Info Just got this from SYR

[R. Eventide]

Wow, this thread exploded.

I guess I really don't understand all the arguing and finger-pointing when we really don't have enough information to figure out just what, exactly, is going on. Besides, it's only been a few days; perhaps we should give SYR some time. I mean, they still have all their other packages to deal with as well as answering e-mails, calls, and trying to get something worked out with UPS. The understatement of the year would be to say they're kinda busy.

That being said, I do not read other fora, for the most part, so if they are keeping people updated and/or giving out more information on sites other than this one, I'd be a bit perplexed. Then again, they can't really go around and give people updates on every, single reptile site. Yeah, I'd call Fauna one of the bigger reptile sites, but they are most certainly not obligated to keep every forum up-to-date. They are only obligated to inform their current customers, which I'm sure they will update when they have something to say (in the same way they alerted all their current customers about the hopefully-temporary halt in snake shipping).

Unless I completely missed a post somewhere (entirely possible), we do not yet know why they had to stop snake shipments. We also do not know what their original contract/waiver said. As such, I see no reason to put the blame on SYR or anyone else at this time.

 

[deborahbroadus]

Well, it certainly rubbed me the wrong way to see Robyn's apparent opinion of this site expressed like he did.

Since I'm sure Robyn is reading this thread, I think I should make a policy statement about helping him in the future such as I did when he called me about this "waiver" that people are concerned about again. In short, Robyn, don't come to me for help again. For anything. Apparently it is beneath you to come here to answer people's questions about this issue, so this is your own bed to lie in. Quite frankly, I now feel USED when you came to me to help you get your SYR business off the ground and this very same question about the legitimacy of your "waiver" was brought up here. In my opinion, you could have read me ANYTHING written by ANYONE over the phone, as I have no tangible proof whatsoever concerning WHO wrote that text you read to me then. I do regret that I took you and your claims at face value earlier.

Personally, I believe the people here either currently or potentially using the services you offer have a legitimate reason to want to know the TRUTH. If I were in the shoes of those people relying on your services for their own business needs, I certainly would not be happy with the apparent question dodging now taking place from you. Quite frankly, if UPS can pull the rug out from under you (and therefor your customers) without warning, as they have now apparently done, then unless you have an iron-clad CONTRACT from them that they cannot revoke at whim without notice, then you are doing your customers a disservice by putting their animals and business transactions in jeopardy by being transported by UPS through your company without any guarantee of VERIFIABLY authorized passage.

Aye, there's the rub and the hub of it all. If SYR was willing to READ you the waiver, why not FAX it to you or send a copy some way so you can visually verify the legitimacy of the waiver?? To me, it makes no kind of sense whatsoever to read the waiver to someone yet stress that they can't SHOW it.

IMO (yes, again) once the waiver is read to someone, the "secrecy" is out the window, *if there is an actual waiver that allows them to use their account to service the mulitudes.* Otherwise, without a waiver that allowed them to ship SNAKES for the community, they were just using their personal account to make money off everyone. The earlier tags posted on Google, and the wording of their advertisements..and suggestions to avoid "self explosure" lead me to believe that they did not have a waiver. I am perfectly capable of reading and understanding what I read without having to make excuses for anyone and put words in their mouth that were not said...

They have not publicy stated ANYWHERE that I have found that they have a waiver that allows them to ship snakes for the reptile community. They have, however; dodged, inferred, mislead (notice the Google tags have changed??) and then insulted those that want questions answered, because in my opinion, insulting Southern Wolf was the same as insulting a lot of us...we are all asking the same questions.

 

[Khaman]

They did not post it specifically but they have changed the text on the site now.

It says nothing about snakes now. It says you can ship live non-venomous reptiles according to UPS rules and restrictions.

I don't believe the FAQ ever said anything about shipping snakes it was only the Meta tags that listed snakes specifically.

They have, however; dodged, inferred, mislead (notice the Google tags have changed??)

The Meta tags still state they ship snakes. I tried on three computers to make sure there was not a cache issue.

 

[deborahbroadus]

I don't believe the FAQ ever said anything about shipping snakes it was only the Meta tags that listed snakes specifically.



The Meta tags still state they ship snakes. I tried on three computers to make sure there was not a cache issue.

Then are they lying, are they using their own personal account to bypass UPS policy to make money? I ask, because they also specifically informed their customers to FOLLOW UPS REGULATIONS....which specifically prohibit the shipment of snakes.

 

[Khaman]

Then are they lying, are they using their own personal account to bypass UPS policy to make money? I ask, because they also specifically informed their customers to FOLLOW UPS REGULATIONS....which specifically prohibit the shipment of snakes.

