A deal gone wrong with Mike Plank at, B.G.R.

[Jim O]

In some industries, producing and selling as many as possible is the goal, but if you look at the Ball industry, if you really step back and look at it, mass production and overproducing should not be the goal. Is the goal to see how quickly one can make every Ball morph sell for $100? "Well $100 x 1,000,000 snakes is still good money." Yeah, it is, good for one person, but what about the people who have purchased snakes in the previous years. If you are trying to push out the little guy, THE LITTLE GUY IS WHO IS BUYING YOUR SNAKES. I hope everyone reads this and sees what the MK guy is all about, and I have to say, it is not good for the Ball market. Selling for cheap is helping your new customer, but any good business has more former customers than new customers, so you are screwing more people than you are helping. Glad I have a good day job and can sit back and shake my head without really having to worry...but I know some people are definately worried, and with this guy producing snakes, people should be worried.

David,

With all due respect, what has this to do with the price of tea in China?

This thread is about a transaction between Joe Capone and Mike Plank.

 

[kmurphy]

David,

With all due respect, what has this to do with the price of tea in China?

This thread is about a transaction between Joe Capone and Mike Plank.

Off and on that is.

 

[Jim O]

Kevin,

I know that it has veered (a lot), but look at the thread title: "A deal gone wrong with Mike Plank at, B.G.R.".

There's a perfectly good thread for people to attack Joe's business ethics and practices without sullying this thread.

 

[ravensgait]

Jim O said '''I know that it has veered "" Veered??? heck it did a U turn then a figure 8 and kept on a going. Randy

 

[Tsutton5]

lol

Jim O said '''I know that it has veered "" Veered??? heck it did a U turn then a figure 8 and kept on a going. Randy

To say the least!!!!

 

[David Reid]

Jim, without any respect

What do 99% of your posts on 90% of the threads on the Boi have to do with anything? Your weak Economics models are missing the point, which has been stated and overstated and stated again, but here it is one more time: It is not about the price dump, but about an arrogant individual who thinks he is bigger than the reptile industry, and has admitted to wanting to crash the Gecko market. I think they are bad for the industry. I have a decent Ball collection, but do not think for a second that anything MK does will bother my bottom line. I just think dropping prices because you over produce a certain animal and to purposefully hurt someone elses business is lame!


Jim, do you even breed Ball Pythons?

Dave

 

[Jim O]

What do 99% of your posts on 90% of the threads on the Boi have to do with anything? Your weak Economics models are missing the point, which has been stated and overstated and stated again, but here it is one more time: It is not about the price dump, but about an arrogant individual who thinks he is bigger than the reptile industry, and has admitted to wanting to crash the Gecko market. I think they are bad for the industry. I have a decent Ball collection, but do not think for a second that anything MK does will bother my bottom line. I just think dropping prices because you over produce a certain animal and to purposefully hurt someone elses business is lame!

OOO...ouch...touched a nerve. The point is this thread was about someone taking the arrogant SOB for five figures. Don't like his ethics? Take it up in the appropriate place, not in this thread. If someone wants to search about Mike Plank and his gecko business they will have to go through pages of your and other BS about someone and his ball python business. For the records, I don't disagree that his motives are "lame" to use your highly sophisticated term but it's still his right to do as he pleases. I also predict that he will fall on his face all by himself without any help from any of you. But that's another story for another day.

Don't like economic models? Don't read them.

Jim, do you even breed Ball Pythons?

No. I sold my last BP's two years ago. Too many assclowns doing that (you know who you are so I need not mention names though I have added a few to my list recently). But again, this thread is about a person who may have gotten taken on some geckos!!!

 

[Chameleon Company]

Jim O.

I agree with everything you have said in this thread, and would like to join you in taking another poster to task, who said the following:

Your weak Economics models are missing the point, which has been stated and overstated and stated again

Sorry DR, but they weren't weak. They were to the point. In your view the point that has been stated over and over again is that MKR is lame. We got that days ago.

I just think dropping prices because you over produce a certain animal and to purposefully hurt someone elses business is lame!

OK, WE AGREE !! ITS LAME !! Its also the free-market !! How about learning to say WTF and moving on? We all exist in the same economic environment .... some of us just don't whine about it so much.

 

[David Reid]

Ass Clown? Is that a new Ball morph

HAHAHAHAH.

I have always told people not to charge Balls, not too borrow money to buy Balls, either pay cash or basically you cannot afford them. There are probably several individuals who wish they would have taken that advice, and now have huge CC bills, owe their parents, or do not have the car they thought they were going to buy with all their profits.

I started with an Albino trio that I purchased with a back paycheck. When money was good, I saved up and purchased Het Pairs of Morphs I could not afford as a Homozygous animal. I spent money I had, that I would not miss, that I probably would have pissed away or used for a nice vacation.

