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Bad Guy Howling gale bearded dragons

We should also consider than she may just have the settings on the camera set to make her dragons like that. I've noticed quite a few of her pictured dragons are VERY bright. Seeing some examples of what they look like in normal lighting and normal settings, I'd say something is definitely not right. Whether they are being adjusted in photoshop or not doesn't really matter at this point. I'd say is a safe assumption that she IS misrepresenting the color of her animals to garner higher prices.

Speaking of which, if sjs wouldn't mind, it's been well over 2 weeks. I'd love to see new pics of that dragon, to see if it's glowing in the dark yet like it is in the original photo.
 
2. Again, correct me if I'm wrong (I might've forgotten/missed something), but there is still no proof whatsoever that Nichole did the Photoshopping. The EXIF data says Photoshop was used; it doesn't say who did it. There is no way to prove who did it. For all we know, the buyer could've taken pictures of her own dragon and desaturated them. Please note, I'm not blaming anyone here. I'm just saying that yes, the photo was saved or edited in Photoshop; that's all the EXIF data says.

I think Nicole disagreed with the fact the pic was not photo shopped. then proven that is was.
Regardless, whether she photo shopped that pic or someone else did, you think she didnt see the post where her animal was for sale? dont you think that with that amount of noticeable difference in the coloration in that animal. She would say "hey thats not right" and pull the add!
As far as Sheena photo shopping the animal to make it look duller just to bad mouth nicole, do you read what you type? I can see where it could be done when someone is really upset. but i doubt Sheena would do that and if she did, one of the smart computer girls would have cough onto it by now?



NOTE: Since I know someone will start bashing me for using logic, I am a distant observer of this thread. I have nothing riding on either person being right or wrong. I just get tired of seeing the same logical fallacies over and over and over again everywhere I go.

I dont think i bashed you, just disagreed with some of your thoughts. I believe nicole altered her pics, and there were three others that spoke up an said they bough a dragon from her too and the color was not the same as in the for sale adds. How many people are gonna have the same problem with her until you believe that she altered her pics? Sounds like a reoccurring event. I dont buy the whole color guarantee either (that should be a red flag for anyone!!!).I understand the stress issue but after a week or so most animals settle in there new home just fine. i'll put it this way, i can almost guarantee that my dragons will look just like the picture or better when you receive them. But never the opposite. In the last year almost of retailing on the web i havent ever had a color complaint! Ever
 
I thought the photos where proven to be photo-shopped by a cpl computer savy people here.Who did the photo shopping doesn't matter,Nichole is the 1 selling the dragon(s) as 1 thing when in fact they are another.

As Tom said, do you really think that she didn't know those photos where altered?She knew and she has proven on another site that she is more computer/camera savy then she claims to be here.

I think the point has been proven and it's a dead issue.If you want a dragon a certain color and pay the higher price for that animal then buyer beware when buying from Nichole.
 
Your points were good. There's only one thing I wanted to address. The photo in question about photoshopping was confirmed by the seller to be the photo that she sent. So the seller agreed that the color, saturation, etc was all correct to the one sent. So the colors in the picture are all how they were represented by the seller. We could argue that the photo was saved in photoshop by the buyer and that's why it showed up, but the buyer obviously didn't change saturation because the seller recognized the photo as unaltered from what she sent.

The problem is that the "shadow" from the dragon is blue. I have never seen a blue shadow like that. If the saturation is turned down to where it would normally be gray/black, the dragon looks similar to how it does now. So someone had to have altered the saturation to get the blue glow. If the seller did not do it, then she sent out a picture that someone else altered or else she would have said "that's not the picture I used, the dragon wasn't that bright".

Could you point me to the post where Nicole agreed that picture was the one she sent? I'm not sure I'm remembering the right part.... (And which picture was it? There are so many floating around!)

Shadows can be all manner of colors depending on the lighting. One of the videos I posted on YouTube shows me with a blue shadow. The lighting was half sunlight, half compact fluorescent. I do have my camera set to "vivid colors" because this is the setting that produces the most realistic colors. So the shadow doesn't prove anything.

We should also consider than she may just have the settings on the camera set to make her dragons like that. I've noticed quite a few of her pictured dragons are VERY bright. Seeing some examples of what they look like in normal lighting and normal settings, I'd say something is definitely not right. Whether they are being adjusted in photoshop or not doesn't really matter at this point. I'd say is a safe assumption that she IS misrepresenting the color of her animals to garner higher prices.

Speaking of which, if sjs wouldn't mind, it's been well over 2 weeks. I'd love to see new pics of that dragon, to see if it's glowing in the dark yet like it is in the original photo.

Good point. I keep forgetting about that. :p

And yeah, I'd like to see some updated pics of the dragon as well.

I think Nicole disagreed with the fact the pic was not photo shopped. then proven that is was.
Regardless, whether she photo shopped that pic or someone else did, you think she didnt see the post where her animal was for sale? dont you think that with that amount of noticeable difference in the coloration in that animal. She would say "hey thats not right" and pull the add!

