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Info Just got this from SYR

Question for the folks that only ship Fedex and have waivers. If the Fedex waiver only allows business to business, is it any less ethical for you to ship to a residence than for someone to ship a snake via SYR when they say no snakes currently?

I'm not speaking about legalities of lacey act...etc... Talking about the rules of these companies. Is it better to knowingly ship to a residence even when you know its not a business than to ship a snake via SYR / UPS when their rules state you can't?
 
There are LEGAL home based business.... thus shipping to some residences...is the same as shipping to an industrial park. Its still a viable business.

I pay my business taxes... and have the documents for the business filed at the courthouse. Just because its in my house doesn't make me any less of a business.
 
Southern Wolf said:
There are LEGAL home based business.... thus shipping to some residences...is the same as shipping to an industrial park. Its still a viable business.

I pay my business taxes... and have the documents for the business filed at the courthouse. Just because its in my house doesn't make me any less of a business.
Click to expand...

Depending on who you talk to at Fed Ex this may or may not be an exception. My first account rep back in 2004 considered my home based business to be fine for shipping but the rep that replaced him did not.
 
2amcreations said:
Question for the folks that only ship Fedex and have waivers. If the Fedex waiver only allows business to business, is it any less ethical for you to ship to a residence than for someone to ship a snake via SYR when they say no snakes currently?
Click to expand...

Besides what Kevin stated about home businesses, the easiest fix to that restriction is to ship to the closest hub for pickup.
 
Southern Wolf said:
There are LEGAL home based business.... thus shipping to some residences...is the same as shipping to an industrial park. Its still a viable business.

I pay my business taxes... and have the documents for the business filed at the courthouse. Just because its in my house doesn't make me any less of a business.
Click to expand...

Wrong. This is also taken from FedEx's FAQ's:

What is the difference between Commercial and Residential delivery?
Commercial deliveries are those made to businesses by a FedEx Ground driver. A Residential delivery is one made to a home, including a home-based business.

Shipping to the nearest staffed facility is the closest one can come to conforming to the policy but I have heard of these being rejected by FedEx at times because the package is still addressed to a residence.
 
bsharrah said:
Sam - FedEx changed their live animal policies within the last year or two(not certain of exact date). This is the current policy regarding live animal shipments:

Live Animals and Ornamental Marine Life (Including Live Fish)
FedEx Express does not accept live-animal shipments as part of its regular-scheduled service and does not transport household pets such as dogs, cats, birds and hamsters. FedEx Express may accept certain shipments of live animals such as horses, livestock and zoo animals (to and from zoo locations only) on an exception basis if approved and coordinated by the FedEx Live Animal Desk (call 1.800.405.9052).

If approved by FedEx, we may accept non-venomous reptiles, amphibians, live/tropical fish and beneficial insects on an exception basis under the following conditions:

1. Shipments must be from a business to a business (from a breeder to a pet store, for example).
2. The shipper must have its packaging tested and pre-approved by FedEx Packaging Design and Development for the type of animal being shipped. Call 1.800.633.7019 for assistance. It is the responsibility of the shipper to adequately package shipments for all temperature extremes and handling conditions.

Contact your FedEx account executive for details and additional requirements.

Since this change, all waivers specify business to business; however, even those waivers which do not specify this are still held to the change in policy according to my account rep. FedEx can refuse the shipment if it is not addressed to a business. Some will tell you it is ok to ship to a residence if it is a home based business but this is not true. Some, like myself, will ship only to a FedEx staffed facility for pick up in an attempt to comply with this condition but even that isn't 100% on the up and up. The reality is, if the package is addressed to a residence, it is not in compliance with FedEx policy or the waiver under its current policy.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the heads up! :thumbsup:
 
2amcreations said:
Question for the folks that only ship Fedex and have waivers. If the Fedex waiver only allows business to business, is it any less ethical for you to ship to a residence than for someone to ship a snake via SYR when they say no snakes currently?
Click to expand...

IMO, if you are going to violate the carrier's policy, you shouldn't use another person's account to do it.
 
I talked to Robyn briefly through email, asking when they think snake shipping will be back through SYR. He said it won't be in the short term, but mid-term. He says months, not weeks. So it looks like they're trying to get things sorted out but it will be a while.
 
Now that the Fed Ex info has been posted..... is it still ethical to ship to a residence using Fed Ex?

What I'm trying to get at here folks...... what is the difference between breaking UPS rules and breaking Fed Ex rules?
 
Triple Moon.....I'm sure you are a fine, rule abiding customer of Fed Ex...and you would not knowingly ship to a residence using Fed Ex....but how many others are doing it on a daily basis? How many other are doing it that know they shouldn't? How many are on here bashing SYR and UPS while knowingly breaking Fed Ex rules?
 
