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4" Turtle Ban Lifted!

W

wwwkcrdcom

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I had heard over the last few weeks that Congress was considering passing bill H.R. 924 Domestic Pet Turtle Market Access Act of 2007. Well according to a very reliable source, who is also a large turtle farmer the bill was passed yesterday. The reason we know this to be true is that PetCo called and placed a very large order today for baby turtles!

Here are the specifics of the bill.

Prohibits the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) from restricting the sale by a turtle farmer or other commercial retail seller of a turtle that is less than 10.2 centimeters in diameter as a pet if: (1) the turtle is raised, shipped, and sold using methods proven to keep the turtle free of salmonella, using salmonella safety standards comparable to standards for other animals allowed for sale as pets or animal products allowed for sale as food products; (2) the FDA has approved a plan submitted by the turtle farmer or seller relating to compliance with this Act; and (3) the farmer or seller makes certain disclosures to the buyer. Sets forth required disclosures, which include: (1) information regarding the dangers that could result if the turtle is not properly handled and safely maintained, the proper handling of the turtle, and the proven methods of treatment that keep the turtle safe from salmonella; (2) a detailed explanation of how to properly treat the turtle to keep it safe from salmonella; and (3) a statement that buyers of pet turtles should not abandon the turtle or abandon it outside, but should instead return them to a commercial retail pet seller or other organization that would accept turtles no longer wanted as pets.
 
the FDA has approved a plan submitted by the turtle farmer or seller relating to compliance with this Act
Click to expand...

Might end up being a signifigant detriment to the ability of the individual dealer to sell them, depending on what the submission and approval process is.
 
From what I can tell....

As long as their is a paper trail that leads back to an authorized farmer, that seems to be all they want. So if I buy turtles from a wholesaler that bought them from a farmer as long as I can show where I got them, I should be fine. I assure you that PetCo isn't going to do a long drawn out paper trail for each 10.99 Red Ear Slider they sell.
 
Just what we don't need...

more Red-eared Sliders in the pet trade! As a rescue, I'm tired of the phone calls to place these for whatever stupid excuse. "I didn't know it would get this big"!
"I'm pregnant"! "I'm tired of caring for it"! And so on. There are some great SMALLER turtles that make much better pets than a red-eared slider.
 
That could be said about any of them...

Fortunately this law works for ALL species of baby turtles. I agree with the complaint but that could go for several species of reptile in the trade.
 
The top 3 problem

animals are Green Iguanas, Red-eared Sliders, and large constrictors (usually burms).
 
I totally agree....

and most often the Burms are almost always normals. Another one I have noticed that is becoming more of a problem is normal Retics.

But not to get off track, this law change will surly have a positive affect on the trade as well as potentially a bad one.
 
Tim Cole said:
The top 3 problem animals are Green Iguanas, Red-eared Sliders, and large constrictors (usually burms).
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I would have to think that the top 2 would be cats and dogs. Lot more of them in rescues(shelters) than any exotics.
 
cahrens said:
I would have to think that the top 2 would be cats and dogs. Lot more of them in rescues(shelters) than any exotics.
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No argument there, but I was just considering our topic of herps.
 
i was just wondering where everyone heard this info. I do work for a petstore, and we are not planning on jumping into this and sell thousands of sliders in plastic lagoons, but i was calling around to see if i could get a 100% yes on the sale of small turtles, everything im coming up with is a no.....the only thing i got is that it was introduced in feb. and never went any further. this is the website thomas.loc.gov and where it asks for the bill number its HR 924 so any new info would be greatly appreciated :D
 
I spoke with a USF&W agent.....

I agree that it seemed very sudden, but I made some calls and the two agents I spoke to said that it was infact a real deal, but one said that it hadn't been put into action yet while the other one said that what I was told by my Turtle Farm buddy was legit. This doesn't surprise me that they all aren't on the same page, especially if you've been following all the crap that's going down in Texas.
 
I was notified of the pending vote by a fairly large dealer (who happens to be a friend). I did keep the links he sent for a few days, but I have since deleted them. Shouldn't be too hard to track down, if you are really interested.
 
Okay so I did a little searching today and here is what I have found. AS of now the bill has simply passed the senate. It now must be voted on by the House of Representatives, and then the president must sign it. How it did pass by a 93-1 vote, so I doubt the house would hold it up, and Bush is almost out so I doubt he cares. The ruling on changing the turtle law is actually an amendment to a bill that is trying to be passed to ensure better drug and medical device safety. Basically the Louisiana governer hid it in within a bill she knew would get passed. You have to love the way the law works.
Shane
www.sewerfest.com
 
There is a reason more dogs and cats are in shelters...

cahrens said:
I would have to think that the top 2 would be cats and dogs. Lot more of them in rescues(shelters) than any exotics.
Click to expand...


