Info Yaz Mansour and the dead Boa

[deborahbroadus]

The death of the snake falls outside the guarantee time, therefore I feel Yaz is well within his right to ask for a copy of a vet report, and/or necropsy reports.

Regardless of how rashly he spoke in the beginning.


*Yes, he should keep his word..but...there is nothing wrong with wanting proof that one is to blame.

 

[deborahbroadus]

Lets say there was no Autopsy "Who would be right then?

No autopsy report? Well, as Kelli stated, the death of the snake fell outside the guaranteed time frame. The buyer would have no case, in your theoretical situation.

 

[Payara]

No autopsy report? Well, as Kelli stated, the death of the snake fell outside the guaranteed time frame. The buyer would have no case, in your theoretical situation.

 

[tinmantribe5]

Well put Deborah

 

[lanceheads]

The death of the snake falls outside the guarantee time, therefore I feel Yaz is well within his right to ask for a copy of a vet report, and/or necropsy reports.

However, that snake was obviously sick when David recieved it.
No way did it contact pneumona and die after in 2 1/2 day's in his care.
You are correct though, it met Yaz' Terms. Just a crappy way to follow-up on a business deal on Yaz' part.

Randal Berry

 

[deborahbroadus]

However, that snake was obviously sick when David recieved it.
No way did it contact pneumona and die after in 2 1/2 day's in his care.
You are correct though, it met Yaz' Terms. Just a crappy way to follow-up on a business deal on Yaz' part.

Randal Berry

Did I miss a Vet report somewhere? I thought third party quotations were not allowable?

Can someone point me to the Vet report just in case I missed it?

Pictures aren't always reliable..

 

[tinmantribe5]

Ok even if it did fall out of the Guidelines for Yaz who by the way I like so this is not personal sorry Yaz but is this Deal worth loosing 10 deals down the road you have to ride the storm out and take the Moral High Road because we Know Yaz you are a Good Person so lets all do the right thing!

 

[lanceheads]

Did I miss a Vet report somewhere? I thought third party quotations were not allowable?

Can someone point me to the Vet report just in case I missed it?

Pictures aren't always reliable..

What third party quotation?


Randal Berry

 

[hhmoore]

Look, I'm sorry for accusing anything towards David. He is a great guy and seems like he knows what he's doing. I told him several times though I wanted to see the report before I would send a refund. He kept saying "lets get this over with and just issue the refund and be done with it". I dont want to refund anything until I see the report. I dont believe anyones "word" I need documents, thats how I am. I could easily say "my vet or vet's say this, so I want a refund" I could be lying and no one would know. ANYONE could easily say that or here the words of the vet incorrectly or just change them completely. Therefore, I want documents stating that was his cause of death not words passed to me with no evidence.

Yaz, I wouldn't have much of a problem with you insisting on seeing the necropsy report before you issue the refund...if you had required that from the start. However, the way things are presented, it seems that you discouraged the necropsy, and were willing to send a partial refund He agreed to Paypal me back $300 and we both hoped to learn more from the report once it came out. Admittedly, I haven't been able to follow this closely, but your initial responses did not dispute that statement from the buyer's first post. Now, I'm seeing that the amount is down to $250, and you're still fighting it - including some comments about it not looking like your snake, and (I think I saw this) not being sure your snake is the one being evaluated? Really? Even after the post mortem shots that were posted here?

Dean, my gurantees on sales are, Live arrival gurantee. However I only gurantee that if the buyer calls me IMMEDIATELY after delivery.

I'm not arguing against your terms...but that second sentence is somewhat questionable. You spoke to the buyer within an hour of delivery - are you really suggesting that, because he didn't call you before that, it is a problem? As it happens, you seem to have gotten an initial report of satisfaction from the customer...so, from a technical standpoint, you met your terms.
Granted, it seems David missed some serious issues in his initial inspection - things which should have been communicated to you promptly (though, realistically, with standing by a requirement of IMMEDIATE phone calls, it seems you don't want a thorough inspection). Further, IMO, David should have contacted you the next morning - when he did notice the severity of the condition.
The situation is unfortunate...the snake is dead; but, it requires you make a judgement call. Do you stand firm on your terms (Live arrival, only) and your opinion that the snake was healthy when you sent it? Or do you consider the situation, and accept (at least partial) responsibility if the necropsy results indicate an illness that predates David's receipt of the snake?

 

[Jt80]

No autopsy report? Well, as Kelli stated, the death of the snake fell outside the guaranteed time frame. The buyer would have no case, in your theoretical situation.

Yaz, is that why you told him not to bother with a necropsy?

