Matt2979
My dawg has the bluuues.
I looked up Tammy Doss and sent her a PM so that she does know about this thread. Hopefully she'll come and share her side of what transpired.
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Bad Guy Ed and Tammy Doss (aka Magick and Logician)
- Thread starter C.F.C
- Start date
Maybe I missread but what I understood was that he contacted them about buying the pastel as a ruse to get back in touch with them since he had no other contact info?
Matt2979
My dawg has the bluuues.
Well, I PM'd Tammy about this thread and I saw her in here, not too long ago. Had wanted to hear her side of the story before making any offers, but she's come and gone without saying anything.
I've already sold all of my normals that I've hatched thus far this year; however, I have 2 more clutches that I will cut in less than 2 weeks. I have no doubt that I will be LUCKY enough to have AT LEAST ONE normal male from these. If you want to pay shipping, I will ship your son the prettiest normal male I have (after it eats a couple of times, or if you have the capability to get it feeding then we can discuss that). I hate to see kids lose out, no matter which adult was most at blame.
If shipping is too much for a normal male, I understand. Just thought I'd offer to replace your son's BP.
I've already sold all of my normals that I've hatched thus far this year; however, I have 2 more clutches that I will cut in less than 2 weeks. I have no doubt that I will be LUCKY enough to have AT LEAST ONE normal male from these. If you want to pay shipping, I will ship your son the prettiest normal male I have (after it eats a couple of times, or if you have the capability to get it feeding then we can discuss that). I hate to see kids lose out, no matter which adult was most at blame.
If shipping is too much for a normal male, I understand. Just thought I'd offer to replace your son's BP.
Thanks for the offer Matt that is very nice of you. We have grown our collection and he has a few morphs of his own now. We have eggs in the incubator, and just had a littler of boas this morning, So he has plenty to help take care of. I just used this as a way to get an answer and at least share what we learned with others. This was years back, and I handle everything differently from the way we did when we first started.
Let me add this had they just owned up I could have been understanding but they didn't. And as you see they have yet to respond to this BOI. Thanks for everyone's responses but this is a dead horse. Hopefully it will help someone that reads this and is getting into the hobby and use it as what not to do.
Let me add this had they just owned up I could have been understanding but they didn't. And as you see they have yet to respond to this BOI. Thanks for everyone's responses but this is a dead horse. Hopefully it will help someone that reads this and is getting into the hobby and use it as what not to do.
StrictlyExotics
New member
What a class act! We could only strive to be as generous as Matt. Now, I know its only a normal male, but its truly the thought that matters
Matt2979
My dawg has the bluuues.
Aw come on. Thanks for kind words, but it really was just a normal male that isn't worth much at all to me (I wholesale as many as I can to pet stores), but I thought a child might like to have a snake back.
And Scott, congrats on the litter of boas!!
And for anyone new to this hobby, it's been pointed out a few times in this thread that if you're going to deal with anyone online, get as much info as you can and utilize the BOI to check up on people. We have some awesome members in this community that will help anyone with anything they can....but beware, there's always some creep lurking in the shadows that will take advantage of any situation he/she/it can!
And Scott, congrats on the litter of boas!!
And for anyone new to this hobby, it's been pointed out a few times in this thread that if you're going to deal with anyone online, get as much info as you can and utilize the BOI to check up on people. We have some awesome members in this community that will help anyone with anything they can....but beware, there's always some creep lurking in the shadows that will take advantage of any situation he/she/it can!
morph evolution
Well-known member
yeah matthew,you get a thumbs up from me for the offer to scott,your a good dude!!
HyderHouseHerps
New member
I think after the second refusal to meet, I'd have just called the cops, since they are local. No screwin' around, 4 years is WAY too long for a breeding loan/wait!
Magick
New member
First of all, I’d like to thank Matt2979 for making me aware of this thread. I considered just letting this thread run its course. I just sold my last snake and have no need to prove anything. But as a longtime member of Fauna, and reader of the BOI, I always wondered about the accused that never defended themselves. I’ve been following the thread all day, but had to wait until my son was asleep in order to respond without distraction. So here is “my side” of the events.
Several years ago I was lent a normal male Ball Python on a breeding loan, from a “friend of a friend.” I housed and feed him on a weekly basis as I did with all of my snakes. The snake in question never bred any of my female snakes. I made several attempts to contact Scott to arrange a meeting to return the snake, with no response.
