Luis Taracena (herphobbiest) bad deal

It upsets me to have to make this post as it is only the second time I've had to do this. However, I am getting nowhere at resolving this issue on my own, so I am here to ask for the help of this community. Below is a brief summary of my deal with Luis Taracena followed by all of our emails.

On December 21, 2005 I emailed Luis about an ad he had posted on KS. I made him a trade offer that he accepted after we traded pictures and spoke on the phone. We agreed to an even trade and that we would each pay our own shipping costs. It was also agreed that we would wait until after the holidays to ship.
When the time came, I shipped first because I had suggested the trade offer. I shipped my half of the trade on January 10, 2006 for delivery on January 11. Luis was supposed to ship his half the following week, but called me on Sunday, January 15 and said that he had a problem. He said that he lost his job and didn't have the money to ship them. He promised me that he would have it within two weeks. I said no problem, things happen. He also said that he would go ahead and mail me the paperwork on the ball pythons so I would at least have that. Well, nothing ever showed up, so I emailed him on Feb. 6 asking where the paperwork was and if he was ready to ship yet.
The next day I noticed that he had posted on the Fauna classifieds in response to an ad. He was trying to buy an adult male albino from someone else. I thought this was odd and I called him on it. He denied it, which I knew was a lie since I saw the ad myself. He told me the albino was doing fine and that he had put it with his females for breeding. He even posted pictures of it on boaphile's website.
On February 21, Luis emailed me stating that he was hoping to ship the following Monday. He also noted that he had got a couple loose stools and mentioned that he had only eaten a few times. He said that he had not taken a stool sample into the vet because he didn't have the money. I responded that I had never had any problems with him, and if he is not eating, then something is wrong with him. I told Luis that I wished he had let me know sooner, since by now it had been in Luis' posession for a month and a half and it had been in with his breeding groups.
When it came time for him to ship again, he called me on Feb 26 saying that the albino had died. He said he would send me pictures and we both agreed that a necropsy should be performed. I told Luis that if it turned out to be a long term illness, I would stand behind him 100%. If not, then we would discuss what to do.
It is now March 21 and I have still not been able to get the necropsy results from Luis.

Matt Crabe

Here are the emails:

Hi,
Would you be interested in making an even trade for an adult (proven breeder) male albino boa? If so, shoot me an email and I can send you a pic. I can also provide references if needed.

Thanks,
Matt Crabe

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From : Luis Taracena <[email protected]>
Sent : Wednesday, December 21, 2005 8:24 AM
To : [email protected]
Subject : Re: Message about: 1.1 SUBADULT HET ALBINO BALLS - Easy Payment Plan

| | | Inbox


I would like to see pictures and get me as much infor as possible. Luis



Luis,


Here is a pic of him breeding a big Suri last year when he was on breeding loan at Alix Smith's house. She was about 8' and the male is probably 4.5' or so. I can get an exact measurement if you need it. I keep most of my males small as I feel they make better breeders. This year I did not breed him as my better looking albino het stripe proved to be a great breeder with 2 females. So, I just no longer have a use for this guy. He eats f/t med-large rats without hesitation and is perfectly tame. I don't mean handleable, but really tame! If you have any other questions, don't hesitate to ask.
As for the BP hets, does the paperwork from EBN have photo ids to prove that those are the actual hets? I would just want to cover myself when buying hets. Also, what year were they produced?
Thanks,
Matt


From : Luis Taracena <[email protected]>
Sent : Wednesday, December 21, 2005 9:07 AM
To : Matthew Crabe <[email protected]>
Subject : Re: Message about: 1.1 SUBADULT HET ALBINO BALLS - Easy Payment Plan

| | | Inbox


Matt, Call me... Luis - 520 xxx xxxx



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From : Matthew Crabe <[email protected]>
Sent : Monday, January 9, 2006 8:53 AM
To : [email protected]
Subject : Re: Message about: 1.1 SUBADULT HET ALBINO BALLS - Easy Payment Plan

| | | Inbox


Hey Luis,

I never got an email with your address and I tried calling you a couple of times last night, but couldn't get a hold of you. Shoot me your address and we can set up a new time to ship. I won't be able to ship today like we originally discussed because I didn't bring him with me to work since I couldn't confirm with you. If you changed your mind about the trade, just let me know. It's no problem, I would just like to know so I can sell this guy.

