about siklback and their husbandry

[puppytoes72]

i didnt re-hash anything.i simply answered someone's question about why we didnt trust vickie.can you answer my question now?

 

[puppytoes72]

Your little jabs are ineffectual and childish. If you think you can run some people away from this topic, you are SADLY mistaken. You do not corner the market on this subject nor do you get to decide who participates in it.
For you to say one person wasn't able to feed their dragons was low, very low and just shows your caliber.
We will stay and post our opinions for as long as humanely possible.

I bet as a child you didn't play fairly.

you are right sherri! dennis,you would rather defend someone that only gives a crap about the money and turn around an attack a girl for making a decision to rehome some beardies so she can take off time from work to take care of her son?? you are lower than low. screw you dennis

 

[whiskersmom]

No, what I find hard to understand is that you and Michele have pressed so hard that they respond about this mutation that when they do the only question you could muster up after their responses is if Vicki was lying about how many silkies she received or rehashing the inbreeding question that has been answered on three threads now.Which brings us right back to why the other thread was closed.
That is where this was one is heading too.

Once again, the AV subject only came up when a fan of dachius was asking why there was discord between some people and the Dachius. The question was answered.

As for me asking that question, I'm sorry if I'm not as expert at inbreeding as you but I didn't understand how the two statements could correlate. Now I do. And I still stand on the principle that inbreeding is wrong and it just so happens that I have found a big, quite big breeder of reptiles that won't even buy from this country because he's afraid of the tiny little gene pool. Which we so happily keep making smaller.
So I'm not the only one.

Honestly, did you think Alessandro and Vickie could come here and talk about the silks like some people talk about underwear and no one would question the ethics of inbreeding? Get real. Of course we're going to bring up inbreeding...it took place.

 

[Dennis Hultman]

you are right sherri! dennis,you would rather defend someone that only gives a crap about the money and turn around an attack a girl for making a decision to rehome some beardies so she can take off time from work to take care of her son?? you are lower than low. screw you dennis

That is where we differ. You look at it as defending Vicki. I don't. I'm not defending her but addressing this one issue. This is exactly what I was trying to point out about the weight of the arguments against this mutation are soured because you are more interested in attacking Vicki then addressing the mutations ability to thrive in captivity.

I look at each issue on a independent basis. I have good reputation for fairness and honesty. You can call me all the names you want. That's fine but it still stands that both of you took positions from ignorance since the start of all this that was very harsh. You made determinations before knowing any husbandry information and without any facts from the breeders.
One claiming animal abuse and the other disrespecting the site and its super moderators whom were enforcing the rules.

But hey, you both have insured that the information that could have been forthcoming here will be less informative than it could have been.
Why would anyone bother if the snide remarks keep coming.

 

[puppytoes72]

snide comments dennis? you take the cake with this one- "someone that couldnt feed their dragon 6 months ago".do you have anything to say about that? how does that have anything to do with the issue at hand? you are pathetic.im off to bed.

 

[walker75]

Honestly, did you think Alessandro and Vickie could come here and talk about the silks like some people talk about underwear and no one would question the ethics of inbreeding? Get real. Of course we're going to bring up inbreeding...it took place.



6 months ago I asked some real good questions of the Dachiu's!! They never answered nor tried to answer. The reason I asked was to give the Dachiu's and others a reason to say what the future holds. What is apparent is that they will kept secret anything they feel they can and must till the time is right then QHAM it hits the internet. How are people suppose to react??? Dachiu does amongst other breeders have a well publicise name.

I and others look towards them to lead and give answers to things that they do know about such as Andeo. I am sure they have had mass die offs and have purged them or tried to from there colony and they are not alone in this action..
People looks towards the so call major breeders as if all everything they do is correct and justified. It has been proven they are wrong,

Many good hearted and well intended people have been devastated by this Virus, at the same time many will not come forward on their own.

I really do wish the Dachiu's would participate in the research that Cali Dragons and Valley Dragons have taken up on their web sites .
If Dachiu would show the lead in trying to help us the reptile community to future our knowledge on the Adenovirus and also the Silkback Dragon I am sure many many more people would come forward. we would beable to get some answers

 

[Tere Salazar]

So what you are saying is only breeders are allowed to have concerns whether this practice should be done? And who was it that couldn't feed their dragons six months ago? What does any of that have to do with this thread?

And by the way, buddy, all concerns are legitimate, no matter what your lord and highness thinks.

He was referring to me, ladies. Yes, after I had quit my job to care for my son and attempt to get him proper care...yet again...we hit some fairly large roadbumps. There was about 10 days I think (sorry but I didn't bother to write it down) that my dragons all went without bugs. They had nothing but salads. When that happened, I was already working on rehoming a good number of the dragons, and was still working on rehoming some more.

Yes, I probably should have started rehoming them sooner, but under the circumstances, I did the best I could.

Shortly thereafter, I got the job of my dreams, where I could work from home and homeschool my kids. Due to my son's disease, this has proven to be the best alternative for him. I wouldn't change the choice I made, except for the fact that I unknowingly sent out a bunch of probable AV positive animals in the process.

