about siklback and their husbandry

[KelliH]

I'm a lot of things, but I'm not an idiot.

Of course you're not. It sounds like you have already had the results verified, which is great.

 

[Tere Salazar]

Oh Sweetie, this has never been about my tests. Lets face it, none of us know what the test results mean, how accurate they are, how many dragons are actually infected or if in fact they are all infected, how could we, there is absolutely zero statistical evidence published to make any hard fast claim about it.
Further, I have never said I was adeno free or that I was 100% negative, and anyone who knows me knows that. I am trying to establish a negative colony, I'm even trying to locate older colonies that might have negative dragons in them, but its really an academic exercise at this point since no one can tell us what it means.
We knew this was coming, right? I did, I've been expecting it since my very first post to this thread. That's what happens when you voice your opinions sometimes, but its not going to deter me.

You know what? You're trying to locate older colonies that have negative dragons, and I have just spent my evening chatting with the most wonderful man who has EXACTLY what you're looking for. Remind me tomorrow and I'll give you his contact information.

 

[Denisebme]

Of course you're not. It sounds like you have already had the results verified, which is great.

I don't know if the person who has my results ever called the vet, I assume I'll find out tomorrow, but they all the information they need to do it. I've been looking for the PM's that were forwarded to me from Dennis, but I can't find them. I didn't know him at all at the time, and actually had someone else contact him for me to ask him to either look at my results or talk to my vet, or suggest another course of action. Since I can't find the messages, I can't swear to exactly what Dennis said, but my best recollection was that he said he would if necessary speak to my vet, but he suggested that a better course of action might be to send someone on the other side of the conflict but unconnected with any of the major players in it a copy of the results. I then offered my results to two people, one of them was Varnyard, the other name I am not going to mention unless I have his permission to drag him into this mess.
Several people can verify that while my name and reputation were being smeared on the BOI, I was actively trying to find a way to verify my results that would not result in actually publicly posting a hard copy of them. I didn't really know anyone here that well except for Tere and we all know what would have happened if I had sent the copies to her.

 

[Tere Salazar]

I don't know if the person who has my results ever called the vet, I assume I'll find out tomorrow, but they all the information they need to do it. I've been looking for the PM's that were forwarded to me from Dennis, but I can't find them. I didn't know him at all at the time, and actually had someone else contact him for me to ask him to either look at my results or talk to my vet, or suggest another course of action. Since I can't find the messages, I can't swear to exactly what Dennis said, but my best recollection was that he said he would if necessary speak to my vet, but he suggested that a better course of action might be to send someone on the other side of the conflict but unconnected with any of the major players in it a copy of the results. I then offered my results to two people, one of them was Varnyard, the other name I am not going to mention unless I have his permission to drag him into this mess.
Several people can verify that while my name and reputation were being smeared on the BOI, I was actively trying to find a way to verify my results that would not result in actually publicly posting a hard copy of them. I didn't really know anyone here that well except for Tere and we all know what would have happened if I had sent the copies to her.

I might have shoved them right up where the sun don't shine...and not on myself, either!

 

[Dennis Hultman]

I don't know if the person who has my results ever called the vet, I assume I'll find out tomorrow, but they all the information they need to do it. I've been looking for the PM's that were forwarded to me from Dennis, but I can't find them. I didn't know him at all at the time, and actually had someone else contact him for me to ask him to either look at my results or talk to my vet, or suggest another course of action. Since I can't find the messages, I can't swear to exactly what Dennis said, but my best recollection was that he said he would if necessary speak to my vet, but he suggested that a better course of action might be to send someone on the other side of the conflict but unconnected with any of the major players in it a copy of the results. I then offered my results to two people, one of them was Varnyard, the other name I am not going to mention unless I have his permission to drag him into this mess.
Several people can verify that while my name and reputation were being smeared on the BOI, I was actively trying to find a way to verify my results that would not result in actually publicly posting a hard copy of them. I didn't really know anyone here that well except for Tere and we all know what would have happened if I had sent the copies to her.

That’s basically what I stated. I could of viewed the results and posted the information but without actually giving the Vet details, lab and other information it would hardly quell a negative inquiry on the BOI. I suggested sending the information to someone that disbelieved or doubted her results publicly but was honest and if asked not to mention the specifics that she didn’t want mentioned the person would respect those wishes.