Thanks,

Matt


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From : Luis Taracena <[email protected]>
Sent : Monday, January 9, 2006 9:15 AM
To : Matthew Crabe <[email protected]>
Subject : Re: Message about: 1.1 SUBADULT HET ALBINO BALLS - Easy Payment Plan

| | | Inbox


Matt,

I thought I did send you that email... My bad!!!
(Actual info left out)


Okay, how does shipping tomorrow for a Wednesday morning delivery work for you?


From : Luis Taracena <[email protected]>
Sent : Monday, January 9, 2006 10:36 AM
To : Matthew Crabe <[email protected]>
Subject : Re: Message about: 1.1 SUBADULT HET ALBINO BALLS - Easy Payment Plan

| | | Inbox


Yes!

Luis


Here is where Luis postponed shipping and offered to mail the paperwork.



From : Matthew Crabe <[email protected]>
Sent : Thursday, January 26, 2006 7:00 PM
To : [email protected]
Subject : Re: Message about: 1.1 SUBADULT HET ALBINO BALLS - Easy Payment Plan

| | | Inbox


Luis,

Here is my address for you to send the paperwork. Let me know about shipping in a couple weeks.

Matt Crabe

17 Rodgers St. Vallejo, CA 94590



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From : Matthew Crabe <[email protected]>
Sent : Monday, February 6, 2006 10:40 AM
To : [email protected]
Subject : Re: Message about: 1.1 SUBADULT HET ALBINO BALLS - Easy Payment Plan

| | | Inbox


Luis,

How are things coming with getting those balls shipped out? Also, I have not received the paperwork for them. Have you sent it yet?

Thanks,

Matt



From : Matthew Crabe <[email protected]>
Sent : Tuesday, February 7, 2006 1:21 PM
To : [email protected]
Subject : Re: Message about: 1.1 SUBADULT HET ALBINO BALLS - Easy Payment Plan

| | | Inbox


Luis,

Please get in touch with me about shipping the ball pythons to me. Once again, I still have not received the paperwork you promised either. I would like to get this resolved asap. Please call me at (925) 212-1039. Also, I saw that you posted on Fauna about purchasing another adult male albino on 1/27/06, so you must have the funds now to ship these snakes to me.

Thanks,

Matt



From : Luis Taracena <[email protected]>
Sent : Tuesday, February 21, 2006 10:44 PM
To : Matthew Crabe <[email protected]>
Subject : Re: Message about: 1.1 SUBADULT HET ALBINO BALLS - Easy Payment Plan

| | | Inbox


Matt,

I will have a check coming on thursday.... I work 46 hours last week shipping and I am hoping to ship as soon as Monday. (I will work arround my wok schedule to ship ASAP)

Also here are some pics please tell me what you think. I have got the Albino to eat 2 times... And he looks good. (Not interested in any of my girls)

However, I have got two stools like this...

I am having him now in quarentine in a separate room. Have you experience anything like that with him before? I did save a stool sample to have it look at by my Vet. However, my Vet recomend me to get a fresh sample when I have the money next week.

I would like to thank you for being so very patient with me. I hope to prove to you 100% that I will make things right and as soon as I have some babies I will definitely keep you in mind if you are interested on any of them.

You should have got the paperwork by now... I will check my PO Box to see if it has comeback too me or something.

Feel free to call me anytime after 6:30PM Arizona time. Regards, Luis Taracena




From : Matthew Crabe <[email protected]>
Sent : Wednesday, February 22, 2006 7:44 AM
To : [email protected]
Subject : Re: Message about: 1.1 SUBADULT HET ALBINO BALLS - Easy Payment Plan

| | | Inbox


Luis,

Thanks for getting back to me. I have never had any problems with the albino. He has been a picture of health since I got him two years ago and has never even refused a meal while in my care. He was feeding on f/t med-large rats every 14 days while in my care. I only feed my males every other week. I don't know what's going on with those urates, I've never seen anything like it before. If he is not eating regularly for you, something is wrong. Either he is sick or he doesn't like your temps/setup. I wish you would have let me know this sooner as you have had him for a month and a half now and he has been in with some of your animals.

Please keep me informed about shipping the balls. Shipping on Monday for Tuesday delivery would work best for me. Let me know.

Matt




From : Luis Taracena <[email protected]>
Sent : Monday, March 6, 2006 8:48 PM
To : Matthew Crabe <[email protected]>
Subject : Re: Message about: 1.1 SUBADULT HET ALBINO BALLS - Easy Payment Plan

| | | Inbox


Here are the pics...

Here he is exactly how I found him, dead in the cage....

you can see some what in these bad pics that he did crap all over the cage like the picture I showed you earlier.

