A.N.G. Pets and Exotics - Disgusting!

[omni]

Woah! That guy got kinda pissed, I thought to have a lil fun, never thought I'd get a reply, let alone 3! I was sarcastic and probably out of line, but you'll see the type of guy he is, and now I really don't feel bad at sending an ornery msg through KS. Lemme paste the emails I got. I'm only showing brief headers for ease of reading, but have the really long full headers. My orig. msg is in Blue, his typing is in Red:

From: "a.n.g. pets" <[email protected]> Add Mobile Alert
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Message about: EYELESS RED TAIL BOA DOING GREAT
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 23:57:11 -0600
what a straight moron. u must be off fauna er somethin. did u barter wth the pimp when u bought yer wife? this is proof of all the wonderfull attention this guy brings.. adds to his value. thanks ill add this to my ad rt now. go look. no bullshit yer addy n all. go look.

> Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 23:28:31 -0600
> To: yer momma> Subject: Message about: EYELESS RED TAIL BOA DOING GREAT
> From: [email protected]
>
> *************
> NOTE: This message was sent to you via the Kingsnake.com Classifieds. If you feel this message is fraudulent or abusive please forward it to [email protected].
> NOTE: DO NOT flag this message as SPAM/JUNK as your ability to receive legitimate messages from Kingsnake.com Classifieds may be compromised
> *************
>
> Hi, interested in adopting the eyeless RTB...
> Pretty much should be free to a good home. I don't have any boas (I keep corns) and no chance he'll be bred if I own him.
> Thanks, if you decide to drop the price to $free + shipping (as is the moral thing to do, and not a deformity-exploiting scumbag move, I'll be happy to take him. $800!?!?! your kidding, right? Oh, sorry, you must've typoed and meant $80 shipped.. my bad lol
>
> ----------------------------------------------
> Click on (or cut and paste into you browser's
> location window) the URL below to view the ad that
> this message is in response to.
>
> http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?de=570737&cat=8
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------
> This message was sent by an unregistered or non logged in user.
> This person may or may not be who they say they are.
> The return address they provide may or may not be their correct address.
>
> Sent 11:28 PM, Feb 14th, 2008 from I.P. Address 76.244.147.96/adsl-76-244-147-96.dsl.akrnoh.sbcglobal.net

From: "a.n.g. pets" <[email protected]> Add Mobile Alert
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Message about: EYELESS RED TAIL BOA DOING GREAT
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 00:01:44 -0600
ok i added it. go look, yoour ip address is in it too. thanks fer your support n retardation

From: "a.n.g. pets" <[email protected]> Add Mobile Alert
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Message about: EYELESS RED TAIL BOA DOING GREAT
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 00:02:49 -0600
n e more help is greatly appriciated. thank you

I did go check out the listing to see what he changed, but by the time I got there it was pulled. My apologies to herpers everywhere for my taunt at him, but I tried somewhat to be civil (nothing too profane I thought) and still make a point. I wonder if KS will hate me now for being abusive.

 

[richardduckworth]

That is a ridiculous (foolish?) comparison. There is a no correlation between humans and their desire to have children.....and the fact that we, as humans, are capable of contemplating and making the choice whether or not to have children....and the case of someone purposely breeding genetically unsound animals, who obviously can make no choice nor distinction for themselves....for a profit.

That's not even comparing apples to oranges, its more like......apples to elephants.

if people quit buying those animals, how much money would they make?

blame the people who are facilitating this all, the buyers. without a demand, no one would have a supply.

 

[Cat_72]

if people quit buying those animals, how much money would they make?

blame the people who are facilitating this all, the buyers. without a demand, no one would have a supply.

Turn it around....if no one were offering them, no one would be buying them. It's ultimately the seller's choice whether to offer the animal for sale, cull it, or keep it/give it away as a pet where you know that it will not be bred. Greed is a strong motivator, I suppose....

And just because someone might actually be stupid enough to pay a bunch of money for a defective animal, it doesn't make it right, nor something that should be ignored.

 

[ravensgait]

Well this wont go over well but,, I can remember someone running an add on KS and other places last year Looking for oddities such as this IE 2 headed ETC ETC


Now I can't agree with the guy lying and misrepresenting himself here and though I can't say that I personally agree with selling this animal I can't condemn him for doing what he wants with his own animal as long as it isn't being abused.. Randy

 

[addsdad]

...and 1 question...how do u cull a smake? by not using spell check?

cull (kŭl) Pronunciation Key
tr.v. culled, cull·ing, culls

To pick out from others; select.
To gather; collect.
To remove rejected members or parts from (a herd, for example).

n. Something picked out from others, especially something rejected because of inferior quality.


