Info Yaz Mansour and the dead Boa

[Chrisw]

Chris, how long have you used Paypal? You dont see the fees on your end, YOU sent ME the payment. I get the fee from the transaction.

May 2, 2010
This is the payment from David Freeman for the male boa. Thanks, Chris
Payment From Chris Wiggins Completed Details
Payment From Chris Wiggins 1BP34771XN069501R Choose action0Print shipping label Add Tracking Info Mark as shipped
Print shipping label
Add Tracking Info
Mark as shipped
GROSS: $390.00 - $11.61 FEE = NET AMOUNT: $378.39 USD

Post the details, the way I sent payment should have been fee free. Example.

Payment Sent to:

[email protected]

Total Amount:
$23.25 USD
Fee amount:
-$0.97 USD
Net amount:
$22.28 USD

 

[Yaz23]

Here:

Payment Received (Unique Transaction ID #1BP34771XN069501R)


Business Name:
Chris Wiggins
Buyer Email:
[email protected]
Payment Sent to:

[email protected]
Business Contact Information

Customer Service Email: [email protected]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Amount received:
$390.00 USD
Fee amount:
-$11.61 USD
Net amount:
$378.39 USD



Issue a refund

You have up to 60 days to refund the payment and get the fees back.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:
May 2, 2010
Time:
18:27:52 PDT
Status:
Completed

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Subject:
You've got money!
Note:
This is the payment from David Freeman for the male boa. Thanks, Chris
Payment Type:
Instant

 

[Chrisw]

Ok I apologise, the way I sent payment shouldn't have removed the fee.

 

[Yaz23]

No problem. Sorry if I seemed rude in my response to you, the way I typed it sounded rude, I wasnt meaning it to sound rude though, just wanted to make sure you understood and didnt think I added "paypal fee" just for the hell of it. I was charged the paypal fee.

 

[KelliH]

However, that snake was obviously sick when David recieved it.
No way did it contact pneumona and die after in 2 1/2 day's in his care.
You are correct though, it met Yaz' Terms. Just a crappy way to follow-up on a business deal on Yaz' part.

Randal Berry

I get that but without some type of report from a vet stating that the snake had pneumonia I can understand why Yaz might hesitate to send a refund. It would be to the benefit of his customer to go ahead and post a copy of the vet report.

 

[CarolinaClassicDragons]

Lots of delay tactics being thrown all over this thread. First the snake that is dead in the pics is not the same snake, I didnt take enough pics, I didnt call right away (ridiculous!) Whats the time limit Yaz, within 10 minutes? The phone call more important than getting the snake out of the cramped box?? Blatant lies and unanswered questions. I am not going to play the back and forth game. There'e enough drama in the BOI section. Lets stick to the science and to the integrity of the trade.

Any of you that think just sticking to a guaranteed live arrival when dealing with reptiles arent really putting much thought into the type of animals we are dealing with here. These are animals that hide symptoms. They dont run to the door one day wagging their tail and the next day, when they dont coming running, you know something is wrong. Every reputable breeder/dealer should hold themselves to the highest of standards and listen to professionals. The professionals all say this snake died of a disease that it had BEFORE it shipped!! That is what the preliminary findings indicated. What part of that dont you get? You can sit across from me and tell me that if you were the buyer, you wouldnt expect your money back? Then step up and tell me who you are. Its a shame to think that I would be screwed out of $390 had I not gotten the necropsy done.

I dont have a "hook up" for getting necropsies done. I am fortunate enough to live in a capital city that has the state diagnostic lab just minutes from my house. Anyone living here can just walk in and everyone pays the same fee depending on the size of the animal. Yaz, I am really surprised that you would question the integrity and quality of service offered by these well trained DVM's. Just keep digging that hole deeper. And for the rest of you that seem to know EVERYTHING about how EVERY lab handles their necropsies.... I didnt get any paperwork other than what I mentioned earlier. The business card with the chief diagnosticians name and info and on the back was a sticker affixed to it with a bar code and the case #. and some other internal information. The name of the place is Rollins Animal Disease Diagnostic Laboratory and it is the veterinary division of the NC Dept. of Agriculture and Consumer Services.

So Yaz, you ready to jump on the phone tomorrow to conference with the chief DVM or not? You really dont want to hear it do you? I like Harald's idea and I will ask tomorrow to see if they can give me a preliminary report based on the physical findings. Tell you what, paypal me the $229 or whatever the exact amount it is today that you have calculated (first you agreed to send me $300 by Friday night, then $250 by 11:00 last night) and be done with this. Continue to fight it and I want the full $390 back. You will get your documentation when I get it but I am not waiting for it.

