Repticon Shows

Wondering how many of you here (both vendor & non vendor) attend any of the Repticon shows? What is your opinion of them as far as variety, attendance, parking, admission etc.?

I've only done one. It was the one in Augusta Georgia. I was very disappointed, but most of the vendors did well. I think that I was placed in a spot where not many attendees ever looked. I barely made expenses back.

I have been to several Repticon shows in various Florida cities. They are usually quite small and draw several hundred, but rarely over a thousand, people to attend. I think most have about 20 - 40 vendors or so.

I have never made much money at them, but I go to the local one when it is in town because I have very little expense to go, and I can help out the local herp society too, with their free table. The Society sometimes makes more in donations and t shirt sales than I do on what I sell, so it is still worthwhile even if just to help them at the local show.

From what I have seen, some of the vendors with cheap import stuff (especially cheap turtles and lizards) do pretty well at the Repticon shows. I do feel that a high percentage of what I see the public (novices) buy at those small shows are cheap import lizards that are not too easy to keep long term. Wish there was some way to counter what will probably be a poor first experience for newbies getting into herps.

I really like the people that run the Repticon shows. They are personable, flexible, and easy to get along with. If their shows were more profitable, I would do more of them around Florida.

Yes, the people that run the Repticon are great people. They try really hard to make them good shows. But it just isn't profitable enough for me to vend. However, if there were to be one more local, I wouldn't hesitate to at least try it one more time.

Not picking on any one show but Kathy said

right or alluded the point of where there are imports allowed, many first timers or people getting into the hobby with a few herps already, gets turned off by a really hard species of import to keep. This is due to several reasons : non-knowledge, sales of imports are cheap or cheaper, the buy/purchase on spot or compulsiveness/compulsion of factors of color and or pattern, etc. What I find detrimental is that so many reptile societies put on shows and while doesn't allow the sales of imports and or farm raised herps at their shows, will have members selling at the allowed import shows. I myself being in the reptile show scenario as a vendor for over 7 years, competed with my captive bred/born versus imports and farmed vendors. I see nothing really wrong with some imports if it is not of reasons of losing populations of wild or the decimation of wild, but as it was decades ago on imported species, the prospective buyer need to be told as to the needs of all aspects of keeping and really be told just how hard it is to keep. Oops. I also think the buyer should play the role or consider the " impulse " syndrome of restraint. My .02 cents.

old guy said:

I see nothing really wrong with some imports if it is not of reasons of losing populations of wild or the decimation of wild, but as it was decades ago on imported species, the prospective buyer need to be told as to the needs of all aspects of keeping and really be told just how hard it is to keep. .

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The main reason I posted the questions about the Repticon show was to simply get a little input about their shows in general. I am booked to do my first Repticon show as a vendor in Jacksonville. I have been to several of the ones they held in Fort Myers, not as a vendor - but I did help man the table for the Calusa Herp Society. And Kathy was also at those, and she was right - the club actually faired much better than she did.

But in response to a comment you made, the thing I dislike the most about the imported & farmed raised animals is that the seller usually does not take the proper steps in acclimating the animals before selling them.
This only leads to very bad experiences on the buyers part. Especially if it is their first reptile purchase.

You make a great point. How many people purchases a WC animal that actually live? New owners do not possess the knowledge to care for heavily parasitic species. Many are not even told to take it to a herp vet for stool checks & physicals. But these imports are not sold at only sold at the Repticon shows, but most other shows as well. Even Daytona, (which clearly states CB animals only), have a great nimber of vendors that try to pass off WC as CBs.

Unfortunately, some of the species (mostly lizards) that I have seen sold most frequently are cheap, colorful species that are just high maintenance animals, and are not for the beginner. But the price and color attract mostly beginners. I don't think they would do much better if acclimated. It is education that the sellers are not providing.

I also see a number of beginners carrying around cheap baby Burmese pythons and worse, baby African rocks, sometimes sold for as cheap as $25. Of course they will do well, but we know what that problem is doing for our hobby / industry, especially here in Florida.

I don't know exactly what the show promoter can do about this. Seems like they either allow imports, or not. Many imports are just fine. So I don't know how the promoter can force the vendor to be more honest and informative to their novice customers, or to not sell cheap, difficult species at all. The herp society could maybe have a poster warning people to research first, but I doubt that it will do any good. I am not sure how a show can allow w.c. (which is not ALL bad, in my opinion), yet still make sure that impulse buyers don't get sucked into buying cheap, pretty, herps that will likely die soon.

I guess as vendors we can do what we can to educate people who buy, at least the ones who buy from us ( I know I spend HOURS talking to people at shows - even if they don't make a purchase). And the only other place buyers can learn (other than the vendors themselves) is the internet - Herpetological Societies & Books And of course thru first hand experience (but that usually comes with a price, such as the death of an animal).