By the way, Dennis, if I'm not mistaken, again, I didn't write it down, but I do believe that was in late summer/early fall last year...not 6 months ago. Six months ago, I brought in well over $1,000 on my part time job...quite enough to feed my dragons.

You know, you say that you have a reputation for being fair and honest, and until you made that comment, Dennis, I would have agreed.

What you seem to forget, however, is that I have also never been anything but honest, even when faced with some really difficult questions. I'll tell you what, Dennis, the day you deal with what I've dealt with just in the past year, and you do it perfectly, in a way that EVERYONE would approve of, please let me know. Until then, I would appreciate it if you'd forgive me for not doing things exactly as everyone else seems to think I should be.

Give me a freaking break. I'm doing the best I can do.

 

[Dennis Hultman]

Honestly, did you think Alessandro and Vickie could come here and talk about the silks like some people talk about underwear and no one would question the ethics of inbreeding? Get real. Of course we're going to bring up inbreeding...it took place.



6 months ago I asked some real good questions of the Dachiu's!! They never answered nor tried to answer. The reason I asked was to give the Dachiu's and others a reason to say what the future holds. What is apparent is that they will kept secret anything they feel they can and must till the time is right then QHAM it hits the internet. How are people suppose to react??? Dachiu does amongst other breeders have a well publicise name.

I and others look towards them to lead and give answers to things that they do know about such as Andeo. I am sure they have had mass die offs and have purged them or tried to from there colony and they are not alone in this action..
People looks towards the so call major breeders as if all everything they do is correct and justified. It has been proven they are wrong,

Many good hearted and well intended people have been devastated by this Virus, at the same time many will not come forward on their own.

I really do wish the Dachiu's would participate in the research that Cali Dragons and Valley Dragons have taken up on their web sites .
If Dachiu would show the lead in trying to help us the reptile community to future our knowledge on the Adenovirus and also the Silkback Dragon I am sure many many more people would come forward. we would beable to get some answers

And I agree with you one hundred percent on the virus. I hold the same position as you. I can't disagree.

Honestly, did you think Alessandro and Vickie could come here and talk about the silks like some people talk about underwear and no one would question the ethics of inbreeding? Get real. Of course we're going to bring up inbreeding...it took place.

And this is the point. Nowhere in all of the reptile industry is responsible line breeding a "question" to prove a morph. Every single ad in the snake forum. Every morph had to be proved to sell it as such.

 

[Dennis Hultman]

Your wrong Tere. I would never state such a thing to you. How could you even think that I was speaking of you.

 

[Tere Salazar]

Your wrong Tere. I would never state such a thing to you. How could you even think that I was speaking of you.

Because I'm not stupid, Dennis. There's nobody else on this thread that knowingly had financial problems last year...or six months ago, whatever.

It really doesn't matter anymore, Dennis. None of this even matters anymore. I'll just slink back to my dying dragons now. Thanks for the fun.

 

[Dennis Hultman]

I was merely making a point in regards to both Sherri and Michele experience in regards to their charge of inbreeding to create a morph when they simple don't have the facts. The comment I made was about Michele lacking the knowledge or shall I say being a newbie only six months ago and now she is stating what breeders do to prove out their morphs is wrong. The person has a total lack of knowledge when it comes to genetics.

Originally Posted by puppytoes72
EVERYTHING.its unnatural and wrong to inbreed for a "project" and the almighty dollar

Most every single morph project had to be lined-breed to be proven.

I'm really surprised that you would think I was addressing you.

 

[Dennis Hultman]

Because I'm not stupid, Dennis. There's nobody else on this thread that knowingly had financial problems last year...or six months ago, whatever.

It really doesn't matter anymore, Dennis. None of this even matters anymore. I'll just slink back to my dying dragons now. Thanks for the fun.

I wasn't speaking of money..I was speaking of knowledge...

 

[Dennis Hultman]

The post I was referring to

plz help,my new bd wont eat
i just got my 1st bd and it wont eat,i researched everything b4 i bought it so i think its environment is ok.i tried putting crickets in his home and i also tried feeding him in a seperate tank.its been 24 hours.any suggestions??

It was cheap, immature shoot back. After being called unethical in the other thread. I have never had my ethics questioned here before in regards to the treatment of my animals or myself, business and I'm still a little miffed about it.

I'm still amazed that you would assume I was talking about you.

 

[walker75]

And this is the point. Nowhere in all of the reptile industry is responsible line breeding a "question" to prove a morph. Every single ad in the snake forum. Every morph had to be proved to sell it as such.
__________________

Key word Responsable this is what all this is about !!!

Being responsiveable and having trust in what you are buying as a customer from a supposed Reptable Breeder.. !!!

That what they say is true and they are and have been responsiveable and honest

I also understand linebreeding and all BUT what I can not understand is the continued evasiveness and the direct bullcrap. Really

 

[Tere Salazar]

The post I was referring to



It was cheap, immature shoot back. After being called unethical in the other thread. I have never had my ethics questioned here before in regards to the treatment of my animals or myself, business and I'm still a little miffed about it.