 

[CarolinaClassicDragons]

Look, I'm sorry for accusing anything towards David. He is a great guy and seems like he knows what he's doing. I told him several times though I wanted to see the report before I would send a refund. He kept saying "lets get this over with and just issue the refund and be done with it". I dont want to refund anything until I see the report. I dont believe anyones "word" I need documents, thats how I am. I could easily say "my vet or vet's say this, so I want a refund" I could be lying and no one would know. ANYONE could easily say that or here the words of the vet incorrectly or just change them completely. Therefore, I want documents stating that was his cause of death not words passed to me with no evidence.

Get your evidence tomorrow morning and lets call the vet! What time can you be available?

 

[Yaz23]

I would like documentation tonight (pictures) of that business card and the case number that you have. I know you typed it out, but I want to see some pics of it posted on this thread now.

Call me anytime tomorrow before 5pm. As for everyone questioning you, its the fact that you are simply saying the DVMs told you 'this and that' yet you cant even show any type of papers you got from when you dropped the snake off. I dont know how you have a case number if you didnt even fill out any paperwork for the boa.

Well considering I said call me upon arrival, an hour after it arrives isnt calling upon arrival. You didnt even call me, I had to call you.

I said you had the 'hook up' of getting a necropsy done FOR $65. Normal vet checks are more than that for exotics. I was going to get a simple ultrasound done with one of my carpets and my vet was going to charge $100. So a necropsy would cost hundreds of dollars normally. I was referring to how much you got it done for, not who is allowed to get a necropsy done. If anyone can go in there and get it done for only $65 that is a damn shock especially considering that was an 8ft 40LB boa.

As far as I agreeing to refund you money. I told you many times I wanted to see some documentation and you insisted to 'get this done with and send the money to Chris'.

I GURANTEE LIVE ARRIVAL ONLY. He arrived alive and healthy just like you told me and just like you posted.

You said this on the BOI 7 1/2 HOURS AFTER HE WAS DELIVERED.
(plenty of time to view the snakes condition prior to posting this comment) and like I stated earlier, you didnt call me for 2 1/2 days so he was fine for those 2 1/2 days.

"Yaz is one of those people you get to deal with periodically that is just an all around great person. He cares about the animals he works with and it shows. I just purchased a large boa from him and he arrived today. Beautiful animal and Yaz exceeded expectations in the way he communicated thoughout the entire process all the way to how he packaged this large snake for safe transport. Genuinely great guy!! "

You were more pleased than you thought you'd be. So quite frankly I honestly dont have to pay you ANYTHING back so stop threatening me. He arrived safe, healthy, and you said he was fine. I would only be refunding you because I'm a nice guy. I am not held liable for this, you are. You had the snake for days and I didnt hear from you. He died, your problem. I AM NOT going to screw you over like that, but the way you act I can simply not send you anything no matter what the DVMs say. So dont say "You will get your documentation when I get it but I am not waiting for it."

By the way, a lot of people asked if you soaked him when you got him. You never answered. You said you did on the phone, didnt you?

 

[DaveyFig]

Yaz, he said he soaked it right here in this thread. I was wondering why you asked when your question came AFTER the answer to it.

I think now is the time for you to answer a question. If the necrospy shows that the snake died of pneumonia that would take much longer than 1/2 a week to die from , are you going to pay him back? I know it is your choice, so make it. Are you making him jump through hoops only to say you don't have to pay? If the report comes in and doesn't say anything about excessive heat, or trauma caused by David, will you refund his money?

 

[DaveyFig]

Also, why is it surprising that a vet visit for a live animal would cost more than a necropsy done by a diagnostic lab without the veterinarian (middleman) involved?

 

[CarolinaClassicDragons]

Now I just want to figure out how to get this much activity in my "For Sale" threads!

 

[DaveyFig]

Hey David, perhaps if you are found to be at fault you will get this kind of activity in those ads!

 

[chris allen]

It's really ashame things get handled in such a way.

If you the buyer wasn't offered the 300, or the 250 why not call him out on that in the beginning of this?

If the necropsy wasn't required in the beginning, but now is, I would hope that you are going to cover the cost of that as well, since you are requiring it to issue a refund, as long as the report indicates a condition such as the pneumonia.

I honestly think David, at this point, you should wait till you get the report and post the findings. If it does suggest such a condition, The full $390 should be refunded along with the necropsy fee. $65 for the necropsy is a steal also!

Yaz, I think you should have hopped on the $300 agreement from the beginning.

 

[chris allen]

It's really ashame things get handled in such a way.

If you the buyer wasn't offered the 300, or the 250 why not call him out on that in the beginning of this?

If the necropsy wasn't required in the beginning, but now is, I would hope that you are going to cover the cost of that as well, since you are requiring it to issue a refund, as long as the report indicates a condition such as the pneumonia.