I give out a general care sheets with EVERY animal I sell at a show. I also have many care sheets on my website. I know there is controversy about who's care sheet is right and who's is wrong. But, something is better than nothing. I think that ALL the vendors should give care sheets with the animals they sell. It does not cost much at all. I think its a great thing when I see a Local Herp Society w/ a table and the have free care sheets for anyone to take. It should be mandatory at everyshow.
Weather the vendors do it or the promoters......it can only do good.

I have already talked w/ Alex about this, and you may start seeing more care sheets at his shows. ( I believe Alex's Tampa show is the only show I see several local herp societies offering care sheets)

I know that you give lots of info at shows, and so do I and so do many of the captive breeders. But our colubrids (and many other c.b. herps) are not the ones that are mostly causing problems, either by getting too big, or by dying soon after kids take them home. It is the sellers of imports, especially cheap, difficult to keep imports that appeal to novices, that I am really concerned about. They cause a black eye for the whole hobby, and especially for shows.

Seems like it would be in the best long term interest of promoters and show vendors to have happy customers who return to buy even more herps at the next show, instead of being so disappointed that they never keep a herp again. But I am not sure how to make that happen. Maybe if the w.c. shows became c.b. EXCEPT that they would have a list of beginner pets that do well as w.c. But I doubt that promoters would want to get that picky. Probably they just want to define it by c.b. only, or both c.b. and w.c.

Wish we could get Tina or Billy from Repticon, or Alex, to come on here and discuss this and whether they think it would be practical to try to solve this in some way.

I agree 110%

I hate to see a show full of imported snakes selling Balls for $10 each. among others people who get them do get turned ff buy the mostly hard times they have when there kid cries cause the petsnake never ate and took 5 months to die on them or less. I would LOVE for more promotoers to at the least section off shows or somethingto let ppl know that are customers that one side / show is a Captive bred only and ones for imported animals . It makes it almost impossible at shows to compete with a table of CBB snakes / lizards etc of any type when the table beside you are selling what looks liek he exact same snake for $10$45 and yours are all eating fed shed snake that are priced at $75-100 of course the parents dont know better to relize that the cheap animals iare normally a problem from the start. and spend more time and effort caring for them treating them at a vet then if they buy the more expensive established animals . but i dont expect many promotoers to go that route becasue at smaller show i have done the impoters buy up MANY tables due t the mass of cheap pocket pets they bring with them . Lets face it ... if you get 5 vendors that take 3-7 tables at $100-$150 a table then the math is easy to figure out hey make more money so it wuld take away from there profit to seperate the shows.

Maybe it would be beneficial to have some one at the door handing out flyer's, making potential buyers aware of what to expect when purchasing imported/farm raised animals and animals the will more than triple in size in a years time.

JungleHabitats said:

I hate to see a show full of imported snakes selling Balls for $10 each.

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At the Raleigh show we had farmed Balls and we were very honest and up front with the customers. When asked why so and so's were more expensive, we told them that that was because they were already feeding. We told the customer that ours were fresh out and had not had their first shed and that they have not eaten and that there was NO guarentee on them because of this. We also told them that the price normally goes up once they start feeding.

It would be bad to not be upfront with the customer if you want them to do business with you in the future.

This is a huge issue for me, being a chameleon keeper/breeder. Alex
and Brett hooked me up beyond any and all expectations. I wanted to
set up a table, and try to sell one of my two cages, but I didn't have
anything else to sell. Alex ended up letting me work for him at the info
booth, while at the same time keeping my animals and cages on display
at the info booth - so I was able to give show info, and husbandry info.

I talked to dozens of people, at thebooth and at my presentations. I
had fun. The best part was seeing the people I spoke to go out and
make good decisions on what they purchased.

What bothers me is that I am often forced to "out" a vendor to a
customer. Vendors have a responsibility to not lie to their customers.
Thing is, they never expect someone to be there, telling the truth. When
they DO get outed, they get all pissy.

This show, I had my CB meller's chameleon with me for my
presentation. Some guy came up with one he just bought. It was
clearly justy about to die, any minute. Yet he was told it was a CB. I
told him he was lied to. I'm sure if he had gone to that vendor, the
vendor would have been VERY pissed at me infringing on his business.
Should I feel guilty that he lied? I don't. I also see many animals
(chameleons, since that's that I specialize in) for sale that are so skinny
and dehydrated, they should not be sold - they have zero chance, even
in experienced hands. And yet they are sold. It frustrates me.

Rather than have the promoter bar the sale of these animals outright, I
think promoters should put emphasis on education. My experience
selling books for Tony has lead me to think some sort of husbandry
booth would be benificial. I used to have the books set up at the
entrance of the show, and I'd talk to almost everyone buying a lizard. If
I reccomended books, and then gave advice, if I could. One of the
best thigns abotu this, is that I was able to not only give advice on how
to select an animal, but how to set it up. Vendors default to the cheap,
easy selling supplies. I find that a well-informed, non-impulse buying
(and some of them too) customer wants to get the stuff that's best for
their animal, but usually ends up buying useless cheap stuff, because the
vendors reccomend it!

