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A question regarding shipping ettiquette

G

GreenVivariums

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I received two separate shipments from two separate breeders on the east coast today. Both were delayed in Kentucky due to a mechanical delay, to no fault of anyone but UPS themselves. Both the shippers and myself were diligently tracking the progress of these shipments, obviously concerned about the well-being of the animals. During one of my status update conversations with one of the breeders, she informed me that shipping costs were being refunded by AllProShipping because the animals were not delivered by the designated time. However, she stated that this money was being refunded to her, not to me, despite the fact that I covered all shipping costs. Is this typical? Both breeders seem like genuinely nice, well-meaning people, and I don't think I'm necessarily being screwed over, but doesn't it stand to reason that if I paid shipping costs and those costs are being refunded, that I should be receiving that refund? Otherwise, both the aforementioned breeders are simply making a larger profit than they originally intended. Please advise --- I don't want to offend anyone, I'm very pleased with the animals themselves and happy they arrived safely, but I would like to understand the logic behind this.
 
This thread has been moved to the General Business Discussions forum. Please review the rules for posting on the BOI; and take a moment to review the different forums (it helps when deciding where to post things).

*duty calls - I'll be back with a response later.
 
In answer to your question, the shipping company won't refund the money to you because you aren't the one that paid them. They refund to the shipper....IMO, the shipper should then pass that refund along to you. Generally (from what I have heard), UPS won't refund for delays due to weather, mechanical problems, etc; but it seems like SYR/All Pro Shipping are taking care of matters.
 
That was my thinking as well. However, my concern wasn't that the shippers were receiving the refund, but that they informed me that they were keeping said refunds because it was "their reputations that were put at stake" by the delay. They also told me it was customary for the shipper to keep any refunds given by AllPro. So, judging by your response, it seems as though I am in fact getting shafted in this situation, and it makes me pretty downright ticked off. And now I don't really know how to push the issue any further, because both these sellers seem to sincerely believe this is the way it should work, as though they are getting an extra $40 each "for their trouble." :mad:
 
GreenVivariums said:
However, my concern wasn't that the shippers were receiving the refund, but that they informed me that they were keeping said refunds
Click to expand...
I guess I missed that in your original post.
were keeping said refunds because it was "their reputations that were put at stake" by the delay.
Click to expand...
uh huh...guess they didn't pause to think of the impact of that statement on their reputations, lol. What a crock.
They also told me it was customary for the shipper to keep any refunds given by AllPro.
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I tend to doubt that, BUT what are the specifics? Were the animals advertised at $XXX, shipped - where shipping is factored in, but you aren't paying an exact dollar amount for it? Were you told that shipping was $42 (example), and required to pay that amount in addition to the price of the animal? Were you told that they charge a flat rate of $40 for shipping?
Also, is the full price of shipping being refunded, or just the difference between the service paid for & the service received?
 
In both cases, I was quoted the price of the animals SEPARATE from a $40 shipping fee. The real joke was this: the first seller told me on the phone that she had just called AllPro, and that she was getting a full refund. I assumed at the time she was telling me this to inform me that I would be getting that shipping fee back. I then e-mailed the other seller and asked her to please check and see if shipping was being refunded to her as well, and if so I would appreciate if she could send it to me via Paypal. I then received a phone call from the FIRST seller about an hour later, who had apparently had a conversation on Pangea with the second seller asking why I had it in my head that I should be getting any sort of shipping refund. That was when the first seller fed me all that BS about "when AllPro gives a refund, it goes to the seller because it's their reputations at stake." I finally received an e-mail back from the second seller (a day later) stating that she was unaware of any sort of refund, but thanks for letting her know and she looked forward to doing business with me in the future. Hilarious. Sorry to totally beat a dead horse on this one, but I've just started doing business on Fauna and I want to have all the protocols down so that I can avoid having these sorts of issues in the future. Oh, and you can be damn sure that if I ever sell someone an animal and shipping gets refunded to me, I won't be keeping any money THAT WASN'T MINE IN THE FIRST PLACE. Ethical business practices are what make people want to do business with you. Why is that so hard to understand?
 
I think I would post about this on the BOI. That is plain bad business practices to not refund shipping charges to you customer on a late delivery. I can understand not doing so if the shipping company won't refund them, for instance if there is a mechanical or weather delay I don't believe Fed Ex will refund (not sure though).
 
When UPS messed up one of my shipments, I was refunded 100% via Allpro.

I would not do business with someone who kept the shipping refund that they received after I paid them. In my opinion that is a bad guy. I agree with Kelli.
 
I certainly would have no problem with it being there...
Since you haven't posted on the BOI yet, I'd suggest reviewing the Rules for Posting on the BOI before doing so - there are some BOI specific rules that you need to be aware of. That thread can be found on the main BOI page...it's highlighted gold, probably around the 5th thread listed.
 
