Bad Guy Bad Business Deal - Mike West - Don't Make the same mistake I did!!

[juleannh]

I feel so stupid and am out SO MUCH money that I am writing this out of desperation with no other place to turn. In April 2009 I answered an add in my local Exchange paper for "CO-OP Breeding Program". I spoke initially with Tim West and made an appt to meet with his son, Mike West. Without doing my research first (as I should have), I invested ALOT of money to buy breeding Bearded Dragons and Corn Snakes. The business deal was that Mike West would provide all the setup supplies and buy any babies my animals produced. I bought it hook, line and sinker!! (When I asked Tim West once about the excessive amount of $$ that I paid I was told that I didn't just buy the animals, but the 'business opportunity')

Fast forward a year now and here is where I am: after following their advice to the letter, I have several dead beardies (for various mysterious reasons) that have not been replaced (as promised), my animals are not breeding/laying and the few eggs that are being laid are duds. At this point I can't continue to put any more money into this losing enterprise (along with losing my job and can't afford the food bills)

Yes, I was able to produce a couple small clutches which Mike did buy from me, but not even close to a fraction of the numbers/return on my money I was presented during his sales pitch to me.

Yes, Mike and his Dad, Tim, have been accessible for questions and advice on the problems and lack of production I have experienced, but that help and even them answering their phones has stopped since I told them I could not financially continue with this and asked if they would please buy back my remaining these animals (I was not asking for all my money back, just a percentage).

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE don't make the same mistake I did and do your research into realistic breeding and raising costs (of both animals and care), what you can realistically expect to make (if you want to do this as a business) and do your research into Mike and Tim West.

I've made some VERY bad decisions and guess I will have to pay the price for this, but I don't want anyone else to get into this situation.

 

[deborahbroadus]

Did you sign a Legal Contract can you post a copy here? Do you have any pictures of the quality of animals he was selling you..individual and group pics would do.

 

[RJK890]

I would like to hear the other side of this story.

Have Mike, and Tim been made aware of this thread?

 

[LauraB]

I'm sorry your experience with the West's turned out so badly. I can't say I'm surprised; they're both unscrupulous liars and thieves. I hope there's a legal avenue you can persue.

Thank you, though, for bringing their latest scam to the BOI - people of their calibre need all the exposure anyone can give them.

Buyer, seller, potential entrepreneur .... BEWARE!

Here are 3 other bad guy threads about them:
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=130312&highlight=mike+west

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73724

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=115833

 

[chongorojo]

I don't get how you can claim them to be bad guys? If they truly beleived that they were helping you and sharing their knowledge of how to make money breeding reptiles with you that makes them great guys IMO. On the other hand If they KNEW they were setting you up for failure and charged you for their "advice" then yes I would call them bad guys. But if they did not then for what ever reason you could not make it work, commitment, husbandry lack of supplies, breeding animals too young or not healthy enough then that lies squarely on your sholders... I personally need A LOT more info to understand why they are the reason you failled breeding your reptiles.. what did they commit to you? How many animals did they sell/supply you with? At what prices? Are/were the 3 of you EX-partners? Do they breed reptiles or just own a reptile shop that you were a customer at?

 

[hhmoore]

Did you have prior experience with either corns or beardies?
Was there any expressed guarantee on production?
Any agreement, prior to sale, regarding buy back of initial stock & supplies?

Maybe I'm missing something, but what has Mike West done wrong?
You've stated that they remained available and helpful until - a year later - you tried to get them to buy you out.
I don't mean to rub salt in the wound; but, since you admit that you made very bad decisions, it seems like you are just trying to blame somebody else for them. Without a more detailed explanation of what they told you & sold you, I see a person (like so many that jump into making this hobby a "business") that spent more than she should have, based on expectations of high returns that were never realized. You haven't even said anything that would make me think that the responsibility for the shortcomings would fall on anybody but yourself.

I probably should have sugar coated some of those statements a bit, I guess; but, I suspect it all would have been said at some point. If there is more to this story, that will better explain your perspective & the title of this thread, I'd love to see the details.