 

[Yaz23]

I TOLD HIM, when he called me saying that the snake was sick Thursday afternoon to contact me after the vet appointment so I can know whats wrong with him and give him compensation for part of the vet check. Then Friday I was called and said the snake was dead. At that point I told him that I wouldnt bother doing a necropsy because they are extremely expensive (I didnt know he had a 'hook up' to get it done for $65 which is amazingly cheap somehow). So considering I thought he was going to pay hundreds for a necropsy it didnt make sense to have one done when he paid $390 shipped for my boa so I was telling him I wouldnt do one because that would be just spending more money on his end. I was planning on giving him a partial refund regardless if there was a necropsy done or not. He knew that and I told that to him on the phone. First he wanted $300 back, then $250, and I only ended up getting $227 for that boa after all the expenses. On top of that he was threatening me that if I didnt give him a refund immediately that he'd bring this public, (why would bringing this public affect me)? I stand my grounds and know my boa was healthy. I check them thoroughly before I ship them out to insure they are ok. The boa even had a very big poop/pee the day before I shipped him out and the fecal was solid fine and not runny.

I will say this again, THERE IS NO VET REPORT ON DAVIDS SIDE. He simply told me on the phone that he was TOLD by DVMS (which happen to be his friends by the way) that the boa had pneumonia. There is NO physical paperwork or proof OF ANYTHING. David informed me that tissue samples were taken and sent out as well. So to me pnuemonia was a speculation to the DVMs not actual 100% facts from samples considering they havent even been looked at yet. I am NOT believing anything anyone tells me until I see paperwork stating the cause of death and paperwork. From there I will show my personal vet to explain everything to me.

I only gurantee Live Arrival. He arrived alive, healthy, problem free, and happy. From that point on, I am not responsible nor can I be held liable for anything after. He arrived Tuesday at 9:15am, I was informed he was sick Thursday at 3:56 pm, and was then informed Friday at 11:56 am he was dead. I didnt hear anything about him being sick any time Tuesday or Wednesday and even all of Thursday up until the call at 4pm. So as crappy as I can be, I can just say "I am not going to issue any refund because this isnt my problem. There isnt a gurantee besides live arrival." However, I am not that kind of guy. I have been on the other side of this situation and it wasnt fun. I am fine with giving David a partial refund.

This is the break down of the deal.

I was sent $390 via Paypal. From all the expenses (paypal fee, plastic container, shipping box, shipping cost) of this deal I was left with $227 for that boa. So basically out of the $390 I was sent, I was personally left with $227 for my boa. Why would I send a refund more than I even got for the boa?

 

[Chrisw]

This is the break down of the deal.

I was sent $390 via Paypal. From all the expenses (paypal fee, plastic container, shipping box, shipping cost) of this deal I was left with $227 for that boa. So basically out of the $390 I was sent, I was personally left with $227 for my boa. Why would I send a refund more than I even got for the boa?

Sent to:
Riyad Mansour
Email:
[email protected]
Amount sent:
-$390.00 USD
Fee amount:
$0.00 USD
Net amount:
-$390.00 USD

YaY for Paypal fees.

 

[StrictlyExotics]

This is the break down of the deal.

I was sent $390 via Paypal. From all the expenses (paypal fee, plastic container, shipping box, shipping cost) of this deal I was left with $227 for that boa. So basically out of the $390 I was sent, I was personally left with $227 for my boa. Why would I send a refund more than I even got for the boa?

Yaz,

Let me understand this perfectly clear... Are you willing to send 227.00 to David right now to clear this up if David is willing to accept it?

I am sure David will provide the necropsy results as he stated it somewhere in this thread. I am pretty sure he even said that he would reissue the funds back to you if it showed that his husbandry caused the death of the snake.

In all honesty, I really think that if you both open channels of communication between the two of you, you both can get this problem solved relatively reasonably. Honestly, it sucks for the both of you and I can emphathize with the two of you.

 

[Yaz23]

Herald, you said: "Granted, it seems David missed some serious issues in his initial inspection - things which should have been communicated to you promptly (though, realistically, with standing by a requirement of IMMEDIATE phone calls, it seems you don't want a thorough inspection). Further, IMO, David should have contacted you the next morning - when he did notice the severity of the condition."

I need a call IMMEDIATELY after arrival to insure the snake was alive and not dead. From that point on, if there was a problem with the snake I sent I should have been informed THAT DAY of arrival. Not 2 1/2 days later. So he had the rest of Tuesday, ALL day Wednesday, and most of Thursday to tell me that boa had a problem. He didnt. So he had plenty of time to look the boa in and out for any problems. I shouldnt get a call days later that he's sick and then passes away the following day. I shouldnt refund anything from this situation. I am not a jerk though, and have told him before the snake even died (when he said the snake was sick and he was taking him to the vet) that I wanted to know what the vet said and would pay him a partial amount for the vet check even though I didnt have to. Then the snake dies the following day, and I need refund everything? I dont need to refund a penny. I am being nice and refunding what I think is fair. He pushes "send me this $XXX now, or this goes public" what the hell is that about? Blackmail or something? I dont need to send anything, I am agreeing to send some amount just because I am a nice guy and dont like the situation. I LOST THE SNAKE, not you. You lost money, money comes back, my beautiful boa I loved, DIED. What sucks even more is he was 'disposed of'. Thanks so much. You could have at least buried him. He was my pet, all my snakes are my pets not some breeders that make me money.