As far as Sheena photo shopping the animal to make it look duller just to bad mouth nicole, do you read what you type? I can see where it could be done when someone is really upset. but i doubt Sheena would do that and if she did, one of the smart computer girls would have cough onto it by now?

I don't understand your first paragraph. Could you rephrase?

I not only read what I type, I actually think about what I'm typing before I type and as I type. I've seen people do worse things for much less. I don't put anything past anyone anymore.

I dont think i bashed you, just disagreed with some of your thoughts. I believe nicole altered her pics, and there were three others that spoke up an said they bough a dragon from her too and the color was not the same as in the for sale adds. How many people are gonna have the same problem with her until you believe that she altered her pics? Sounds like a reoccurring event. I dont buy the whole color guarantee either (that should be a red flag for anyone!!!).I understand the stress issue but after a week or so most animals settle in there new home just fine. i'll put it this way, i can almost guarantee that my dragons will look just like the picture or better when you receive them. But never the opposite. In the last year almost of retailing on the web i havent ever had a color complaint! Ever

You didn't! No worries! :)

Again, that does not prove anything. Had these people posted BOI threads before about their not getting a dragon with the proper colors? Besides, think about it: when it comes out that some famous person had an affair, there are usually a handful of other people who come out and say that they had an affair with the person too. Or when it comes out that some famous person harassed someone else, all of a sudden, 50 people come out and say they were harassed by the person too! It happens every time, like clockwork. Are some of those people telling the truth? Maybe. Or maybe they just want to hop on the bandwagon for any number of reasons (to trash the person, to try to get money out of the deal, just to cause trouble--whatever excuses people come up with).

Now, if these people have mentioned their issues with Nicole before this thread, either on the BOI or elsewhere, then I would believe them. But if not...it sounds like a dogpile.
 
I don't understand your first paragraph. Could you rephrase?
The pic was photo shopped. If Nicole herself didnt do it someone had to. That animal was posted for sale. When Nicole seen the picture on the web, i am sure she knew that animal was not that color. Instead of fixing the problem she let it go. so either:

A. she altered the picture herself and posted it.

which she claims she didnt:rolleyes:

B. someone else altered the picture and posted it for her, :rolleyes: but she still knew that animal didnt look like that in person (real life), and continued to sell that animal knowing it wasn't the way it looked.

So whether she did it or not, no matter what setting the camera is on, does it really matter? she continued to let the ad go and the buyer to buy a animal that doesnt even look like that.

An if she is saying she didnt do it, i am sure she has a partner in crime, and i wonder who that is? Someone else low enough to do dirty business just like her or worse.
 
First, I will admit that I havent followed all 584 post and only really knew about this one because it spilled over into another thread.

BUT

As a breeder and a photographer I manipulate every photo I take. However I do it for the right reasons. I only shoot in RAW so I have to process every photo out of the camera. And as a breeder... nothing makes me happier than getting an email or phone call after the animal has arrived and getting.... "this animal looks better in person than it does in the photo".

I guess it all comes down to ethics. Personally I try to make my photos look just a litte off of the actual animals (little darker ect...) that way if you like the photo.... you LOVE the animal.
 
Not to mention the OBVIOUS difference in the colors of her male breeder in her banner in her ad.That in itself is proof that there's altering going on with her photos.
 
First, I will admit that I havent followed all 584 post and only really knew about this one because it spilled over into another thread.

BUT

As a breeder and a photographer I manipulate every photo I take. However I do it for the right reasons. I only shoot in RAW so I have to process every photo out of the camera. And as a breeder... nothing makes me happier than getting an email or phone call after the animal has arrived and getting.... "this animal looks better in person than it does in the photo".

I guess it all comes down to ethics. Personally I try to make my photos look just a litte off of the actual animals (little darker ect...) that way if you like the photo.... you LOVE the animal.

Like Kevin, I too, am an avid photographer... Portraits, lanscapes, and sports. Most photographers these days naturlly rely on editing photos through Photoshop or any other type of program. I do my best NOT to use programs to enhance my animals, or even use a flash for that matter for this reason.

As said previously by another member, and I am sure Kevin will agree, EXIF viewing only proves that Photoshop was used to edit the Photo. Whether it was cropping or complete enhancement, it was still used. The problem is that if Photoshop is used to crop, EXIF viewing does not give us that info.

This is about ethics and trust. If a customer feels that you dont have any ethics, or doesnt trust you, this is what can happen. If people question your business ethics, naturally they are going to question your trust.

We all know that something was touched in this photo by someone close to Nicole because it was touched prior to the photo going up for sale. I dont think the OP is going to Photoshop Nicoles photo just to bring it up in the BOI or get a refund. To me, that would not make sense.

I have tried to talk to Nicole regarding this transaction and to make the deal whole, from a business standpoint. Even if she didnt want the dragon back in her collection, I feel that only a full refund and an apology would rectify this situation. I hope, in the long run, the advice I have given Nicole will be seriously considered.
 