I know have gotten some nice animals in trade, I have made a few bucks cash, and gotten to know some big breeders. This is fun for me, believe it or not. I just have a hard time when someone who, rumor has it, has been handed everything in life, tries to ruin it for those who are trying to get ahead in life. Not everyone has a great job, a family with money, or with money to burn. Some have decided to spend some money and try to make their hobby turn into a second income. They do not want to be millionaires, but just make enough to make life a bit easier. Those people are the ones that have been hurt by the price dump. And those breeders who would have gotten my money this year, have also been hurt, because "I ain't spending" this year, or maybe not for a few years. I too think and hope they fall on their faces, especially after seeing those faces on that abortion that was their TV "show." What about all the people who get hurt on MK's way down?

So you produce a few snakes, and all of a sudden you are the Reptile King? All of a sudden, you can act like a total jackass? Please...I am just really surprised at all of you who support this lack of respect for others and arrogant actions.

 

[Chameleon Company]

Dave,

I am just really surprised at all of you who support this lack of respect for others and arrogant actions.

We don't "support" it. We don't endorse it as a nice thing to do. What we are saying is "welcome" to the system in which your "investments" must compete. The huge margins in the BP morph market meant high risk for all the reasons mentioned: good, bad, unethical, rich mama's boy, etc. Say "hello" to that reality.

Anybody else out there ever laugh at the ungodl;y-hour info-mercials where someone is saying "you too can be rich using my system .... send your checks to .... "

Might I suggest that you "Get Smart"?

 

[David Reid]

Jim O

I honestly got you and the other Jim mixed up, the other Jim is the one that posts on EVERY thread.

Dave

 

[greg4000]

will it ever end

wouldnt now be a good point to stop repeating the same thing over and over and wait for joe to respond as to whether or not he actually got his money back? the original point of this thread has been solved, someone should start a i hate mkr thread so everyone can keep up the repitition.
joe can you please respond when your situation is closed so these people can finally get some sleep?

 

[Casey Hulse]

JoeCaponeIII
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Last Activity: 10-02-2006 02:51 PM
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Warning Level

He has not visited this site for 4 days.

 

[Casey Hulse]

The date on my comp. is wrong.
It has been 3 days

 

[OzzyBoids]

Hi,

I'm Frank from Canada, I too am a victim of this middle man crap. I spent $5000 on a spider, pastel, and black pastel from Ozzyboids. I spoke with Joe and I would have got the same thing package for $2900. I also heard that Oz is not producing all of his animals as he claims. He is a "MIDDLEMAN". He probably paid $2900 for them and sold it to me for $5000.
For all you breeders crying out there, let me ask you this, is it fair I pay an extra $2000 when they are not even your animals? No its not! Spiders are selling for $800 and Oz wanted to sell it to me for $1800 but he said he would give me a deal and sell it to me for $1500. Thanks for making me pay double. Thanks for the favour man.
All you crying breeders are upset because you can't rip the consumer off with your outrageous prices. Come on guys.
Since I spoke with Joe @ MKR, I bought clowns, caramels, genetic stripes, super pastels, pastels and all kinds of females to go with them. If I would have went to any other breeder, I would only be able to get 1 caramel, 1 genetic stripe and 1 super pastel. I now have all the animals I want and am very happy with my collection.
P.S. Joe you have alot of support, whatever you need you have many friends you call me for anything! Goodluck!!!

Frank,

I am really surprised to see this post since the last we spoke you were 100% happy with your animals. I think you are way out of line and had little justification for coming on here and trying to stain my good reputation. I need you to back up these ridiculous accusations with facts by responding to the following:

1. You stated you “heard that Oz is not producing all of his animals as he claims.”

Can you please let us know where you “heard” this and on what basis other than hearsay do you find this to be true? I have brokered animals on numerous occasions and each and every time they were honestly represented including the animals you bought. In fact I am perfectly okay with posting the source of your animals right here on Fauna. The Spider and Pastel came from a trade deal with Bryce Honstead and the Black Pastel I sold for a friend who was down on his luck… by the way I did not make a penny on it, but I did get what I felt was a fair price for him at the time. I believe in transparency when it comes to my animals and always have.

2. You also wrote, “is it fair for me to pay an extra $2000 when they are not even your animals?”

The female pastel and black pastel were exceptional and yes the pastel was priced above market. You knowingly paid more because she was nicer. If you didn’t like the price you were free NOT TO BUY THEM. I price my animals depending on how much I value them. I was perfectly willing to keep that female pastel and that’s why she was priced higher. So stop saying I “ripped you off” when you were an eager buyer.