Have you informed the Wests of this thread, so they can present their side of things?

 

[hhmoore]

Hmmm - LauraB's post reminds me that gut responses are not necessarily the best option (especially when it's past my bedtime).
I'm still interested in the rest of the details, though.

 

[deborahbroadus]

Hmmm - LauraB's post reminds me that gut responses are not necessarily the best option (especially when it's past my bedtime).
I'm still interested in the rest of the details, though.

I am too, because while they may be "bad guys." If they provided a contract that was fair, and some quality animals to start..then she doesn't really have a valid complaint, imo.

However, if the contract was obviously skewed in their favor, over much, and they were providing damaged, ill, or low quality animals, they would have some share of the blame for the OP's failure.

 

[chongorojo]

amkes you go hmm...

with harald and deborah. laura's post (thanks laura) shines some light on what kind of people these guys really are, BUT I still want to know the run down for 2 reasons. One is for other newbies who are lead down the ITS A GOLD MINE path by someone looking to do a little scammin' and to continue to shed the light on what kind of people were dealing with here. As we always want to see proof of what transpired (sp?) I must ask where's the beef

 

[LauraB]

LauraB's post reminds me that gut responses are not necessarily the best option

You're right, Harald. I apologize if my gut response (calling them unscrupulous liars and thieves) was premature.

Given the circumstances and the other unfavorable threads about them, I suppose I have to wonder why they didn't just purchase and breed their own dragons if they were interested in buying clutches, presumeably to sell?
Why the "business opportunity"? It ain't rocket science.

It just doesn't make sense.

 

[hhmoore]

Laura...I was talking about MY gut response, lol. I posted without so much as looking up the names. Knew I'd seen them before, but opted to respond to the post at face value.

 

[hhmoore]

Having already stuck my foot in it, I'm going to forego any further speculation on what could have been until things are laid out in black and white in this thread.

 

[juleannh]

All,

There are MANY, MANY details I chose not to include in this posting that have brought me to this point. I am not saying that they (the West's) are liars or cons. I do, however, believe that the simplicity of making the kind of money that was presented/laid out to me was VERY overstated.

I'm saying it was a bad business deal for me and before anyone else gets involved with the Wests in this way I recommend them doing their homework.

Had I known of this site prior to investing in this 'business' and read the previous comments/posts regarding doing business with the Wests, I would not have done so.

Ultimately I am an adult and my decisions are my responsibility. I am simply trying to warn people about my experience with this situation.

 

[spyder79]

I feel so stupid and am out SO MUCH money that I am writing this out of desperation with no other place to turn. In April 2009 I answered an add in my local Exchange paper for "CO-OP Breeding Program". I spoke initially with Tim West and made an appt to meet with his son, Mike West. Without doing my research first (as I should have), I invested ALOT of money to buy breeding Bearded Dragons and Corn Snakes. The business deal was that Mike West would provide all the setup supplies and buy any babies my animals produced. I bought it hook, line and sinker!! (When I asked Tim West once about the excessive amount of $$ that I paid I was told that I didn't just buy the animals, but the 'business opportunity')

Fast forward a year now and here is where I am: after following their advice to the letter, I have several dead beardies (for various mysterious reasons) that have not been replaced (as promised), my animals are not breeding/laying and the few eggs that are being laid are duds. At this point I can't continue to put any more money into this losing enterprise (along with losing my job and can't afford the food bills)

Yes, I was able to produce a couple small clutches which Mike did buy from me, but not even close to a fraction of the numbers/return on my money I was presented during his sales pitch to me.

Yes, Mike and his Dad, Tim, have been accessible for questions and advice on the problems and lack of production I have experienced, but that help and even them answering their phones has stopped since I told them I could not financially continue with this and asked if they would please buy back my remaining these animals (I was not asking for all my money back, just a percentage).

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE don't make the same mistake I did and do your research into realistic breeding and raising costs (of both animals and care), what you can realistically expect to make (if you want to do this as a business) and do your research into Mike and Tim West.