Like I said before the first time he took that nasty crap, I did not think much of it. The second time I worried... the thrid time he was dead.

In the time he was here he ate only 2 large frozen thaw rats. The same rats I have been feeding all my other snakes. I have raised my Boas since 2000 on the same rats.

The only snakes the Albino was with was a CB 2000 Pastel Female 100% Het Albino

And my CB 2002 Salmon Hypo 100% Het Sunglow from Jeremy Stone.

He was there to spice up some action with the Salmon Hypo Het Sunglow for about 4-5 days.

Then I removed him out of the cage to house him alone in a rack system. the picture of him I sent you before...

When I got the second loose stool I took a picture and ask you if you had any issues with him. Remember?

I have not heard from the Vet ...I will call tomorrow morning.

I will get off work at 8:00 PM AZ Time and I will let you know what I have the Vet found out so far...

Luis.

PS. I do appologize I know I have not been good lately at following through... You are not the first person to tell me this. And I realize know it must be getting really bad. I have been working 12 hour days, 6 days a week with a 45 minute comute. When I get home I just eat, take a shower, Spend a few minutes with the kids, check on the animals, clean a few cages, give them clean water... and I am off to bed. If you need to contact me call my cell phone, 623 xxx xxxx I can call you back on my next break from work.






From : Matthew Crabe <[email protected]>
Sent : Monday, March 13, 2006 5:31 PM
To : [email protected]
Subject : Re: Message about: 1.1 SUBADULT HET ALBINO BALLS - Easy Payment Plan

| | | Inbox


Luis,

It has been another week and still no word from you about the vet. I am sorry for any personal problems you are having, but that should not keep you from following through on your promises. It has been two weeks now since you were going to have the necropsy done. There is no way it is taking this long to get the findings. Please let me know what they are so we can agree on a way to close this deal.

Thanks,

Matt


From : Matthew Crabe <[email protected]>
Sent : Tuesday, March 21, 2006 9:43 AM
To : [email protected]
Subject : FW: Re: Message about: 1.1 SUBADULT HET ALBINO BALLS - Easy Payment Plan

| | | Inbox


Luis,

It has now been another week since I sent the email below and I have not received a response from you. I feel I have given you more than enough chances to come to an agreeable conclusion to this deal. I was willing to work with you, but you repeatedly ignored me and made up excuses. This email is to inform you that I will be placing a bad guy post about you on the BOI later today. If you decide to ship me what is owed or send $1500 as reimbursement, I will also post that on the BOI.

Matt Crabe

additional info

Here's a link to where Luis was trying to buy an adult male albino when he couldn't even afford to ship his half of the trade to me. If someone can post a screenshot of it I would appreciate it.

Matt Crabe


http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67084

Matt, It certainly seems that Luis got in over his head with this trade. Whatever personal reasons that prevented him from shipping his end of the deal is certainly a factor in preventing him to afford a necropsy of your boa. It seems he is in a jam and for some reason he hasn't the skills to rectify the situation. I certainly hope that an amicable end result is in the future.

Luis, perhaps your best bet is to communicate what exactly has happened and work toward a solution. Matt seems to be a reasonable person to deal with and I think some communication will go a long way toward making this right.

Art Klass

want to make something clear...

... This guy is in NO way connected to Ron Radloff who does business as The Crawl Space. I wanted to clarify this because my email addy is [email protected] which is similar to his. I emailed him a while back and ask him if he could use something different because it was so similar and I've had this addy for years. He never responded back, this is exactly the reason I was concerned. Hopefully people recognize that we are 2 different people and NOT connected in any way. thanks

for some reason my name didn't appear at the end of my post

Matt.... I really hope you can get satisfaction from this fiasco, but....

WHEN YOU SHIP FIRST.... 99% of the time....

Your animal will come down with some mysterious illness....

Your animal will not eat....

Your animal will have parasites that were never there before....

Your animal will die....

The trade animal will not be shipped because "the poor guy" can't afford it (yeah, right)....

STOP SHIPPING FIRST!!!!!.... HOW MANY TIMES MUST YOU PEOPLE HAVE TO HEAR THAT BEFORE YOU GET IT THROUGH YOUR HEADS???....

I'm truly sorry your deal had to come to this, but, you asked for it??....

Now, if any of you would like to have this discussion AGAIN (for the umteenth time), just ask....

