPCA and nothing will ever change there minds so we minds well be discussing caskets for clunkers since it can save us so much money.
 
Tom Baker,
I apologize for that "crack pipe" statement. I was just upset about your post, reflecting back, that was an informative post that made people think. Again, my apologies.

Randal Berry
 
The video that just aired on our local news channel 11 showed the current living conditions and interviewed several of the caretakers.....I am very impressed at their current level of care.........reminds me of some leopard and bearded dragon breeding setups I have seen.
 
Why is anyone saying that because they are united against us, we have to unite with people who are as low down and scummish as US Global? This makes no sense to me and for once it'd be nice if people could just admit that someone screwed up and not try to talk about conspiracy theories.
 
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