My husband had an arrangement with the person who introduced me to Scott, whom we knew only as Blue, to purchase feeders. Around the time I was attempting to return the loaner male, my husband was trying to reach Blue to get more feeders. Neither of us was successful.
I continued to house and feed the loaner male for well over a year, with no response or contact from Scott or Blue. I am not hard to find; I still use the same e-mail address, obviously frequent FaunaClassifieds, and attend the local exotic shows twice a year. Eventually I traded the male to a local pet shop to alleviate the extra expense of feeding a normal male, who I considered to have been abandoned.
A little over two years ago I sold all but one of my snakes. I kept my favorite female pastel as a pet. A few weeks ago I decided to sell the female pastel and posted on FaunaClassifieds (Link to Ad). I had some inquiries, then this pm:
pastel
________________________________________
I want this girl. I can come pick her up tonight. Call me asap. Thanks
William
910 514 7622
I called and we arranged to meet in a store parking lot. My husband, 18 month old son, and I met “William” (aka Scott) at 4pm on Tuesday May 25th. He had multiple people with him. When we pulled up next to him and I got out, a black truck pulled up and parked in front of our vehicles, and Blue got out. By this time Scott had the pastel in his hands and was demanding the return of his snake or for me to “make it right” or else he was going to take the pastel female.
I was surprised, not because he had resurfaced (I didn’t even recognize him), but because of the fact that he was threatening to steal my female pastel. I offered to drop $50 off of her price before I realized that he had never intended to buy the pastel. When Scott informed us that he wanted $100 or he would take the pastel, my husband wrote down his license plate numbers. Scott claimed he didn’t care if we called the cops, but Blue advised him to return the snake to me. As I bagged the snake up, I again offered $50 to try to make things right, which Scott refused. That is “my side” of the story.
Scott is not the only one who “learned a good lesson.” I will never agree to meet someone in a random place again, and definitely NEVER with my baby in the truck with me. Rather than identifying himself honestly and working something out, Scott decided it was better to trick me into meeting. He had multiple people, and two vehicles, with him when we met. He made sure he had physical possession of the snake before he told me who he was. His goal, in my opinion, was intimidation and quite possibly theft. Thank God my husband had the day off of work and went with us.
Several years ago I was lent a normal male Ball Python on a breeding loan, from a “friend of a friend.” I housed and feed him on a weekly basis as I did with all of my snakes. The snake in question never bred any of my female snakes. I made several attempts to contact Scott to arrange a meeting to return the snake, with no response.
My husband had an arrangement with the person who introduced me to Scott, whom we knew only as Blue, to purchase feeders. Around the time I was attempting to return the loaner male, my husband was trying to reach Blue to get more feeders. Neither of us was successful.
I continued to house and feed the loaner male for well over a year, with no response or contact from Scott or Blue. I am not hard to find; I still use the same e-mail address, obviously frequent FaunaClassifieds, and attend the local exotic shows twice a year. Eventually I traded the male to a local pet shop to alleviate the extra expense of feeding a normal male, who I considered to have been abandoned.
A little over two years ago I sold all but one of my snakes. I kept my favorite female pastel as a pet. A few weeks ago I decided to sell the female pastel and posted on FaunaClassifieds (Link to Ad). I had some inquiries, then this pm:
pastel
________________________________________
I want this girl. I can come pick her up tonight. Call me asap. Thanks
William
910 514 7622
I called and we arranged to meet in a store parking lot. My husband, 18 month old son, and I met “William” (aka Scott) at 4pm on Tuesday May 25th. He had multiple people with him. When we pulled up next to him and I got out, a black truck pulled up and parked in front of our vehicles, and Blue got out. By this time Scott had the pastel in his hands and was demanding the return of his snake or for me to “make it right” or else he was going to take the pastel female.
I was surprised, not because he had resurfaced (I didn’t even recognize him), but because of the fact that he was threatening to steal my female pastel. I offered to drop $50 off of her price before I realized that he had never intended to buy the pastel. When Scott informed us that he wanted $100 or he would take the pastel, my husband wrote down his license plate numbers. Scott claimed he didn’t care if we called the cops, but Blue advised him to return the snake to me. As I bagged the snake up, I again offered $50 to try to make things right, which Scott refused. That is “my side” of the story.