3. “…. Spiders are selling for $800 and Oz wanted to sell it to me for $1800”

Not everyone is selling them for $800… especially not me. Yes, I wanted $1800 for my males back then and you wanted to buy him too. Today I am asking less as they have come down in price. So where is the problem? I did not put a gun to your head.

4. Finally Frank, what is your motivation for this publicly slandering my business? You have accused me of ripping you off and misrepresenting my animals. Did you not receive your animals in good health and as promised? If you did, then how did I rip you off? Also, you accuse me of misrepresenting my animals based on hearsay… where is the proof?

I think you are just angry that I would not commit perjury by falsifying FWS CITES paperwork and my Invoice so that you could avoid paying customs. I wonder if you have asked MKR to do the same? It’s pretty sad. The prices you paid were market price at the time we closed the deal. It’s unfair for you to compare those prices to today’s prices. I too can sell you that package today for $2900… of course the pastel and black pastel you get would not be of the same quality, but you obviously don’t care about that anymore, right?

 

[OzzyBoids]

Sorry I forgot to sign.

Amad Osman aka Oz
Proud Owner of OzzyBoids

 

[OzzyBoids]

Frank,

I am really surprised to see this post since the last we spoke you were 100% happy with your animals. I think you are way out of line and had little justification for coming on here and trying to stain my good reputation. I need you to back up these ridiculous accusations with facts by responding to the following:

1. You stated you “heard that Oz is not producing all of his animals as he claims.”

Can you please let us know where you “heard” this and on what basis other than hearsay do you find this to be true? I have brokered animals on numerous occasions and each and every time they were honestly represented including the animals you bought. In fact I am perfectly okay with posting the source of your animals right here on Fauna. The Spider and Pastel came from a trade deal with Bryce Honstead and the Black Pastel I sold for a friend who was down on his luck… by the way I did not make a penny on it, but I did get what I felt was a fair price for him at the time. I believe in transparency when it comes to my animals and always have.

2. You also wrote, “is it fair for me to pay an extra $2000 when they are not even your animals?”

The female pastel and black pastel were exceptional and yes the pastel was priced above market. You knowingly paid more because she was nicer. If you didn’t like the price you were free NOT TO BUY THEM. I price my animals depending on how much I value them. I was perfectly willing to keep that female pastel and that’s why she was priced higher. So stop saying I “ripped you off” when you were an eager buyer.

3. “…. Spiders are selling for $800 and Oz wanted to sell it to me for $1800”

Not everyone is selling them for $800… especially not me. Yes, I wanted $1800 for my males back then and you wanted to buy him too. Today I am asking less as they have come down in price. So where is the problem? I did not put a gun to your head.

4. Finally Frank, what is your motivation for this publicly slandering my business? You have accused me of ripping you off and misrepresenting my animals. Did you not receive your animals in good health and as promised? If you did, then how did I rip you off? Also, you accuse me of misrepresenting my animals based on hearsay… where is the proof?

I think you are just angry that I would not commit perjury by falsifying FWS CITES paperwork and my Invoice so that you could avoid paying customs. I wonder if you have asked MKR to do the same? It’s pretty sad. The prices you paid were market price at the time we closed the deal. It’s unfair for you to compare those prices to today’s prices. I too can sell you that package today for $2900… of course the pastel and black pastel you get would not be of the same quality, but you obviously don’t care about that anymore, right?

Sorry, I forgot to sign.

Amad Osman aka Oz
Proud Owner of OzzyBoids

 

[Joe at PHR]

Oz,
You charged Frank 6000 shipped and then backed it down to 5500.00 I was involved from the begining and it was too late. You sold him 2900 dollars worth of animals real money plus a nickle to ship to canada. Anyone could get that package from me at that price. Tht is why he is my customer now..What is he supposed to think and please Oz. Now you never bitch about my prices publicly so I got no beef with you. It is the middle men like Ed who whines about prices. Pays less than I am selling to the public. Tries to slam me becasue he isn't making his animals but can't make the good profit. I bet at 2900 that would have made you deal real slim too. So people this what happens and how and why you overpay for your animals. Oz this isbn't a shot against you it is what it is. Anyone step up but noone will as usuall. I am calling the supposebly big boys who aren't anymore period. That is what it is too. For all you people that are pissed go pay too much for your animals. I work hard for my money and I don't give it away to people that don't produce thier stuff and over pay for it.. By the way I got my money today thanks to some friends in some higher places..

Joe at MKR

 

[BallBoutique]

Glad you received your money!

 

[Casey Hulse]

Anyone could get that package from me at that price. Tht is why he is my customer now..

I do not think Joe has offered any proof whatsoever to justify leaving this thread on the BOI. He has been asked several time to provide some proof in the form of emails etc..And now he is using it to advertise his prices??