Neil

When Doing Trades

Neil, I've read your statement for the um teenth time lol, but isn't it fairly common practice for the person who initiates a trade to ship first? A trade was agreed to so if both parties take your stance not to ship first, I have to wonder how is anyone supposed to do the trade since nobody's willing to make the first move?
I prefer to do trades in person whenever possible or with well known reputable people in the business that can be trusted. To add fuel to this situation, I considered doing a trade with Luis before Thanksgiving. I remember seeing some negative information either here on the BOI or heard bad feedback from a friend so I was leary. Luis and I went back and forth and he was going to ship first since I told him about the bad info I'd found out about him. Guess what? When it came time to ship he gave me the same story. He lost his job and couldn't afford to ship blah blah so the deal fell through. This happened in early to mid November of 2005. It seems to me he'd been out of work well before MDC became involved with his deal. Luis should have known that financially he was in no shape to do anything. Then one has to wonder what was Luis doing looking at another deal worth thousands of dollars if he was broke? A person who's broke doesn't do that unless they were planning to "work" their next victim.
The way Luis made it sound was he suddenly lost his job and couldn't pay shipping. IMO, I think the whole thing's a common ploy he uses to get the other party to ship first.
Did Luis even provide any proof he ever brought the dead albino boa to the vet? Something like that has to be done immediately after the animal dies otherwise decay can cause problems with the necroscopy results. I'd like to at least see proof the animal was brought to a vet. Then obviously the necroscopy report is a must also. If Luis can't provide this then I'd say he owes full restitution in the form of cash or following through with the trade as originally planned (not that I'd want one of his animals knowing disease may possibly be present). I'm not sure of the distance involved between the two parties (CA to AZ) but I think I'd be tempted to take a trip.

Greg.... It's really not a hard concept.... It's YOUR animal.... If YOU want to take the chance of shipping first with someone you don't know, go for it.... The only thing that bugs me is that when they do, and it falls through, they come here and cry about it.... well, DUH???.... I'm sorry, but I have no pity for them at all.... they took the chance, it backfired.... now take it like a man and LEARN from it.... This only goes for people you DON'T know and have NEVER done business with before.... As I've said umpteen times, there should be NO deal that you should want that badly, you would risk losing your animal.... If THEY don't want to ship first (even if it was YOU that initiated the trade), DON'T DO THE DEAL AND WALK AWAY!.... There will be another deal just like it right around the corner.... It's people's GREED that makes them do stupid things.... Just sit back and THINK about it for a second.... There are some very well-spoken con artists out there (and I think we ALL know a couple) who will take you for the ride of your life.... That's one reason I have NEVER been burned in a trade.... I don't care WHO wants to trade with me.... Even if it's the Devil himself.... Send me your animal, if I like it, I'll send mine out immediately.... I KNOW I will ship MY animal out, so if they "say" they're sending their's out, and it never shows up, WHO CARES??.... I'm not out a penny and I still have my animal.... You're more than welcome to take whatever chances you want with your animals (if you don't know the person).... I just HATE hindsight.... and if *I* follow my OWN advice, I'll NEVER have a problem.... Just don't come here shouting about it when you get scammed....
Well, you know what I mean.... Of course come here to warn other's of them, but don't expect too much sympathy....

Neil

I completed a deal with Luis this past Fall (November I believe) and it went off without a hitch. However, I used a well known third party to help broker the deal as I too, had heard some negative things about Luis. I am sorry you were taken and I hope Luis will stand up like a man and take care of this. If he does not, then I assure you he will lose my future business (he has several animals I am interested in).

Griz

Neil...

Neil,

I came here primarily to get the word out about Luis. To tell you the truth, I really don't expect anything from Luis, although I do feel he owes me the animals to complete the trade.

I must say I don't understand your statement though. Trading is no different than purchasing. You are just sending one commodity instead of another. So by your statement, I shouldn't send you money until you send me an animal. It just doesn't make sense.

Matt Crabe

Luis....

Luis,

I have an offer from someone in your area to come pick up my animals and ship them for you. Apparently you have a habbit of ripping people off and some people are getting tired of seeing you do this. This person was nice enough to call me and offer this, so this should solve your problems of not having money to ship.

I suggest you take this offer in order to keep what little reputation you might still have. Remember word travels fast in a community like this and I will do everything in my power to get the word out about you. Please contact me so we can set this up.

Matt Crabe

If no one should send their animal first........there could be no trades....?

And Matt made an excellent point. When you purchase an animal, there too you are making a trade as such, only you are exchanging or "trading" money for the animal. Therefore, should no one "shout about it" when they trade money for an animal and not receive it?

Matt...sounds to me like you keep getting the "poop end of the stick" from people who just won't ship...

Sorry to hear about this.