Scott is not the only one who “learned a good lesson.” I will never agree to meet someone in a random place again, and definitely NEVER with my baby in the truck with me. Rather than identifying himself honestly and working something out, Scott decided it was better to trick me into meeting. He had multiple people, and two vehicles, with him when we met. He made sure he had physical possession of the snake before he told me who he was. His goal, in my opinion, was intimidation and quite possibly theft. Thank God my husband had the day off of work and went with us.
kmurphy
New member
For what it's worth Tammy, your explanation of events sounds much more credible to me than Scott's.
I do have a problem with the fact that you guys can meet up so quickly but couldn't get together 4 years ago, but that is greatly overshadowed by Scott and his pal's intimidation, and strong-arm, tactics.
Seems like your son's snake wasn't too important to you right from the beginning. You give it to a friend, who gives it to their acquaintance. Now all of a sudden it's a big deal. Doesn't fly with me.
I do have a problem with the fact that you guys can meet up so quickly but couldn't get together 4 years ago, but that is greatly overshadowed by Scott and his pal's intimidation, and strong-arm, tactics.
Seems like your son's snake wasn't too important to you right from the beginning. You give it to a friend, who gives it to their acquaintance. Now all of a sudden it's a big deal. Doesn't fly with me.
deborahbroadus
HARD CANDY
This is why I waited to see if the other side of the story came out. Thank you Tammy for coming to respond. I had reservations because Lucille had some great points in her response and the OP's story was not logical in terms of time, value of the snake, and trying to "steal" a Pastel.
His story smelled of CYA....running here to "blab" first before Tammy could tell us about his own actions.
I say that the 100.00 should be owed to TAMMY for feeding and housing his Normal for so long.
P.S. the offer for a free BP and the resulting back slappings would have been better confined to pms.
Ok first of all My family was with me so I don't think I'd be "strong arming" in front of a teenager. I also had Robbie meet after he was off work only because he introduced Tammy and myself. Second I never received any calls or any attempt to return the animal. I always was the one calling Tammy.After we had the set day she never answered another call after that day. Third who knows if she even had the animal that long because I sure don't know. They couldn't even tell me where the animal was. So if they had it that long they would have known. It is what it is here. Everyone learned here. But not one time was anyone threatened as how it's being made sound and I said everything I did in my first post. Everyone can have there own opinion. But if it happen to you I bet you'd done what you had to do to at least get a freaking answer. As for William being used I used it because it is my first name. How ever if you look to the left you see my name so it's not like it was hidden, not my fault they forgot who I was, as they even admit here in this thread. LESSON LEARNED!
deborahbroadus
HARD CANDY
Stories do not seem to jibe. William, you were requested to post the emails showing that you had attempted to contact her over a period of time to get your son's bp back, no emails were post except one from your friend that didn't seem to be requesting the BP back and apparently Tammy did respond? Am I missing something? Clarify please.
What I saw was: You loaned out a BP (you claim was your son's) You tried to strong arm (you said you were taking it) them of a Pastel and they did the right thing by taking down your license plate. This all happened in front of the teenager.
morph evolution
Well-known member
looks like deborah hit it on head.william,just take this as lesson learned.next time you decide to do a breeder loan to anyone do you homework first.contracts,pics,and updates.an adult norm is bp not something to get your feathers all ruffled up.swallow your pride and go to the local petshop and by your son another bp.for what you probably spent in gas you can buy another normal.
Sushi Dragons
New member
When dealing with issues of this nature, you really need to solidify things in writing. A paper trail (or even email trail) will get you much further than "he said, she said" phone calls.
Tammy articulated a very reasonable scenario which seems to be much more likely than the picture of a thief that Scott has tried to paint. I think the fact that he tricked Tammy into meeting him before first trying to communicate peaceably is a pretty big red flag. And by bringing along a posse to further his threat just seems wrong.
There are no winners or losers here no matter what the outcome. If Tammy's side of things is the truth, then too bad for Scott. If Scott's side of things is the truth, then he is owed a Normal male, BP. Not money, not a female pastel, etc. Just a Normal male BP.
_________
Rachel Linas
Tammy articulated a very reasonable scenario which seems to be much more likely than the picture of a thief that Scott has tried to paint. I think the fact that he tricked Tammy into meeting him before first trying to communicate peaceably is a pretty big red flag. And by bringing along a posse to further his threat just seems wrong.