That seems to the core question in this entire thread. The second question is if you have put a freeze on shipping snakes three days ago why not put that info on your website? They have sent out emails, posted on forums, taken phone calls, answered emails, went on a internet radio program but still have not updated their web site to reflect the change. A change that could prevent some less tech savvy CUSTOMER from sending an animal and possibly losing it hundreds of miles from them or its intended destination. Now notice I said customer there many of us on here that have never used SYR for our own various reasons and no one can fault us we all have our opinions. Now if someone uses SYR website to ship a snake (which would make them a customer of SYR) without a clear message on the website stating they have halted shipping snakes and still having the description on their website that they do "securely and affordably" ship snakes SYR will be liable for that shipment if it gets stopped because they did not adequately protect that customer. The longer that is not included on the site the more it makes me think they are attempting to protect their revenue stream with as little liability to themselves. This is a weekend though so no shipping is happening so let’s see if there is anything there start of business Monday morning.

 

[WebSlave]

I believe this thread has reached the point where this is now a BOI related issue. As such, I am moving it there.

 

[deborahbroadus]

I believe this thread has reached the point where this is now a BOI related issue. As such, I am moving it there.

 

[brd7666]

Well, I for one will never do any business with him in any way. I will pay double the price before I buy from him. After Rich did him a huge favor and helped him get SYR going, then he makes negative remarks about this web site. I think it shows what kind of a man he is, and I don't think I will finish that, I have enough infraction points as it is. I think his comments are a slap in the face to Rich, and the community here. I think he is one of those, who forgets where he came from. Now he is Mr. Bigshot, and he no longer needs those who helped him get to where he is. Disgusting really.

I have lost all respect for Robyn at this point, and he wasn't high on my list for a long time. He took it upon himself to open an account for me through SYR. When he did that, I lost respect for him. I see that as an act of desperation, and being pushy. Don't push your product on me. If I want an account, I will open one myself. I view it the same way as someone who responds to one of my classified ads, and then all of the sudden, I'm on their mailing list and they send me their monthlt inventory list, it's LOW.

As for an individual shipping through UPS or Fedex without a waiver. Well, this actually happens every day with both of them. If you choose to do it, make sure you don't tell them what's in the box, and do not write anything on the outside of the box.

Personally, I don't believe their waiver ever included others to ship snakes on their account. There is an old saying, "cash talks", and I believe that to be the case. But, someone upstairs got tired of fixing the situations for him, and said enough is enough. So, now he claims they can no longer have others shipping snakes through their account. Can UPS really be that backwards to where they don't have some kind of a notation system that says this is what this account can or can't do? I didn't fall off of the boat yesterday.

At this time I have a favor to ask all of my fellow herpers. Please spread the word about all of the negativity, lack of professionalism, disrespect, and selfishness shown by SYR. Word travels fast in this business if we want it to. Please encourage everyone you know to open their own account and stop relying on others. Most sellers factor in shipping charges in the sale, so you really aren't losing anything. But, it stops someone from getting rich off of your business who in my opinon is ungratefull.

More of my 2 cents.

 

[deborahbroadus]

I agree Brian, I also want to add that his unprofessionalism in responding to his customers and postential customers, and his willingness to thumb his nose at us tells me a lot.

If he's lying in this area..can you really trust someone that will tell such a MAJOR lie? I don't go for the "we all benefited" excuse.

Reading the posts, I can see that some of us actually believed him and still want to believe in him, because some of us still think a person's "word" should be enough, and some of us are just naive, but regardless, some of us believed him, and without any thing to justify that faith, we just look like fools.....again, especially when Rob isn't willing to give us anything to go on...other than his "word," which in my opinion at this point is suspect to say the least.

Will he post something Monday? I don't know, and actually, no longer care. If he posts something Monday, in my opinion, he could have posted earlier..he was posting on other forums, so.....in actually, he's gained enough time now to manufacture a document.. imo, his behaivor has raised red flags that won't change to green any time soon for me.

I have never cared how "big" or "little" someone is. Personal ethics means a lot to some of us.

 

[cat snake]

WOW!
I am sorry for all the sellers who have been put in such a bad spot. I am also sorry for all the poor folks expecting to receive these animals. I am supposed to be getting a spotted python this week and now I don't know how long she will be delayed. I am most sorry for all the animals which may get caught up in this mess and hope that there is minimal loss of life if there are delays for inspections and such. I can email the person sending me my snake, but how many customers know about this? There will be a lot of unhappy customers, potentially lost business and innocent animals caught in the middle. What a shame!

 

[Melinda]

Melinda, can't send you the link, the forum links are filtered for that particular forum.