Trades are a little harder to litigate that a direct cash deal...too many variables that are hard to prove.

I have very few people I would consider a trade with that wasn't done in person. And all of the ones I would are people that are either publically well known for their business integrity, or people I know well enough to trust personally.

Hopefully you can get this guy to respond...
At least with the necropsy results...of course, if he had followed quarantine procedures, it would have been much easier to establish fault in this animals death...or prevented it.

Good Luck.

There is a difference

When you purchase an animal, there too you are making a trade as such, only you are exchanging or "trading" money for the animal. Therefore, should no one "shout about it" when they trade money for an animal and not receive it?

Click to expand...

Without getting into the "who should ship first" debate. There is a difference between an animal and cash. With many forms of cash payments you do have recourse and can often get your money returned. Also noone can say your check died, got sick or didn't look good enough.

Kevin

Matt.... I totally understand what you're saying, and in part, I agree with you.... but, as Kevin just said, there is a BIG difference between a cash sale and a "trade".... but, even on a cash sale, I STILL FOLLOW MY OWN RULE.... Why send money to someone you don't know, have never done business with or is just a "weekend warrior"??.... There are MANY well-known people in this industry who will have the same animal as the no-name person.... Why take the chance??.... and even if this person IS on the up and up, how do you know his shipping methods will be up to the industry standards, what type of box he'll use, what company he will ship through (USPS??), if they'll even insert a heat, or cool pack??.... there are just too many variables.... With the established company, you can basically take for granted that they KNOW what they're doing.... it is WELL WORTH the extra couple of bucks to insure a live delivery of a healthy animal.... and, as Kevin said, there are recourses that can be taken in the event something goes wrong....
As I said before, it's YOUR money and YOUR animals.... take whatever chances you want.... I just prefer to do business with people I can TRUST to do the right thing and not give these BS excuses when things don't go right....
Believe me, I'm not trying to rag on you or berate you in any way.... you took your chance and it backfired.... lesson learned....

Neil

I agree, if no one ships first in a trade, no one would trade! I'm sure there's several trades that happen everyday including shipping that go well, we only hear about the bad ones!

If I ever do a major trade that has to be done with shipping, I will be doing it through here: http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=826

I might not trust all people in this hobby but I trust Fauna

Jessy

Jessy.... you're kidding, right??.... What makes you think that just because someone advertises on THIS site makes them reputable??.... As good as this site is, that just makes it EASIER for the scammer to ply his trade.... You're just playing with fire with that type of attitude....

Neil

Neil,

I agree with what you are saying to some extent, however I do have a couple comments.

1. There are a lot of honest "small timers" in this business, including
myself. So for me to say that nobody should buy from a small time
breeder would be shooting myself in the foot.

2. I have only had two bad experiences. This one and one with a big
time, well respected breeder. So for me, the problem hasn't been just
because I dealt with unknown people.

Matt Crabe

I don't know either one of them but it looks like Matt got took from the start. Cash or no cash, a man/women is only as good as his/her word! From the start Matt held up his end of the bargain, Luis did not. He has been less then truthful the whole time, from the start I might add. If he would have shipped his end of the trade the first time, or even the second time, this thread would not be here. IMO, it looks like he never intended to fulfill his end of the deal from the start. I might also add we have yet another that was given the same excuse from Luis. IMO, Matt had every right to make this thread. He got took, regardless if it was cash or a trade. I find this statement a hard one to beat. (Say what you mean, and mean what you say) anything else is less than the truth. Luis needs to make this right. I would also suggest he provide proof of the cause of death with this snake. Anything can kill a snake in six weeks. If he cannot provide proof, then the debt is still owed. He did not complain when he received the snake at the start. IMO, his only way out is to make this right. I would also like to say this. If the snake died, then so be it. But that does not excuse Luis from his actions. Matt, I am glad you made this thread. Is that not what BOI at Fauna is all about? IMO, it is better to find out if Luis is safe to deal with, now we know. Cash or trade, it needs to be posted.

I don't trust them because they are on here! I just think it would make it easier to publically hammar out the details. Also I think the more people who see how to do a successful trade will know what to do themselves if they need to.

I guess you've had some bad experiences? It's awful that everyone is not in this hobby/addiction for the love of the animals. I'm in Canada so trading across the border for cites snakes is pretty much moot.

As for Matt, I hope for you that you can have this resolved, Luis has no excuse for his actions and all he can do now to redeem himself is to ship the snake he was supposed to. I hope your next trade goes well Matt, and that you are not jaded by this bad guy!