There are no winners or losers here no matter what the outcome. If Tammy's side of things is the truth, then too bad for Scott. If Scott's side of things is the truth, then he is owed a Normal male, BP. Not money, not a female pastel, etc. Just a Normal male BP.
_________
Rachel Linas
morph evolution
Well-known member
deborahbroadus
HARD CANDY
Dachande
New member
Tammy, if you are continuing to read this I want to say a few words in regards to the statements you made. Namely the ones that well, kinda disturb me. And I'm not saying in the "oh you lie" sense. I mean, the "huh?" sense.
I actually parked in front of Scott. Did not block you in at all. You could have seen me and hauled off. If anyone was blocked in it was Scott. I was there as a witness and I wanted to know why. First you said you gave it back, (obviously not) then it's at a pet store. The inconsistency in your side that day made things seem more like you were trying to come up with something to tell us.
He never said a word about taking it forcefully from you. There was no strong arm thievery afoot. I'm not a big guy so intimidation is not my strong point. We caught you off guard and called you out. That's as far as it goes.
If the intent was to just take it then I never would have been there or his son. No threats either except of calling the police. Not even harsh language or vulgarity. Still none. It was an option as you don't have the original snake, it's the only snake you have, and monetary value was at a stand still on negotiation.
Seriously, the last one bothers me the most because it's not like we surrounded you while you cradled your baby in your arms fearfully. I'm a father of two myself and I know it may be out of left field coming from me given the circumstance, but I am happy for you both and wish the best for you in regards to being a new parent. I honestly do from one parent to another, no ill will.
There was mention of the show. I have been at every one for the last 10 or so years. The only ones I have missed were the May 06 due to my daughters birth and the last show, second day. There all day Saturday but not on Sunday. I used to see you both from time to time. I didn't see either of you after the python deal, which was kind of shady to me. I'm not hard to find either. My phone number hasn't changed since I first got a cell phone, email is the same and I stand out in a crowd. I have been there behind tables since the fall 08 show. That's all I can say for shows.
As far as where I fit in all this, I saw, heard and read what I have needed to. I wanted to see this through face to face because there's no ducking, dodging or any run around. These confrontations tend to be more honest and now I know what happened to the snake. I felt taken advantage of because I reached out to someone whose knowledge on certain species is unquestionably well with the feeders, animals and a loaner and I got burned. Well, I got my friend burned.
Things added up to me as I didn't see them at shows, hadn't heard from them, Scott hadn't, and now I recall whenever I had dealt with them it was always meeting somewhere. I had hoped to see the collection I had heard about and had no qualms with inviting them to see what I have. Granted if I knew where they lived it may have been different, maybe not. l wasn't sure if they had moved or what. Just figured they got us. What would you do if someone you strongly felt scammed you resurfaced?
I know we are a couple of nobodies around here. There are people I associate with in the reptile community locally and on-line that know me well enough to vouch that I don't do devious, but generous. Not that you would believe them or me now. I'm not going to lie about what transpired, then and now. I'd tell you that Ed is damn good with his monitors just as fast as I'll tell you they did us dirty. Because I call it like I see it.
Hell, I'm probably wasting my time, I'll have a red flaggy thing or be straight banned for coming to my friend's aid, but damn the torpedoes I'd do it again if I had to. I read and noticed we probably didn't stand a chance to begin with. Right or wrong. But I proved my hypothesis and buried some bones for good.
Now I'm in a one sided fist fight. Neat!! It's a new experience. Life's full of 'em.
Not one sided you say? I dunno friend. I'll post something and you draw your own conclusion on if there was a conflict of interests or we have had a fair trial. Scroll down to the bottom of the page and click on the first one if it's still there. Should read:
Who is Logician, and why is he editing my adds?
Tammy, Ed. If you've read this far; just want to say I'm done. I've said all I have to say. Sure I might see you at a show or something; I'm not gonna make no scene or wish any ill will on you and your family. If I were to see you on the side of the road with a fire under the hood, I'd still stop and give you the extinguisher in my truck. Still feel like I was done dirty, but that doesn't mean I hope something bad happens to you. I may live with ectotherms, but it doesn't mean I'm a cold blooded monster. Good luck with the new family.
Robb "Blue" Wynne
Alright. No responses anymore. I'm a sittin' duck. Fire away!