Ok, thanks

 

[Strike_Force_Reptiles]

I think this is all crazy as hell. either you can or you cant, you will or you wont, you do or you dont there is no in between. i guess all we are really left with is Delta as far as shipping over the whole country. i know if we could have more reptile only delievery system we would be a lot better off. i delievered up and down the east coast for awhile and will start back now that my daughter is born. i pick up packages from others and deliever them as long as its to and from the east coast from GA to PA, OH to TN. dont see why someone hasnt come up with that already. i do it and it works good for me. also running a reptile delievery service you dont need boxes. i just use cages and in a temp controled ride. SYR and UPS need to get this straight. i mean come on people its not that hard to come up with something that works for everyone

 

[Kristi23]

I am lucky that I don't breed snakes yet, but I thought about it in the future. Now I'm not sure. I only use UPS. I've tried multiple times to get Fed-Ex certified, but they refuse to accept that my address is a real address even though they deliver here. I can't even get them to give me an account and I've talked to multiple people. I only ship geckos right now, so this isn't a huge issue, but I see it affecting a lot of breeders. What happens now will determine if I breed snakes in the future.

 

[Gecko_Den]

i pick up packages from others and deliever them as long as its to and from the east coast from GA to PA, OH to TN. dont see why someone hasnt come up with that already. i do it and it works good for me. also running a reptile delievery service you dont need boxes. i just use cages and in a temp controled ride.

How do you keep track of the different laws from state to state regarding interstate transportation of reptiles? With different deliveries from different people to different states do you take responsibility for the paperwork necessary to conform to the Lacey act? All of that paperwork in addition to rising fuel costs would likely require a full load for each delivery in order to make it profitable? Is this something you do as a business, or are you traveling for another job at the same time and just doing this on the side?

 

[hhmoore]

How do you keep track of the different laws from state to state regarding interstate transportation of reptiles? With different deliveries from different people to different states do you take responsibility for the paperwork necessary to conform to the Lacey act? All of that paperwork in addition to rising fuel costs would likely require a full load for each delivery in order to make it profitable? Is this something you do as a business, or are you traveling for another job at the same time and just doing this on the side?

In the interest of keeping this on the topic of SYR (since it is now a BOI thread), this side discussion will need to take place either privately, or in the Shipping forum.

 

[Diego Velarde]

At this time I have a favor to ask all of my fellow herpers. Please spread the word about all of the negativity, lack of professionalism, disrespect, and selfishness shown by SYR. Word travels fast in this business if we want it to. Please encourage everyone you know to open their own account and stop relying on others. Most sellers factor in shipping charges in the sale, so you really aren't losing anything. But, it stops someone from getting rich off of your business who in my opinon is ungratefull.

More of my 2 cents.

That is just Ridiculous! You want to gather every one and start and attach on SYR because You believe they never had a waiver? NOTHING has been PROVEN so far. No one, and I repeat no one has proof that the waiver never existed.
This is now a BOI thread and we cant come to a conclusion without any proof.
AS far as I'm concerned, SYR saved me and a whole lot of people lots of money and IMO it was something very good for our hobby.

Why all the secrecy when using their service? Why do we have to drop them of at Staples or Office Max? Why do we have to have the "harmless live reptiles label" inside the box? To make it a Bullet Proof Service, or I should say an Idiot Proof service, since most shipping employees are uneducated when it comes to reptiles.
Tell me when was the last time you shipped a snake and drop it off saying "there's a snake in the box" and nothing went wrong with it? I said it before and I'll repeat myself again, people Do Not like snakes! and they will refuse, stop progress, or even shake and open the package once they are aware of its content whether using FedEx or UPS.
But why do we still need to bend the rules/regulations? The same reason why FedEx certified people still ship to residential addresses when they're obviously Not allowed to... but they do it to make a living, to sell their animals they worked so hard on producing. And I applaud those that follow the rules 100% but there's nothing wrong on making it easy on ourselves by trying to make our package "idiot proof"

 

[TripleMoonsExotic]

That is just Ridiculous! You want to gather every one and start and attach on SYR because You believe they never had a waiver? NOTHING has been PROVEN so far. No one, and I repeat no one has proof that the waiver never existed.

It goes both ways. No one ever proved the waiver existed in the first place.

Why all the secrecy when using their service? Why do we have to drop them of at Staples or Office Max? Why do we have to have the "harmless live reptiles label" inside the box? To make it a Bullet Proof Service, or I should say an Idiot Proof service, since most shipping employees are uneducated when it comes to reptiles.
Tell me when was the last time you shipped a snake and drop it off saying "there's a snake in the box" and nothing went wrong with it? I said it before and I'll repeat myself again, people Do Not like snakes! and they will refuse, stop progress, or even shake and open the package once they are aware of its content whether using FedEx or UPS."