Business to business only is the reason I hadn't gotten fedex certified yet, I knew I could ship from work but I'm just small fries and most of my customers are other hobbyiest like me, which means shipping to a home address. I wanted to get Delta certified (which they are allowing again after it had been stopped after 9/11) but need a business license. SYR was something I had been waiting for, legally shipping snakes! They were great (i thought), I both shipped and received snakes last year using that service. Now... shoot. I know I can ship via Northwest AirCargo but that limits the shipping destinations as well as the prohibitive costs involved.

I don't think anyone really wants to come on and admit shipping against the rules. ;)
 
2amcreations said:
Triple Moon.....I'm sure you are a fine, rule abiding customer of Fed Ex...and you would not knowingly ship to a residence using Fed Ex....but how many others are doing it on a daily basis? How many other are doing it that know they shouldn't? How many are on here bashing SYR and UPS while knowingly breaking Fed Ex rules?
Click to expand...

There's a big difference between UPS & FedEx. UPS flat out does not accept snakes in their policy and has confiscated shipments because of this. FedEx allows snake shipments, if you follow their certification process. Their is no protection for SYR shippers if something is questioned because you are not the account holder. FedEx, your reptile shipping status is on your account, a few computer clicks away...You can also send along a copy of your waiver with the shipment.

So all in all, I don't feel comparing the no snakes UPS policy to FedEx's business to business reptile policy an equal comparison. Apples & Oranges.

SYR is telling people to not properly label their packages per Federal Law (and failing to provide the information in what's supposed to be an all-inclusive Reptile Shipping video)...and UPS officials, when spoken to, say that SYR has no special contract for snake shipping...This is my biggest beef with them. :shrug01: If feel they should get their poop straight before putting animals at risk (ie make the waiver available to include with shipments or find some way to "mark" the account to prevent holds and confiscations).
 
The point I'm trying to make is simple....breaking rules is breaking rules....doesn't matter by degrees and waivers. Doesn't matter about account names or anything else.

Fed Ex does NOT allow shipping snakes to a residence.....same as UPS.

Rules is rules.....can't follow some and not others...right?
 
must have missed this part

confiscated?? I doubt UPS is confiscating and keeping shipments...haven't heard of that at all. I remember there was a dust up or 2 at the very beginning where shipments got help up, but were then delivered ( involving you in some way, right? ). I think there's been a couple sent back too.....but none have ever been confiscated indefinitely that I know of.

Is there a confiscated holding room somewhere at UPS headquarters filled with hundreds of snake boxes?
 
2amcreations said:
Fed Ex does NOT allow shipping snakes to a residence.....same as UPS.
Click to expand...

Correction, UPS does not allow shipping snakes...PERIOD.

I agree that rules are rules...But that doesn't make it ok if SYR wasn't 100% honest about the waiver and was advertising that it was ok to ship snakes via UPS. It doesn't make it ok that SYR encouraged individuals to violate the Lacey Act.

Despite Robin yapping on the other forum (boy, he should learn to quite it, he's not making himself look too good over there), you are permitted to ship hub to hub on the FedEx waiver. You can only educate people on the right and wrongs of shipping...Whether they follow the advice is an entirely different thing and no one individual can control it.

2amcreations said:
I doubt UPS is confiscating and keeping shipments...haven't heard of that at all. I remember there was a dust up or 2 at the very beginning where shipments got help up, but were then delivered ( involving you in some way, right? ). I think there's been a couple sent back too.....but none have ever been confiscated indefinitely that I know of.
Click to expand...

Actually, what they do is turn them over to the animal control closest to the hub they are confiscated from. Their they sit in their boxes 24-72 hours until they can be retrieved from animal control when it is convenient for them (animal control, not the shipper). So no, they weren't delivered...At least by UPS. My shipment I was lucky enough (perhaps not lucky as several of the animals died as a result of the whole debacle) that the shipment was confiscated within a 2 hour drive from the shipper. If they had been confiscated between our locations (Missouri -> Pennsylvania), care to think what would have happened to them? Perhaps you think that's ok...But I don't. First time in 8 years in the hobby I have ever experienced anything like that.
 
Just to point something out to you guys LOL!
SYR never was cetified to ship snakes through UPS..infact snakes are not even on there its ok to ship list!! nothing on there sight says you can ship snakes it just vaguely says reptiles
When I shipped my snakes out last week I called SYR reptiles they told me to tell them there were plants in the box!!! Hello!!
and to discretly drop off the box....so what is the difference now....you can still lie just like they told me to do LOL!!

UPS says yes they have a contrat with SYR (this was way before the email btw) but its for..they gave a list of reptiles, and added at the end but does not included venomous or non-venomous snakes. We do not ship snakes under any curcimstance!!

So this is SYR reptiles fault!! Nobody elses!!

If you wanna ship through SYR now it would be no different then it was 6 months ago, just dont tell UPS whats in the box..like one of there own representives told me!!
 
I just want to bash my head into a wall reading your post, Jendee...

What SYR told you to do is ILLEGAL...It is a FEDERAL VIOLATION...
 
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