In my experience, part of the reason for that is that most casual reptile owners who cannot quickly find a new home for it simply let it die via starvation or general neglect (I got a really nice PTS on the brink of death because the owner didn't want it and no one or no organization would take it so they just put it out in the garage and let it starve/dehydrate). And most people don't care. Kill a cat or dog and you face being ostracized or legally punished. Kill a snake, turtle, or lizard and you're a flippin' hero. Add to it, the few that try to find a rescue call their local Humane Society and are told that the animal will be euthanized as per their nationwide policy and in some case cost the $X to bring it in. Sothe rationalization becomes, "If it is going to die either way--why take the time and spend the money--just kill it with neglect." Some locales ignore this policy but by and large that is their recommendation as they are very oppposed to herp ownership because of my example above.
 
Chadmann said:
In my experience, part of the reason for that is that most casual reptile owners who cannot quickly find a new home for it simply let it die via starvation or general neglect (I got a really nice PTS on the brink of death because the owner didn't want it and no one or no organization would take it so they just put it out in the garage and let it starve/dehydrate). And most people don't care. Kill a cat or dog and you face being ostracized or legally punished. Kill a snake, turtle, or lizard and you're a flippin' hero. Add to it, the few that try to find a rescue call their local Humane Society and are told that the animal will be euthanized as per their nationwide policy and in some case cost the $X to bring it in. Sothe rationalization becomes, "If it is going to die either way--why take the time and spend the money--just kill it with neglect." Some locales ignore this policy but by and large that is their recommendation as they are very oppposed to herp ownership because of my example above.
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:iagree:
 
Back in March a USDA vet came to my house to inspect my ball pythons. She noticed a bin on top of the rack with some dirt/sand mixture, waterbowl, and hide. She asked what was in there because she couldn't find the animal. I asked her if she was allowed to give me any citations or to take any animals from me, and she said that she did not have th authority, she was merely there to check on my husbandry. I opened up my dresser drawer and pulled out a 1.5" Hermann's tortoise that I had placed in a deli cup right before she came. She knew exactly why I did it and she laughed and told me some interesting things: 1.) The buyer cannot be punished for buying a turtle/tortoise under 4"...it is illegal to sell them, not to buy or own them. and 2.) She said that they were working on a bill to overthrow the outdated law anyway. I'm happy to see that it's fairly close to being legit, because sometimes it can be a real hassle to purchase an animal you want.

On the flip side, it makes me a little sad because I know how cute the little turtles/tortoises can be, and many people see them for what they are at that time and don't realize that they can't live in a fishbowl their whole lives, they may die before the tortoise/turtle does, or that sometime there is no commercially made cage big enough for a full grown animal. I know I have seen hatchling sulcatta's and decided I wanted one, then I go, "wait! college...small apartment, no yard, big city...BAD idea!" and put it down. I REALLY wish people would research their animal BEFORE buying the cute little one they see. I also think that sellers should have a moral/ethic responsibility to say, "hey, it looks cute now but it will grow. These are the problems that are going to arise..."
 
droogievesch said:
Back in March a USDA vet came to my house to inspect my ball pythons. She noticed a bin on top of the rack with some dirt/sand mixture, waterbowl, and hide. She asked what was in there because she couldn't find the animal. I asked her if she was allowed to give me any citations or to take any animals from me, and she said that she did not have th authority, she was merely there to check on my husbandry. I opened up my dresser drawer and pulled out a 1.5" Hermann's tortoise that I had placed in a deli cup right before she came. She knew exactly why I did it and she laughed and told me some interesting things: 1.) The buyer cannot be punished for buying a turtle/tortoise under 4"...it is illegal to sell them, not to buy or own them. and 2.) She said that they were working on a bill to overthrow the outdated law anyway. I'm happy to see that it's fairly close to being legit, because sometimes it can be a real hassle to purchase an animal you want.

On the flip side, it makes me a little sad because I know how cute the little turtles/tortoises can be, and many people see them for what they are at that time and don't realize that they can't live in a fishbowl their whole lives, they may die before the tortoise/turtle does, or that sometime there is no commercially made cage big enough for a full grown animal. I know I have seen hatchling sulcatta's and decided I wanted one, then I go, "wait! college...small apartment, no yard, big city...BAD idea!" and put it down. I REALLY wish people would research their animal BEFORE buying the cute little one they see. I also think that sellers should have a moral/ethic responsibility to say, "hey, it looks cute now but it will grow. These are the problems that are going to arise..."
Click to expand...

I find it weird though that you would be allowed to buy an illegal animal but not sell an illegal animal. I think it is just plain illegal to even have possession of an object in an area where that object is not allowed, in this case banned livestock?

Anthony Allis
[email protected]
 
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