I'm still amazed that you would assume I was talking about you.

Sorry if I misunderstood.

 

[Dennis Hultman]

And this is the point. Nowhere in all of the reptile industry is responsible line breeding a "question" to prove a morph. Every single ad in the snake forum. Every morph had to be proved to sell it as such.
__________________

Key word Responsable this is what all this is about !!!

Being responsiveable and having trust in what you are buying as a customer from a supposed Reptable Breeder.. !!!

That what they say is true and they are and have been responsiveable and honest

I also understand linebreeding and all BUT what I can not understand is the continued evasiveness and the direct bullcrap. Really

Yes, I understand what you are stating. But the argument that I have been making is from a general standpoint. Sherri and Michele are not making that direct argument about Vicki either. They have consistently stated all is wrong with the way any morph is proven out. I'm debating the point of line-breeding not who is doing it.

 

[whiskersmom]

Yes, I understand what you are stating. But the argument that I have been making is from a general standpoint. Sherri and Michele are not making that direct argument about Vicki either. They have consistently stated all is wrong with the way any morph is proven out. I'm debating the point of line-breeding not who is doing it.

That is not what I've been trying to say....have you not seen this so called Bearded Dragon??? IT DOESN'T HAVE SCALES!!!! That would be like someone "line breeding" you and your sister so that your children can be born without skin. When have I ever brought up snakes or geckos? If I have, it was in a general statement. But I will definitely go on record stating that I believe that it's against the laws of nature for relatives to procreate. Period. Now if that makes me a person who doesn't belong in this thread, oh well, sucks to be you....you'll just have to ignore me.
While it is true, I'm not a geneticist or a biologist but neither are any of you. Just because you have been breeding in this manner doesn't mean it is ok or ethical.
I may not have the experience in line breeding but I do have basic intelligence and you insinuating that I or Michele have nothing to bring to the table is wrong. You just don't like what we have to say. And Dennis, I have spoken to breeders that have said that this isn't how they would conduct business. Not every breeder believes in line breeding.....they're just a little smarter then me in coming here.

 

[puppytoes72]

dennis,im really LMAO over here.because my beardie wouldnt eat when i first got her you say "i couldnt feed her 6 months ago"?is that the best you got?? and get it right,it was 9 months ago and btw....you dont have to be a genetics expert to know that breeding close relatives is INBREEDING your head is so far up your butt you cant even think before you speak.

 

[Mooing Tricycle]

I was merely making a point in regards to both Sherri and Michele experience in regards to their charge of inbreeding to create a morph when they simple don't have the facts. The comment I made was about Michele lacking the knowledge or shall I say being a newbie only six months ago and now she is stating what breeders do to prove out their morphs is wrong. The person has a total lack of knowledge when it comes to genetics.


Most every single morph project had to be lined-breed to be proven.

I'm really surprised that you would think I was addressing you.

I understood his comment completely, and did not see it as aimed at you, however hard one tries to make it seem that way. Dennis is nothing but Upstanding, and he does not just make remarks to make them without the facts.

I saw it as sarcasam at best, to a newbie owner trying to get their foot in on something they do not even fully understand. Assumptions dont fly well here at fauna, and ive learned my lesson at that. others should heed that advice

 

[Mooing Tricycle]

That is not what I've been trying to say....have you not seen this so called Bearded Dragon??? IT DOESN'T HAVE SCALES!!!! That would be like someone "line breeding" you and your sister so that your children can be born without skin. When have I ever brought up snakes or geckos? If I have, it was in a general statement. But I will definitely go on record stating that I believe that it's against the laws of nature for relatives to procreate. Period. Now if that makes me a person who doesn't belong in this thread, oh well, sucks to be you....you'll just have to ignore me.
While it is true, I'm not a geneticist or a biologist but neither are any of you. Just because you have been breeding in this manner doesn't mean it is ok or ethical.
I may not have the experience in line breeding but I do have basic intelligence and you insinuating that I or Michele have nothing to bring to the table is wrong. You just don't like what we have to say. And Dennis, I have spoken to breeders that have said that this isn't how they would conduct business. Not every breeder believes in line breeding.....they're just a little smarter then me in coming here.

Theres nothing wrong with your stance on linebreeding. BUT, if linebreeding IS done correctly, again, as i think ive said this three times in this thread now, it can be safe, and offspring can be healthy, with NO problems. Inbreeding can happen naturally in the wild, and the dragons suffer no ill effects.
Now, that does not mean i say it is OK to do on a regular basis, or constantly to brothers and sisters and mothers and fathers, but to prove a morph, or trait out, i can see it as something that can be done. so long as you are 100% responsible about it. Again, another proven point, look at the caulker cays that are in existence DUE to the fact that rio Bravo, and other breeders now are taking care to Extend the genetic pool of these animals without ruining the species in captivity as a whole. it CAN be done.
Again, The dragon community knows next to nothing about these dragons, and now, the only people that can answer have been chased off, so now even more will be left at question, and assumptions made.


Lets stop with the mudslinging, and get to the facts people. ^_-