I've made some VERY bad decisions and guess I will have to pay the price for this, but I don't want anyone else to get into this situation.

So the essence of what you are saying is you purchased a breeding group of bearded dragons and a breeding group of corn snakes. What is your experience with either of these animals? What were your tank setups (lighting and heating and size)? What did you feed them? Did you supplement their diets with any calcium powder or vitamins? Did you up the females feeding before breeding and while cycling eggs?

YOu said that they were both helpful answering questions you had. So what did they really do wrong? breeding reptiles takes more than just buying animals that are breeder age and have bred in the past. There is a lot of specialized care that goes into their environments and their diets for breeding. The only thing in your entire post you have as a gripe towards Mike and Tim west is that they would not buy back animals that you have admittedly had for over a year, attempted breeding, and inadvertently caused the death of at least a few of them. You really should be ashamed for creating a bad guy thread over this because they did nothing wrong, if anything you seem to be the one at fault for having not done the research that you needed to do prior to taking on a project like this.

 

[Suncoast Herpetological]

If you can, it would be interesting to see the agreement you signed for the "co-op"

Also, what did the two breeding groups you purchased consist of? Number of animals, age etc...

 

[Southern Wolf]

Question I have is this....

Did you have any prior experience in reptiles? Or was this just a business venture for you?

 

[spyder79]

Question I have is this....

Did you have any prior experience in reptiles? Or was this just a business venture for you?

Exactly

 

[juleannh]

There was no written contract (shame on me).

I had no prior experience with reptiles. Yes as I have stated above, this was presented to me as a business opportunity. The information regarding how easy this 'business' would be and the potential for income and amount was all provided to me verbally and I had no reason at the time to believe differently.

I worked VERY hard at trying to make this work. I have done everything the Wests (the experts) have instructed me to do. I care very much these animals and I wish greatly that things had turned out differently with all of this. I really wanted this to work.

AGAIN folks, all I am trying to do is warn people to do their homework if presented with this sort of 'business offer/opportunity' by the Wests (or anyone else for that matter).

 

[spyder79]

There was no written contract (shame on me).

I had no prior experience with reptiles. Yes as I have stated above, this was presented to me as a business opportunity. The information regarding how easy this 'business' would be and the potential for income and amount was all provided to me verbally and I had no reason at the time to believe differently.

I worked VERY hard at trying to make this work. I have done everything the Wests (the experts) have instructed me to do. I care very much these animals and I wish greatly that things had turned out differently with all of this. I really wanted this to work.

AGAIN folks, all I am trying to do is warn people to do their homework if presented with this sort of 'business offer/opportunity' by the Wests (or anyone else for that matter).

well once again per your own admitted information this situation didnt even remotely require a bad guy post. Maybe a info post if that. But in all honesty the only bad guy in this situation (per your own information) is you for not having even a remote clue of what you were getting into. And for you to get mad an make a bad guy post just because they would not buy the animals back after a year is laughable. Go to any store you purchased an item from after having had said item for a year and see if they take it back. Good luck, hopefully it was a learning experience for you but in this instance the wests are not at fault for your lack of research and planning.

 

[Southern Wolf]

There was no written contract (shame on me).

I had no prior experience with reptiles. Yes as I have stated above, this was presented to me as a business opportunity. The information regarding how easy this 'business' would be and the potential for income and amount was all provided to me verbally and I had no reason at the time to believe differently.

And herein lies the problem.

This sounds just like another one of those "get rich quick schemes". Im gonna go out on a limb here and say that 98% of us here that breed and sell our animals do so because we love the animals. We started as hobbiest then worked our way up to breeder and if we are lucky... full time business.

I will use myself as an example.... I have been keeping herps since 1991 and didn't start to breed them till 2006. I still am not showing a profit (mainly cause I keep buying more animals) and I consider myself lucky if I can sell enough to cover food bills and upkeep.

Running a breeding operation is not an easy task. It takes alot of hard work and dedication and there is NO GUARANTEE of a sale. Just look at all the 2009 babies still for sale. The 2010 breeding season is upon us and folks still have 2009 babies left.