 

[Yaz23]

Chris, how long have you used Paypal? You dont see the fees on your end, YOU sent ME the payment. I get the fee from the transaction.

May 2, 2010
This is the payment from David Freeman for the male boa. Thanks, Chris
Payment From Chris Wiggins Completed Details
Payment From Chris Wiggins 1BP34771XN069501R Choose action0Print shipping label Add Tracking Info Mark as shipped
Print shipping label
Add Tracking Info
Mark as shipped
GROSS: $390.00 - $11.61 FEE = NET AMOUNT: $378.39 USD

 

[tinmantribe5]

3% for paypal

 

[hhmoore]

I will say this again, THERE IS NO VET REPORT ON DAVIDS SIDE. He simply told me on the phone that he was TOLD by DVMS (which happen to be his friends by the way) that the boa had pneumonia. There is NO physical paperwork or proof OF ANYTHING. David informed me that tissue samples were taken and sent out as well. So to me pnuemonia was a speculation to the DVMs not actual 100% facts from samples considering they havent even been looked at yet. I am NOT believing anything anyone tells me until I see paperwork stating the cause of death and paperwork. From there I will show my personal vet to explain everything to me.

I take it you have never had a necropsy done...during the post mortem exam, obvious existing conditions are identified: ie pneumonia, intestinal blockage, tumors, inflammation, "fatty liver", etc. Tissue sample are sent out for further testing - things that cannot be verified by visual exam. They don't generally prepare a report until the findings are returned, because they don't want to have to come back and say, Well, what really happened is this.
Does it really matter if he gets a discounted rate on the procedure, or if he is "friends" with the vet? I've been friends with my vet for about 20 yrs now - does that make her diagnoses or impressions invalid?
You could ask David if the vets will provide a preliminary report, based on the physical findings.

Why would I send a refund more than I even got for the boa[/B]?

Because, as you said, you've been on the other side of this.
As a customer, would it matter to you how much the seller made on the deal? If you paid $390 for a snake, and it died within days due to pre-existing condition, what would your response be to the breakdown you just provided? Would you think it was reasonable that you were offered less than 60% of what you paid?

Did you initially agree to the $300 refund, as indicated by David in his original post?

 

[hhmoore]

I LOST THE SNAKE, not you. You lost money, money comes back, my beautiful boa I loved, DIED. What sucks even more is he was 'disposed of'. Thanks so much. You could have at least buried him. He was my pet, all my snakes are my pets not some breeders that make me money.

The beautiful boa that you loved wasn't yours any more. You sold it. I can absolutely understand being upset over its death, but you don't really have any say in what is done with the body. It might be an offense in your eyes; but I suspect that David didn't share your attachment, due to its untimely death. Even if he would have buried it, unless he specifically requested the body back, I don't think they would have saved it for him after they were done with the post mortem exam (think about it - the snake was essentially fileted, with all the organs removed...would you have wanted the carcass back to bury in your yard, without knowing if there were communicable pathogens?). Don't take this as a personal attack - I've sold and given away animals that I'd had for longer than the two years you had that snake, and been devastated by the news that they had died some years later. I know where you're coming from.

 

[Yaz23]

Just wanting to correct myself, I meant to spell Harald not Herald (I apologize for the spelling error).

Harald, you stated: "Did you initially agree to the $300 refund, as indicated by David in his original post?"

I told him I wanted the report before I sent a refund. I told him that many times, he insisted "just send Chris the money back and be done with this" I dont him I will give him a partial refund because of the situation but want the report. It was around and around about that and how he knows everyone but I NEVER received one bit of proof about anything.

As much as I want to believe everything, words mean nothing when it comes to refunding money. I can simply say to him "My vet checked the boa out and he was healthy so oh well" if I dont have proof to back that up, then its all words. I have yet to see any receipts from the necropsy done. I find it odd that there wasnt any paperwork involved. No receipts? No paperwork? Nothing?

Whats weird is that if I bought a snake and it died and was going to ask for a refund I would take TONS of pictures of the dead snake, the cage, the whole deal not just 4 shots of a close up of the head. You cant tell what the inside of that cage looks like. The cage looks very small for that size of snake and the the cage looks very dirty in the pics based on the floor of the cage. If it was urates all over the cage and snake why not take pics of the whole cage and snake to show that? Maybe thats not even urates? Im not trying to nit-pick things but honestly if you bought a snake and it died why the hell would you only take a couple pics of the head? I'd take tons of pics, it only takes a minute and that way you can show lots of pics not just 4.

 

[Yaz23]

Spelling error above: I said "I dont him" I meant "I told him"