I actually parked in front of Scott. Did not block you in at all. You could have seen me and hauled off. If anyone was blocked in it was Scott. I was there as a witness and I wanted to know why. First you said you gave it back, (obviously not) then it's at a pet store. The inconsistency in your side that day made things seem more like you were trying to come up with something to tell us.
He never said a word about taking it forcefully from you. There was no strong arm thievery afoot. I'm not a big guy so intimidation is not my strong point. We caught you off guard and called you out. That's as far as it goes.
If the intent was to just take it then I never would have been there or his son. No threats either except of calling the police. Not even harsh language or vulgarity. Still none. It was an option as you don't have the original snake, it's the only snake you have, and monetary value was at a stand still on negotiation.
Seriously, the last one bothers me the most because it's not like we surrounded you while you cradled your baby in your arms fearfully. I'm a father of two myself and I know it may be out of left field coming from me given the circumstance, but I am happy for you both and wish the best for you in regards to being a new parent. I honestly do from one parent to another, no ill will.
There was mention of the show. I have been at every one for the last 10 or so years. The only ones I have missed were the May 06 due to my daughters birth and the last show, second day. There all day Saturday but not on Sunday. I used to see you both from time to time. I didn't see either of you after the python deal, which was kind of shady to me. I'm not hard to find either. My phone number hasn't changed since I first got a cell phone, email is the same and I stand out in a crowd. I have been there behind tables since the fall 08 show. That's all I can say for shows.
As far as where I fit in all this, I saw, heard and read what I have needed to. I wanted to see this through face to face because there's no ducking, dodging or any run around. These confrontations tend to be more honest and now I know what happened to the snake. I felt taken advantage of because I reached out to someone whose knowledge on certain species is unquestionably well with the feeders, animals and a loaner and I got burned. Well, I got my friend burned.
Things added up to me as I didn't see them at shows, hadn't heard from them, Scott hadn't, and now I recall whenever I had dealt with them it was always meeting somewhere. I had hoped to see the collection I had heard about and had no qualms with inviting them to see what I have. Granted if I knew where they lived it may have been different, maybe not. l wasn't sure if they had moved or what. Just figured they got us. What would you do if someone you strongly felt scammed you resurfaced?
I know we are a couple of nobodies around here. There are people I associate with in the reptile community locally and on-line that know me well enough to vouch that I don't do devious, but generous. Not that you would believe them or me now. I'm not going to lie about what transpired, then and now. I'd tell you that Ed is damn good with his monitors just as fast as I'll tell you they did us dirty. Because I call it like I see it.
Hell, I'm probably wasting my time, I'll have a red flaggy thing or be straight banned for coming to my friend's aid, but damn the torpedoes I'd do it again if I had to. I read and noticed we probably didn't stand a chance to begin with. Right or wrong. But I proved my hypothesis and buried some bones for good.
Now I'm in a one sided fist fight. Neat!! It's a new experience. Life's full of 'em.
Not one sided you say? I dunno friend. I'll post something and you draw your own conclusion on if there was a conflict of interests or we have had a fair trial. Scroll down to the bottom of the page and click on the first one if it's still there. Should read:
Who is Logician, and why is he editing my adds?
Tammy, Ed. If you've read this far; just want to say I'm done. I've said all I have to say. Sure I might see you at a show or something; I'm not gonna make no scene or wish any ill will on you and your family. If I were to see you on the side of the road with a fire under the hood, I'd still stop and give you the extinguisher in my truck. Still feel like I was done dirty, but that doesn't mean I hope something bad happens to you. I may live with ectotherms, but it doesn't mean I'm a cold blooded monster. Good luck with the new family.
Robb "Blue" Wynne
Alright. No responses anymore. I'm a sittin' duck. Fire away!
dturner100
New member
I'm sorry to say but this whole thing is nothing more than hear say. Both sides have very convincing stories, and it seems the crowed has taken a bit to either side depending on their type of empathy. This still doesn't change the fact that there's no proof of anything and it's still all hear say.
I'd say if EITHER story is true then shame on BOTH of you for conducting such poor business practice but this shouldn't be in the BOI as a bad guy thread if there's no proof of such. It barely qualifies for a discussion thread. More of a gossip column?
I'd say if EITHER story is true then shame on BOTH of you for conducting such poor business practice but this shouldn't be in the BOI as a bad guy thread if there's no proof of such. It barely qualifies for a discussion thread. More of a gossip column?