 

[Denisebme]

That’s basically what I stated. I could of viewed the results and posted the information but without actually giving the Vet details, lab and other information it would hardly quell a negative inquiry on the BOI. I suggested sending the information to someone that disbelieved or doubted her results publicly but was honest and if asked not to mention the specifics that she didn’t want mentioned the person would respect those wishes.

I thank you again for being willing to help someone you didn't know from Adam. I actually followed your advice to the letter.

 

[Drache613]

Hello

Hello,

WOW, you all sure know how to pick on Denise yet again. She has been nothing but honest & upfront with everyone. She doesn't need to go through the mill again, & neither does Tere.
I have to say that I agree in the fact that no matter how things turn out on this particular thread, that you larger scale breeders need to realize that if there aren't some type of standards set for quality of dragons, that there will be NO dragons. Bert is right, inbred dragons are weaker dragons, which will make them more vulnerable to disease & infection.
It disgusts me to see good people attacked all because they have tried to take a stand, it gets nothing accomplished. It is no wonder that none of the vets want to help because of attacks on them. I don't blame them one bit, that is what they get for trying to help? You should have minded your own business, Vickie. That is very unethical to drag someone through the mud like that to try & make yourself look better. It doesn't work. You definitely owe Denise an apology, you have done quite enough to her. While you are at it, Tere deserves one too after what you put her through as well. There are quite a few issues that you should straighten out before readily trying to run people over for your benefit. That is just plain, well, just MEAN!
If you & Alessandro could have gotten your story & facts straight initially, this thread probably wouldn't have turned out so badly. We all deserve answers & the dragons deserve the best care we can give them, as well as a promising future. We chose them, they didn't choose to be brought up in captivity. So far I would say we aren't doing the greatest by them.
Breeding for greed is unacceptable to me, especially if it harnesses negativity from so many hobbyists & other breeders, not just here in the US but worldwide. It isn't just bearded dragons, either, but other species. We have no right to exploit an animal to the point of it being so "different" that it is no longer the "same". I am sure you have read other threads where people are concerned with inbreeding of other species, so, it is no secret.
I will say again that I am concerned about who would get their hands on this animal. We all see that so many conventional dragons have subpar care so the silkback would probably no doubt, fall into the hands of people who don't know how to provide adequate care as well. That isn't something that I want to happen because so many innocent dragons would die. You know, money isn't everything! I have a strong feeling that Bert & Steve Irwin (if he was alive) would agree on every aspect of this.
I don't have anything to lose here so that is why I don't care who wants to judge me or badmouth me, it really doesn't matter to me. My concern is for the dragons, & that is it, nothing else. I personally can't imagine my future without one.

I hope that things get resolved soon.

Tracie

 

[Valley Dragons]

Okay, so please put this on a kindergarten level for me....did Denise's results get verified by someone of unbiased view (such as Dennis or Kelli) or not?

I really don't think this is picking on Denise...I think people just want facts and proof. If you are going to put yourself out there on a public forum and make a strong stand, then you have to have the balls to back up what you claim, imho. If it were me, I would have a hard-copy posted on my website where everyone could see the results and form their own opinion (sorry if this has already been done).

Jamie

 

[Tere Salazar]

They have already been sent to someone, Jamie, several months ago, in fact. She is trying to get ahold of that person and see if they're willing to get involved in this mess.

TRANSLATION: BACK THE HELL OFF.

 

[Valley Dragons]

TRANSLATION: BACK THE HELL OFF.

Nice. Thanks for the mature answer to my question.

 

[Ken Harbart]

I would suggest to many of you that you learn to conduct yourselves as rational, mature individuals. Or, if you prefer to act like children, I can easily start treating y'all as such.

The ad hominem and inane rhetoric is getting tiresome at best, folks.

 

[whiskersmom]

Okay, so please put this on a kindergarten level for me....did Denise's results get verified by someone of unbiased view (such as Dennis or Kelli) or not?

I really don't think this is picking on Denise...I think people just want facts and proof. If you are going to put yourself out there on a public forum and make a strong stand, then you have to have the balls to back up what you claim, imho. If it were me, I would have a hard-copy posted on my website where everyone could see the results and form their own opinion (sorry if this has already been done).

Jamie

I have a question; why does it have to be Dennis or kelli that verifies this document? Is there no other respected members on this forum that can be trusted....just Dennis and Kelli?
And....why is it that Vickie get's to make that decision anyways? Who died and left her God?
In my opinion, there are alot of other members that haven't been involved with this thread and are respected and are trustworthy that could do the job.