As said previously by another member, and I am sure Kevin will agree, EXIF viewing only proves that Photoshop was used to edit the Photo. Whether it was cropping or complete enhancement, it was still used. The problem is that if Photoshop is used to crop, EXIF viewing does not give us that info.

Dean but our eyes do ;)
 
Russ, just because my eyes are squinty, doesnt mean I dont know what I am looking at... LoL

I was just stating case that EXIF doesnt tell us what was actually edited. I am with the general consensus regarding the Photoshopping of course because its somewhat obvious.

lol hey i know not joke about eye sight with Asians :thumbsup:

but back on topic Nicole photo was edited to make the dragon look way more colorful than what it actually was to make a sale but i do know what u mean
 
Like Kevin, I too, am an avid photographer... Portraits, lanscapes, and sports. Most photographers these days naturlly rely on editing photos through Photoshop or any other type of program. I do my best NOT to use programs to enhance my animals, or even use a flash for that matter for this reason.

As said previously by another member, and I am sure Kevin will agree, EXIF viewing only proves that Photoshop was used to edit the Photo. Whether it was cropping or complete enhancement, it was still used. The problem is that if Photoshop is used to crop, EXIF viewing does not give us that info.

This is about ethics and trust. If a customer feels that you dont have any ethics, or doesnt trust you, this is what can happen. If people question your business ethics, naturally they are going to question your trust.

Yep and like I said... if you run the EXIF on any of my photos... chance are it will show its been edited... but it wont tell you what was done.

Dean but our eyes do ;)

Not if your good. The reason I shoot RAW is if Im just a little off on the exposure I can correct it without any JPG artifacts showing up. When it comes to my photography I am a perfectionist.... at one time I had to be or I didnt get paid.
 
I will apologize in advance ...

Russ, just because my eyes are squinty, doesnt mean I dont know what I am looking at... LoL

Judging from your avatar, Dean, your eyes aren't squinty at all ... they're stereoscopic! From the right, from the left, to the front and from behind, you know what you're looking at :)

Ok, back OT ...

Yep and like I said... if you run the EXIF on any of my photos... chance are it will show its been edited... but it wont tell you what was done.
Agreed. However, as pointed out ... Nicole adamantly stated repeatedly she has NO Photoshop program on her computer. She had no explanation as to WHY the EXIF data even showed "Adobe Photoshop CS Windows"... not even to defend simply cropping. I have a Photoshop program on one PC, none on the newer laptop I also use. I too use the program for minor photo editing/fine tuning on the PC.

I would never say I don't even have the program when clearly my EXIF would show my Adobe program since I simply download them from my camera onto the program ... even if it's only to open, crop and save.

Therein lies the problem. No explanation, only denial ... IMO.



(PS - Kevin, your photos are always absolutely stunning and so true to nature's colors. Just gorgeous.)
 
Like Hilda said, Nichole denied even haveing that program on her computer when she clearly does.I dont see the sense in altering a pic in anyway when your trying to be an honest seller
 
RETRACT OF EARLIER STATEMENT

I know this thread is old and washed up but I had to get on here and apologize to Nicole. I no longer believe my dragon image was altered to be made to look more beautiful than my dragon really was. After a while of him settling in and getting "unstressed" I have a gorgeous male citrus hypo! He was sold me for a great price! I apologize for my previous statements. Nicole's dragons are great quality and I hope to do business with her again in the future!
 
I know this thread is old and washed up but I had to get on here and apologize to Nicole. I no longer believe my dragon image was altered to be made to look more beautiful than my dragon really was. After a while of him settling in and getting "unstressed" I have a gorgeous male citrus hypo! He was sold me for a great price! I apologize for my previous statements. Nicole's dragons are great quality and I hope to do business with her again in the future!

A picture speak a thousand words.
 
I will get one

I will get one up. Sadly I do not have the original pic that Nicole had posted of the dragon not that he looks anything like that now 3 months later anyway.

I still can't get over the difference in the picture that she had on her site and how he arrived. It did not even look like the same dragon. It actually looked almost white or a very light gray. I guess it was just stress.
 
[I think the BOI is bad news/QUOTE]
THIS IS A QUOTE FROM HOWLIN GALE. SHOULDN`T SHE NOW BE BANNED? LIKE MOONSTONE WAS. I MEAN CAN EVERYONE VOTE ON THIS? I`M SURE NOONE WANTS HER HERE. THIS MANY PEOPLE ALL GETTING BUNK DRAGONS!!!!THIS CAN`T BE A COINCIDENCE...PLEASE MAKE HER GO AWAY SHE IS BAD BAD BAD. AND THIS IS SO SAD...THE POOR ANIMALS...SOMEONE LIKE THIS SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED ON HERE. I AM NEW TO FAUNA AND I HAVE READ TO MANY THREADS TO COUNT ABOUT THIS LADY DOING SO MUCH BAD..JUST LET EVERYONE VOTE HER OFF...
 
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