That's how you do it.

Seth Haussler

 

[varnyard]

Well this wont go over well but,, I can remember someone running an add on KS and other places last year Looking for oddities such as this IE 2 headed ETC ETC


Now I can't agree with the guy lying and misrepresenting himself here and though I can't say that I personally agree with selling this animal I can't condemn him for doing what he wants with his own animal as long as it isn't being abused.. Randy

I disagree, I think the animal should not be for sale, it is handicapped for life, to profit from this animal's affliction is wrong in my book. I can just see the nose rubs starting now from the lack of sight. I can also see new eyeless lines of boas being started on the market, just like the no-eyed turtles being sold as special morphs. These animals have no sight and cannot live a normal happy life. So how is life for these animals not abuse? Of course my morals might be higher than others, but that is just my opinion.

As for the seller, well he needs this thread and he is far from an honest seller. JMHO.

 

[Wilomn]

I'd be happy to go with you having DIFFERENT morals Bobby, I don't know as I'd go with HIGHER.

Just because the guy disagrees with you doesn't make him wrong.

Are you going to extrapolate that to humans too? What's the real difference between a boa born with no eyes and a person? I've never been blind for more than a few seconds. I can't really imagine what it's like to have never seen. But, I have known people who have NEVER seen anything and they seemed reasonably happy.

If the snake is taken care of, who's to say it isn't happy? We simply can't know.

 

[Wilomn]

You know what's irritating? Hitting new posts, going to a post, responding to what you think is the last post in a thread that you've read, hitting new posts again and finding out that the last time you hit new posts you missed about 15 posts.

Is this happening to anyone else?

Sort of makes my last post less than what I wanted it to be.

Oh well.

 

[AncientDNA]

Has anyone seen George's latest add?

Only $500 now.
He seems to be getting a real kick out of all the publicity too...

 

[ravensgait]

Bobby why did you have to bring our morals into it?? I didn't expect agreement with my post but to bring in morals !!

Hey I'd be willing to bet that every person posting in this thread does something everyday that is thought to be morally wrong by someone else. Drinking coffee, eating pork or take your pick of most anything we do and someone will find it morally reprehensible.

Hell have a litter of puppies these days and need to cull one or more for any number of reasons and you'll piss some folks off and you may find your vet is even unwilling to do it for you. I don't think they were asking how to Cull A Snake but How to Cull A Smake..

Now if this guys sells this eyeless animal and the buyer receives it only to find it has eyes and was misrepresented then it belongs here.

Hey I can't say I like the idea but it is his right to do what he wants with his animal, let the pissing and moaning continue lol..Randy

 

[ravensgait]

I'd be happy to go with you having DIFFERENT morals Bobby, I don't know as I'd go with HIGHER.

Just because the guy disagrees with you doesn't make him wrong.

Are you going to extrapolate that to humans too? What's the real difference between a boa born with no eyes and a person? I've never been blind for more than a few seconds. I can't really imagine what it's like to have never seen. But, I have known people who have NEVER seen anything and they seemed reasonably happy.

If the snake is taken care of, who's to say it isn't happy? We simply can't know.

Wes, if you look at it that way I'd say a blind snake is better suited to deal with being blind than a human is. We rely far more on our eyesight than they do.. Randy

 

[varnyard]

I'd be happy to go with you having DIFFERENT morals Bobby, I don't know as I'd go with HIGHER.

Just because the guy disagrees with you doesn't make him wrong.

Are you going to extrapolate that to humans too? What's the real difference between a boa born with no eyes and a person? I've never been blind for more than a few seconds. I can't really imagine what it's like to have never seen. But, I have known people who have NEVER seen anything and they seemed reasonably happy.

If the snake is taken care of, who's to say it isn't happy? We simply can't know.

So three legged lizards should be worth more, or even one with only two legs? They are handicaps too. So the boa is not handicapped Wes? He will live a normal life without the gift of sight? And he is worth far more than a normal healthy animal? We are not talking about something being blind, but born with a birth defect of having no eyes, and might very well be genetic as it is in the turtles.