I can't remember how many times I told people to NOT buy some
things, because they were useless. If they understand WHY a product
is useful or necessary, they'll spend money on it. Just b educating the
people before the sales, I up sold many MANY people from a
chameleon and $50 worth of cages and supplies, to $200+. I only
wish I was the vendor!

And added benifit to informed customers is that much of the cheap,
pointless crap won't be sold anymore. I cannot believe that some
vendors tell their customers that their chameleons NEED a bottle of
calcium drops to add to their water bowl... They put me in a position
to have to make them look stupid, because they try to justify a
pointless purchase to a customer. If only they were selling mineral or
repcal, and pushed THAT.

People that not only KNOW what they should buy, but
UNDERSTAND the reasons behind WHY they should buy it, tend to
buy a lot more, because they are confident in their purchase. There is
a financial incentive to educating your customers.

Eric A

I breed chameleons & bearded dragons. I've had a lot of people come to me with a new purchase & ask my opinion. Some had chameleons with sunken eyes, skinny & dehydrated. Others have shown me tiny little bearded dragons. Almost straight out of the egg. No care sheets. They ask me what they need, even though the lizards were purchased from a different vendor. They almost go into shock when I tell them about all the special lighting requirements along with the supplements. Some are told by vendors to use a hot rock & feed it lettuce. They try to make it look so easy to own a lizard, just to make a few bucks. And fail to mention the couple hundred dollars the new owner will have to spend to properly house their animal. I do give out care sheets. And I also highly recommend buying a book. Care sheets only cover the basics.

audrypayne said:

I breed chameleons & bearded dragons. I've had a lot of people come to me with a new purchase & ask my opinion. Some had chameleons with sunken eyes, skinny & dehydrated. Others have shown me tiny little bearded dragons. Almost straight out of the egg. No care sheets. They ask me what they need, even though the lizards were purchased from a different vendor. They almost go into shock when I tell them about all the special lighting requirements along with the supplements. Some are told by vendors to use a hot rock & feed it lettuce. They try to make it look so easy to own a lizard, just to make a few bucks. And fail to mention the couple hundred dollars the new owner will have to spend to properly house their animal. I do give out care sheets. And I also highly recommend buying a book. Care sheets only cover the basics.

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I guess its all a matter of who they go to first. Unfortunately they ask advice from the the "honsest" breeders AFTER they buy from the dishonest vendors (maybe their not so dis-honest - maybe they just don't how to care for the animals they sell). Bad info can be just as bad as the lack of info.
Thats why they need to be made aware BEFORE they make that purchase.
I guess its hard to pass up that DEAL, but you get what you pay for.

Its obvious that the majority of the vendors selling imported/farm raised animals are not willing to be honest with their customers. So we have to do it for them. Especially if we want to continue to see these buyers come back to these Expos. Out of every 10 sales they make to uneducated buyers...how many to you think return to "waste" their money again?

Maybe the promoters aren't the ones who can (or want) to make the changes, but if they don't, and we don't ..then the government will.

OBES said:

It would be bad to not be upfront with the customer if you want them to do business with you in the future.

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Seems that concept is lost on some. I cannot understand why everyone wouldn't subscribe to that philosophy.

homegrownherps said:

I guess its all a matter of who they go to first.

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Unfortunately it appears that the "cheaper is better" motto is more prevalent than "quality" or "healthy". I've heard customers say, "if it dies I can always get another at the same price which is still less than one of those (pointing to a CB animal)". It's rather sad.

I even hate it when I have a vendor set up next to me at a show, and he has that nasty imported stuff on his table. I am worried I am going to bring home some unwanted "NASTY" w/ me.

And yes, when there is some one like that set up next to me, I speak w/ the promoter. Theres just to many shows here in Florida to worry about missing one or two of them ... no matter how big they are.

Personally, I don't have an issue with informing other vendor's
customers. I'd rather they talk to me than the other vendors! I enjoy
that part, more so than the actual sale, in fact.

This behavior is one of the biggest problems with the shows. It
perpetuates the mentality, even among the customers, that reptiles are
disposable, throw away pets. all thsoe melleri that are sold to ignorant,
unsuspecting people, are thought of ats disposable, "90 day
chameleons". A shame, as this throw away pet has the potential to
outlive a dog or cat. Same for iguanas, leopard geckos and bearded
dragons - these animals can be very long lived, but they're treated as if
they were ornaments.

Pet stores have bad names because of this, and reptile shows are no
different. Thankfully, there are some vendors that do what they can to
help the situation.

I wish shows would put more emphasis on the educational seminars.
Maybe make a bigger deal about making educated purchases.

I can't tell how many times I've seen people buy a very expensive, large
chameleon, in good health, spending $300+, but come home wth a 20"
high cage! Wake up people, if you can sell them a chameleon and tiny
cage for $300, you can sell them a chameleon an dbig cage for $350!
It's that "quick sale" mentality that is a problem.