Valley Dragons, if you read the posts, Denise has already had them verified...it's just a matter of time....people have job's and lives other then this forum. Give it a minute, please.

 

[Valley Dragons]

I have a question; why does it have to be Dennis or kelli that verifies this document? Is there no other respected members on this forum that can be trusted....just Dennis and Kelli?

I threw out these names because they were names that other people suggested. People that we all know (well, or at least are familar with in cyber-world) and respect. I think these documents should be verified by someone who is not taking sides on this isse. Someone with an open mind, who would not be tempted to sway the information to fit his or her own agenda.

Jamie

 

[Valley Dragons]

Valley Dragons, if you read the posts, Denise has already had them verified...it's just a matter of time....people have job's and lives other then this forum. Give it a minute, please.

I'm sorry, I guess I missed that. I'll check back through the posts. I didn't realize that the documents had already been verified...when I asked someone about them earlier, I got my head bit off.

Jamie

 

[mikey]

Valley Dragons, if you read the posts, Denise has already had them verified...

I don't know if the person who has my results ever called the vet, I assume I'll find out tomorrow, but they all the information they need to do it.

Jamie, here's Denise's post if you missed it..

 

[walker75]

Quote
Originally Posted by Saladragon
Further, although I agree that Adenovirus should be a separate issue, in this case, the issue does come into play. You've got an animal that obviously has at least one genetic defect, and you send it into a facility that admittedly has Adenovirus positive animals. Since that particular facility has made it clear that they have no intention of testing to know which animals do or do not have Adenovirus, the potential exists that this genetically flawed animal will come into contact with Adenovirus positive animals, particularly given the lines that are to said to be planned for crossing with the genetically flawed mutant, therefore creating an even weaker animal.


Originally Posted by Dachiu
This has been going on long enough... if I am wrong and you did test through Studio City as you said, who uses Cali Avian, who outsources to VMD - I will apologize. Ive been wrong before, and I have no problems admitting to being wrong again.

There are a handful of respectable people who have been active on this thread that have no reason/desire to "steal" your results Denise... Forward one of them a copy of your negative blood PCR/fecal swab results dated before 1/25/07 for verification.

If Cali Avian or Studio City or VMD verifies your results - I will not only apologize publicly, we will not produce any silkback dragons - ever.
And you know how important $ is to us...

Thanks,
Vickie & Rob


When this is proven that what Denise has said is the truth and has been.

Vicki not only should you apologies in a public forum and to her personally. I think you should test your entire colony and when they come back Positive you should RETIRE from breeding any and all bearded dragons and reptile. The state of the dragon populations have been over breed and weakened you have done nothing to bring what information You had forward to help the reptile community you hide it and still do.

Oh and you want answers from Denise and you yourself get away from answering any that have been asked of you!! SO who are YOU and why do you think your the Queen of bearded dragon breeders. Like I said test your animals and give your results to Denise and Jamie in hopes of helping the bearded dragon community with answers we have been looking for

Oh and when this is proven who will get the silkback that you say will never be breed?

B/C I also do not trust you much

 

[whiskersmom]

 

[Mooing Tricycle]

Vicki not only should you apologies in a public forum and to her personally. I think you should test your entire colony and when they come back Positive you should RETIRE from breeding any and all bearded dragons and reptile. The state of the dragon populations have been over breed and weakened you have done nothing to bring what information You had forward to help the reptile community you hide it and still do.

I second this.

If not retiring from breeding, because i just dont see you doing that... you should Test ALL of your dragons POST those results, and STOP producing those infected animals that includes this years babies. You and all others LIKE you... should be working toward the BETTERMENT of the species as a whole.

 

[Tere Salazar]

I second this.

If not retiring from breeding, because i just dont see you doing that... you should Test ALL of your dragons POST those results, and STOP producing those infected animals that includes this years babies. You and all others LIKE you... should be working toward the BETTERMENT of the species as a whole.

I third it.

Jamie and Ken-

I apologize. Waking up this morning and seeing yet more immediate expectations just set me off. Reminder to self: never post before coffee after a late night.

 

[Tere Salazar]

Bobby Hill (Varnyard) wanted me to post that he's reading and he fourths this, for the good of the animals. The animals should always come first, and it should never be about the money.