It takes fewer morals to accept this as a good thing; I choose to see it for what it is. There is nothing about this sale that is less then very sorry as well as sad. JMHO.

 

[Wilomn]

JMHO.

Not seeing much HUMILITY here, but such is life.

It may be genetic, it may not.

The simple fact is, you don't know. Yet you're sure you're right. Trust me, I can understand this. I simply don't agree with you this time.

IF someone is willing to pay more for a two legged lizard, then it is worth more. It's as simple as that. While you may not sell or even keep it alive as a matter of your "moral" convictions, you in no way call the shots for everyone else.

You're entitled to your opinions Bobby, but not moral superiority because of them.

I'm a fairly moral and ethical guy. If I had a no eyed boa that someone wanted to buy from me, I'd probably sell it.

Supply and demand. If I kept it I doubt I'd breed it though. I have no need to TRY to supply that demand.

 

[The BoidSmith]

I'm a fairly moral and ethical guy.

Let's say within "some" of the western civilization (which I consider to be aligned also). But the world is big and diverse, and what's moral here...

Although I'm in favor of culling imperfect animals with a demonstrated genetic defect or impaired in any way, I can also understand why other people might decide not to. It would be nice not to make comparisons or extrapolate to humans though...it brings very sad memories of the history of the human race...

 

[varnyard]

Varnyard= Of course my morals might be higher than others, but that is just my opinion.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/morals

mor·al [mawr-uhl, mor-] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation –adjective
1. of, pertaining to, or concerned with the principles or rules of right conduct or the distinction between right and wrong; ethical: moral attitudes.
2. expressing or conveying truths or counsel as to right conduct, as a speaker or a literary work; moralizing: a moral novel.
3. founded on the fundamental principles of right conduct rather than on legalities, enactment, or custom: moral obligations.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morals

Morality (from the Latin moralitaser "manner, character, proper behavior") has three principal meanings.

In its first descriptive usage, morality means a code of conduct held to be authoritative in matters of right and wrong, whether by society, philosophy, religion, or individual conscience.

In its second, normative and universal, sense, morality refers to an ideal code of conduct, one which would be espoused in preference to alternatives by all rational people, under specified conditions. To deny 'morality' in this sense is a position known as moral skepticism.[1]

In its third usage 'morality' is synonymous with ethics, the systematic philosophical study of the moral domain.[2]

Ethics seeks to address questions such as how a moral outcome can be achieved in a specific situation (applied ethics), how moral values should be determined (normative ethics)

I take that to mean less morals means less ethics, or less ethics mean less morals, either way.

So I guess it would based on how ethical someone would think it is. I however see nothing good, right or ethical about it, and that is my opinion. Thus the reason I stated I have higher morals when it come to this. It is also my opinion that the seller has no morals or should I say ethics.

 

[critical bill]

I tossed a midget in a dwarf throwing competition back in the 80's.

Does that make me bad?

They had helmets.

 

[SPJ]

Wow. I had no idea this would turn out like this.
Good catch Dennis.

 

[varnyard]

I will ask a few more questions:

Would it be ok to breed this animal if it is proven to be genetic? If not why?

If you said no to the first question, then why do you think it is ok to sell this one? If it is ok, then why not breed more that bring more money like this poor snake?

That's it, and it is cut and dry, no matter how you care to sum it up.

But I bet most of you will agree it is morally and ethically wrong to produce more of them, why?

 

[Wilomn]

At risk of taking it off topic in a malicious manner, I'll say there is nothing wrong with breeding it if it breeds true.

No one stuck his hand in the mixing bowl and made this snake. It just happened. If it can live and reproduce and there's a market for the babies, go for it.

And also, you keep anthropomorphising this snake. How do YOU know if feels a lack, that it is unhappy, that it knows there is something wrong (and by whose definition is another important question) with it?

If its brain is as small and simple as I think it is, all it really has any care at all about is being warm, getting water and food and MAYBE breeding. Not all snakes want to breed. All of us who do it know that.

I agree that you can feel the way you do Bobby, but I don't agree that it makes you any better than anyone who feels differently. It also, your feeling, does not give you the right to pass judgment for everyone else.

 

[varnyard]

Well Wes, to each his own, I prefer healthy animals that are completely normal as far as all of their body parts intact, anything less is truly sad.

So I must say I disagree with you 110%, and I do not agree with trying to produce more handicap animals just for the money, when in the end to only one to suffer is the animals.