It's ILLEGAL to do that. It is a FEDERAL VIOLATION to not label your packages appropriately. That is NOT ok. This is why SYR has been under scrutiny...They were told that their labeling method in their videos is wrong, and they ignored it.

 

[deborahbroadus]

That is just Ridiculous! You want to gather every one and start and attach on SYR because You believe they never had a waiver? NOTHING has been PROVEN so far. No one, and I repeat no one has proof that the waiver never existed.
This is now a BOI thread and we cant come to a conclusion without any proof.
AS far as I'm concerned, SYR saved me and a whole lot of people lots of money and IMO it was something very good for our hobby.

Why all the secrecy when using their service? Why do we have to drop them of at Staples or Office Max? Why do we have to have the "harmless live reptiles label" inside the box? To make it a Bullet Proof Service, or I should say an Idiot Proof service, since most shipping employees are uneducated when it comes to reptiles.
Tell me when was the last time you shipped a snake and drop it off saying "there's a snake in the box" and nothing went wrong with it? I said it before and I'll repeat myself again, people Do Not like snakes! and they will refuse, stop progress, or even shake and open the package once they are aware of its content whether using FedEx or UPS.
But why do we still need to bend the rules/regulations? The same reason why FedEx certified people still ship to residential addresses when they're obviously Not allowed to... but they do it to make a living, to sell their animals they worked so hard on producing. And I applaud those that follow the rules 100% but there's nothing wrong on making it easy on ourselves by trying to make our package "idiot proof"

Diego,

This isn't about SYR "saving" anyone. It's about possibly LYING to profit off people and ENDANGERING animals.

To me, and probably a lot of other people..if he can READ the waiver to one person, he can also put this matter to rest by FAXING or attaching it to an email and letting that person READ it.

It really IS that simple.

I don't mind people making a profit, I do mind them conning me into using their services by sly tactics that can cause ME trouble . I also mind SYR encouraging a lot of people to break UPS's regulations by saying they ship snakes while at the same time stating that the people using their services should FOLLOW UPS's policy (NO SNAKES), because we are already under fire from different sources to have our snakes taken from us.

 

[hhmoore]

Why all the secrecy when using their service? Why do we have to drop them of at Staples or Office Max? Why do we have to have the "harmless live reptiles label" inside the box? To make it a Bullet Proof Service, or I should say an Idiot Proof service, since most shipping employees are uneducated when it comes to reptiles.
Tell me when was the last time you shipped a snake and drop it off saying "there's a snake in the box" and nothing went wrong with it? I said it before and I'll repeat myself again, people Do Not like snakes! and they will refuse, stop progress, or even shake and open the package once they are aware of its content whether using FedEx or UPS.

I've got to disagree with you on this part...
I, like many others, have long been of the understanding that the guidelines required clear labeling. I'm not disputing Robyn's statement that it doesn't have to be so, because (as he said) there can be different interpretations of the wording. That acknowledged, I simply don't agree with his version. I have always labeled the OUTSIDE of my boxes with Live Harmless Reptiles...and I discretely print the contents (common name, scientific name, and quantity of each species) right on the outside of the box.* I currently also use PERISHABLE and THIS SIDE UP stickers. I've always brought my shipments to either the Delta Cargo office, or (since I got my waiver) directly to the local FedEx hub. I have never had a single problem when doing so, had a package not delivered because of the contents, or received word of mistreatment/damage from my customers.
Granted, I don't announce, "There's a snake in the box". On that subject, I agree with Robyn - don't call undue attention to what you're doing. (However, in accordance with my interpretation of the guidelines, that statement does not extend to actually hiding the nature of the contents).


*I will admit that, on one occasion that I know of, I did neglect to list the contents of a box. I was doing a little too much multitasking, and straight up forgot until about 10 minutes after I dropped off the package. By that time, I was halfway to work, and it wasn't feasible to turn around just to make that notation.

 

[Diego Velarde]

Stephanie, I believe there's one person in another forum that claims to have seen it in person. I'll get you a link.

About labeling your box, you can do that in the "item description" section when you're setting up your shipping label before you print it out. You dont have to write it on a 14 Font Size and in bright red but the item description will be there on the shipping label thus it wont be illegal.

Deborah, I dont know how much profit the make by doing this but I do know they have saved people lots of money.
And bout bending the laws I already explained my thought in the above post.
SYR used to be able to ship snakes but not anymore, and yes their website hasn't changed but it has only been a few days since UPS said no more snakes. Give them some time. It is really easy to jump to conclusions but we (or at least I) do need more evidence before I make up my mind.