I honestly think David, at this point, you should wait till you get the report and post the findings. If it does suggest such a condition, The full $390 should be refunded along with the necropsy fee. $65 for the necropsy is a steal also!

Yaz, I think you should have hopped on the $300 agreement from the beginning.

Should have said if the buyer.....not if you the buyer, sorry.

 

[CarolinaClassicDragons]

Here you go Yaz..... Not a computer wiz so I just scanned it. I could blow it up to see it better but couldnt figure out how to save the blown up version. By the way, the No Veterinarian means that they didnt have to send the results to my vet. here in Raleigh.

For whatever this is worth....

 

[Yaz23]

Dave you stated:
"Also, why is it surprising that a vet visit for a live animal would cost more than a necropsy done by a diagnostic lab without the veterinarian (middleman) involved?"

A necropsy is normally a lot more than $65. On top of that this is a 8ft, 40LB boa, so I dont know what your smoking and think $65 is what it would normally cost. He even told me he had knew the DVMs so he got a deal for doing it for $65. Now he is stating that anyone can go in there and get it done for $65????

As for giving a refund from the results. If it was pnuemonia that he died from and it was there prior to me shipping him, I will give David a refund. If it wasnt, then he doesnt get a refund. At this point I am willing to give him partial compensation for what happened because this is a bad situation for both of us; but if David would rather wait for the results and get more of his money back (or possibly nothing), I will either issue a refund (if the snake died from pnuemonia and had it before I shipped the snake) or nothing (meaning that the snake died from something on Davids part). So if you know you didnt do anything wrong, you'd just wait until the results come back. If you know you did something and possibly caused that snake to die, then you can take the compensation and 'be done with this' how you say to me.

 

[Chrisw]

Yaz let me ask this, if the report does come back and says it was sick before David received the snake, will David be getting a refund? If so will it be the $390 full refund which it should be, the $300 refund that was first accepted by you, the $250 refund that you accepted and didn't pay or the new refund amount that you stated of $223?

 

[SierraMarie]

I don't know either of the parties personally but from what I've seen of David he is a pretty stand up guy. I don't think he is trying to get a partial refund before the results come out because he feels he did anything wrong. I think he was trying to get a partial refund because 1) you told him you would do that and 2) he understands it is past your TOS.

I take your last post Yaz that you would rather wait for the results to come back and if it was pneumonia then you will refund the entire amount. That is also a stand up guy in my opinion. I would only like to add that if the decision is to wait for the results then the $65 for the necropsy should also be refunded if it is founded that the snake died due to pneumonia or some other long term condition that isn't possible to of killed a snake in half a week.

This is a bad situation all together, a snake died, and two reputable men in our trade are being questioned. I would also like to recommend no more mud slinging in regards to this situation until the results are found. It isn't doing either one any good.

David you have done a wonderful job at not contributing to the mud slinging, but I sense your patience is running thin. Don't give in to those tempations.

Yaz, until the results are in, quit trying to ruin David's good name. He isn't trying to ruin yours. He is just wanting results for a good deal gone bad.

 

[DaveyFig]

A necropsy is normally a lot more than $65. On top of that this is a 8ft, 40LB boa, so I dont know what your smoking and think $65 is what it would normally cost. He even told me he had knew the DVMs so he got a deal for doing it for $65. Now he is stating that anyone can go in there and get it done for $65????

I am not sure I understand what you are suggesting with the "I dont know what your smoking" part.Fancy way of saying I am stupid?A necropsy is normally more than $65 dollars because a veterinarian's office charges you a higher price for the service than they pay for it. Its a retail thing, a mark-up so to speak. By taking the animal to a diagnostic center, David skipped that. David paid for what the necropsy costs. If you take your dog to the vet to get shots it might cost you $50, and if it is the first time taking the animal to that vet, they may charge you another fee for an initial exam. If you buy the shots at a feed store it costs about $7.

 

[Jt80]

I was sent $390 via Paypal. From all the expenses (paypal fee, plastic container, shipping box, shipping cost) of this deal I was left with $227 for that boa. So basically out of the $390 I was sent, I was personally left with $227 for my boa. Why would I send a refund more than I even got for the boa?

What about the $390 David is out? Maybe you should've thought about all of the expenses such as the paypal fee etc. and charged more for the snake.

You're all "me me me" but what about David and his losses?


Also, Yaz didn't you have a boa for sale that appeared to have a RI? It may have been a rescue, I don't recall.
You posted that the snake seemed to have an RI, though you didn't take it to the vet, only turned up his heat in hopes of making him better.

Was that sick snake housed near the boa that this thread is about?


If I'm mistaken I do apologize.