I would definitily be interested in who the seller was. If that is the way they are going to treat their customers... then I dont need to be one of their customers.

If you get refunded shipping for whatever reason... then the refund should go to the customer because THEY are the one that paid the shipping fee's. The seller just collected that money to forward to the shipping company. If the seller was so worried about preserving their reputation.... then they failed!

Please name names
 
The animals were all beautiful, healthy, and packaged appropriately. I decided after much deliberation to direct the sellers to view this thread, rather than post on the BOI. One of the sellers immediately refunded my shipping. The other claimed that getting a refund from AllPro was "too much of a hassle," and that she wouldn't be looking into it any further. One out of two shippers redeemed themselves --- now I just know to avoid the other in the future. As far as naming names, I just don't see the point. It seems petty --- she knows who she is, and hopefully this thread has embarrassed her enough to not make the same mistake in the future.
 
If you don't mind, then, I'd like to pose a related question to people...one that I mentioned earlier. It seems we are all in agreement that in a case like this, the refund should go back to the buyer. What about this situation, though:

A seller advertises an animal for $XXX + shipping, and a prospective buyer offers them $XXX shipped. The seller accepts the offer. There is a problem, and shipping is refunded to the shipper (the seller). I'm interested in people's thoughts about what should happen with that money....does the seller keep it? Should all, or part of it be returned to the buyer?
At present, and not having been in that situation, my feeling is that it is appropriate for the seller to keep that refund. I suppose my response might vary, depending on specifics, though.
 
hhmoore said:
If you don't mind, then, I'd like to pose a related question to people...one that I mentioned earlier. It seems we are all in agreement that in a case like this, the refund should go back to the buyer. What about this situation, though:

A seller advertises an animal for $XXX + shipping, and a prospective buyer offers them $XXX shipped. The seller accepts the offer. There is a problem, and shipping is refunded to the shipper (the seller). I'm interested in people's thoughts about what should happen with that money....does the seller keep it? Should all, or part of it be returned to the buyer?
At present, and not having been in that situation, my feeling is that it is appropriate for the seller to keep that refund. I suppose my response might vary, depending on specifics, though.
Click to expand...

Really - it's all about setting expectations appropriately with the customer and then meeting or exceeding those expectations. Regardless of who is "technically right" - the goal should be to THOROUGHLY DELIGHT your customers because that will only lead to more business. Word WILL get out that you have excellent customer service.

Having said that, here's what I would expect using different examples:

Scenario A) Boa priced at $100 plus shipping.
>> This implies that the cost of the boa is $100 and customer is paying actual shipping, therefore the seller is not counting on any profit from shipping. If shipping gets refunded - it should go to the customer.

Scenario B) Boa priced at $140 shipped.
>> This bundled type of pricing basically says the seller owes the customer said boa AT THEIR DOOR for $140. (Same as saying $140 delivered). So if shipping costs are refunded - seller can keep it. The agreement was $140 delivered.

Scenario C) Boa priced at $100 plus $40 shipping & handling.
>> This is saying that the customer is paying $100 for the animal and $40 for the cost AND EFFORT of shipping the animal. Customer is not paying actual 3rd party shipping costs - but is paying $40 for the seller to get the animal to them. Therefore, if shipping costs get refunded - the seller can keep it.

Now, if it were me, Scenario A is obvious - customer benefits. Good for them. Give them the money. Scenario B is also clear. Scenario C can be a gray area. If I were to unexpectedly benefit from a shipping snafu under Scenario C - I would alert the customer and give them 1/2 the shipping refund so we both win. Even though I could argue I didn't "have to."
 
In all three scenarios, the buyer should have the refund. Regardless of how it is advertised, the buyer paid the shipping. It's like taxes and businesses....when taxes go up, so do prices. The business dooesn't pay taxes, they just collect them from the consumer and pass them on to the government. The same applies here. the seller didn/t pay for shipping, he collected the money from the buyer and forwarded it to the shipper. How is the seller at a loss? He isn't, therefore he shouldn't profit from the buyers inconvenience.
 
kingsnake1 said:
In all three scenarios, the buyer should have the refund. Regardless of how it is advertised, the buyer paid the shipping. It's like taxes and businesses....when taxes go up, so do prices. The business dooesn't pay taxes, they just collect them from the consumer and pass them on to the government. The same applies here. the seller didn/t pay for shipping, he collected the money from the buyer and forwarded it to the shipper. How is the seller at a loss? He isn't, therefore he shouldn't profit from the buyers inconvenience.
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Not to mention... if the seller is running a LEGIT business.... they are writing off shipping costs anyways as a business expense. In most cases its a wash... you have payment for shipping then shipping expenses... most times these cancel out... but if they dont... you can write off the extra expenses. The buyer should have been refunded for the snafu.
 
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